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post #1 of 23 Old 02-15-2013, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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If you have not tried Sub-woofers in your system, do and you will never go back to a system without them, if they are set up properly. My system has 2 - 18" Gauss Pro Sub-woofers] per side [efficiency 117db @ 1watt/1meter crossed over at 40hz on the high end and go all the way down to 15hz. And have 13" Mid-Bass Woofers per side [efficiency 115db @ 1watt/1meter] crossed over at 100hz on the high end. They are crossed over by 3 mono Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management Systems [2 for the 13" mi-bass woofers & 1 for the 18" sub-woofers] which also comes with a remote to dial in the crossovers volume and many other parameters whenever you like. Also have 10" Sub-Woofers for my center channel & 12" Sub-Woofers for my side/rear surround. I continually adjust the volume control on the Velodyne crossovers because everything you listen to is recorded and mastered differently. With this I can keep the bass blend right where I want it. If you think I am crazy, nuts or don't know what I am talking about, Robert Grost from Cerious Technologies was over for a visit during the holidays and spent an afternoon listening to the system.
My System (system is used for audio & video):
Front Speaker System, Amps & Crossovers: Satellites——Unity Audio [now Cerious Technologies] Concept Satellites [each satellite has a column of 4 - 8" mid-bass drivers]; POWERED by Theta Enterprise Mono Amps 350wpc..........Sub-Woofers——Unity Audio Concept Mid-Woofer System [2 - 13" Audax Pro drivers with efficiency of 115db @ 1watt/1meter]; POWERED by Threshold S/300 Series II Amp 150wpc; WITH 2 Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management Systems [40hz low end and 100hz on the high end]; Unity Audio Concept Sub-Woofer System [2 - 18" Gauss Pro drivers with efficiency of 117db @ 1watt/1meter] per side; WITH 2 Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management System crossed over at 40hz on the high end and go all the way down to 15hz.; POWERED by Mark Levinson Nº 332 Amp 200wpc;..........Center Channel——Unity Audio 7 Satellite; POWERED by Threshold 400A Cascode Amp 100wpc..........Center Channel Woofers——Unity Audio 7 Sub-Woofers [4 - 10" Drivers]; POWERED by Threshold Stasis III Amp 125wpc; CROSSED over with Analog Research Crossover @ 125hz on high end..........Preamp/Processor——Yamaha RX-Z11 [currently using internal dac's--all are 24bit/192kHz high grade dac's] only use Preamp/Processor section [do not use amplifier section]..........CD Player——Bow ZZ-8 CD Player..........HTPC for Blu-ray——ASUS Republic OF Gamers Motherboard; AMD 8 Core Processor @ 3.6ghz per core; 32 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz RAM; 2 XFX AMD Graphics Cards running in Crossfire mode with 4 GB DDR5 RAM; 1000 Watt Power Supply; Liteon 3D Blu-ray Player running PowerDVD 12 Ultra software Main OS is Windows 7; for music I use dBpoweramp for ripping CDs to the Hard Drive encoded in WAV/PCM @ 32bit floating point / 192 kHz; for play back I use JRiver; believe it or not this HTPC Rocks....the Blu-ray picture and sound are the best I have seen and heard in a player under $3000.00...The music with dBpoweramp and JRiver also sounds quite amazing..........Projector——Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080p Projector..........Screen——Cerious Technology/DC Hi Fi Custom 110" 16 x 9..........Video Processor——DVDo Edge High Definition Video Processor & Hub by Anchor Bay..........Surround——Unity Audio Concept side/rear surround speakers; POWERED by Threshold Stasis II Amp 200wpc [side/rear]; RH Labs Sub-Woofers 1 - 12" per channel side/rear modified by DC Hi Fi; POWERED by Threshold 400A Amp 100wpc [side/rear]; CROSSED over by a Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management System @ 125hz; Unity Audio Concept rear surround speakers; POWERED by VSP Labs Gold Edition Trans Mos Amp [modified by Unity Audio]..........Speaker Cables front——main satellites Cerious Technologies Liquid Ceramic; 13" Mid-Bass Woofers, 18" Sub-Woofers, Center Channel and Center Channel 10" Sub-Woofers use DC Hi Fi Chopper [1 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded] wire DC Hi Fi..........Power Cables all——Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic [where separate cables are applicable]..........Speaker Cables Surround——side/rear surround speakers and side/rear surround 12" Sub-Woofers use DC Hi Fi Chopper [1 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded]; wire DC Hi Fi Chopper [1 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded]; Rear surround speakers use DC Hi Fi Black [10 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded]..........Interconnects front——[all cables are single ended with twist lock connecters]: Cerious Technology Fluid Drive Concept from Yamaha RX-Z11 main out to Theta Enterprise Mono Amps [runs full range without crossover interconnection]; Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic jumper cables run from Theta's to Velodyne SMS-1's Crossovers for 13" Mid-Bass; Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic from Velodyne SMS-1's Crossovers for Mid-Bass to Velodyne SMS-1 Crossover for 18" Sub-Woofers..........Interconnects Surround all——DC Hi Fi dac [Silver coated Copper stranded with twist lock connecters]..........Digital Cable——Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic [Bow ZZ-8] ..........HDMI Cables——Audioquest HDMI 3 [6.1% Silver coated] for all HDMI components except from DVDo Processor to Epson Projector. Here I use a large diameter Gefen CL3 Rated Cable for High Speed HDMI
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post #2 of 23 Old 02-15-2013, 04:26 AM
 
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Nice setup. Just out of curiosity, as a first post, where is a reader suppose to go with your above as it reads more like a vanity piece then advice or a question. confused.gif
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post #3 of 23 Old 02-15-2013, 05:35 AM
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A vanity piece complete with Cerious-ly overpriced interconnects, speaker wire and power cords...and a visit from Robert Grost from Cerious Technologies! wink.gif
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post #4 of 23 Old 02-15-2013, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

A vanity piece complete with Cerious-ly overpriced interconnects, speaker wire and power cords...and a visit from Robert Grost from Cerious Technologies! wink.gif
And he claims impossible results from pro-sound drivers from a company that went out of business decades ago. An obvious troll for some Serious snake oil. The Mods should see to it that his first post is also his last.

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #5 of 23 Old 02-15-2013, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dchifi View Post

If you have not tried Sub-woofers in your system, do and you will never go back to a system without them, if they are set up properly. My system has 2 - 18" Gauss Pro Sub-woofers] per side [efficiency 117db @ 1watt/1meter crossed over at 40hz on the high end and go all the way down to 15hz. And have 13" Mid-Bass Woofers per side [efficiency 115db @ 1watt/1meter] crossed over at 100hz on the high end. They are crossed over by 3 mono Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management Systems [2 for the 13" mi-bass woofers & 1 for the 18" sub-woofers] which also comes with a remote to dial in the crossovers volume and many other parameters whenever you like. Also have 10" Sub-Woofers for my center channel & 12" Sub-Woofers for my side/rear surround. I continually adjust the volume control on the Velodyne crossovers because everything you listen to is recorded and mastered differently. With this I can keep the bass blend right where I want it. If you think I am crazy, nuts or don't know what I am talking about, Robert Grost from Cerious Technologies was over for a visit during the holidays and spent an afternoon listening to the system.
My System (system is used for audio & video):
Front Speaker System, Amps & Crossovers: Satellites——Unity Audio [now Cerious Technologies] Concept Satellites [each satellite has a column of 4 - 8" mid-bass drivers]; POWERED by Theta Enterprise Mono Amps 350wpc..........Sub-Woofers——Unity Audio Concept Mid-Woofer System [2 - 13" Audax Pro drivers with efficiency of 115db @ 1watt/1meter]; POWERED by Threshold S/300 Series II Amp 150wpc; WITH 2 Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management Systems [40hz low end and 100hz on the high end]; Unity Audio Concept Sub-Woofer System [2 - 18" Gauss Pro drivers with efficiency of 117db @ 1watt/1meter] per side; WITH 2 Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management System crossed over at 40hz on the high end and go all the way down to 15hz.; POWERED by Mark Levinson Nº 332 Amp 200wpc;..........Center Channel——Unity Audio 7 Satellite; POWERED by Threshold 400A Cascode Amp 100wpc..........Center Channel Woofers——Unity Audio 7 Sub-Woofers [4 - 10" Drivers]; POWERED by Threshold Stasis III Amp 125wpc; CROSSED over with Analog Research Crossover @ 125hz on high end..........Preamp/Processor——Yamaha RX-Z11 [currently using internal dac's--all are 24bit/192kHz high grade dac's] only use Preamp/Processor section [do not use amplifier section]..........CD Player——Bow ZZ-8 CD Player..........HTPC for Blu-ray——ASUS Republic OF Gamers Motherboard; AMD 8 Core Processor @ 3.6ghz per core; 32 GB DDR3 1600 Mhz RAM; 2 XFX AMD Graphics Cards running in Crossfire mode with 4 GB DDR5 RAM; 1000 Watt Power Supply; Liteon 3D Blu-ray Player running PowerDVD 12 Ultra software Main OS is Windows 7; for music I use dBpoweramp for ripping CDs to the Hard Drive encoded in WAV/PCM @ 32bit floating point / 192 kHz; for play back I use JRiver; believe it or not this HTPC Rocks....the Blu-ray picture and sound are the best I have seen and heard in a player under $3000.00...The music with dBpoweramp and JRiver also sounds quite amazing..........Projector——Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080p Projector..........Screen——Cerious Technology/DC Hi Fi Custom 110" 16 x 9..........Video Processor——DVDo Edge High Definition Video Processor & Hub by Anchor Bay..........Surround——Unity Audio Concept side/rear surround speakers; POWERED by Threshold Stasis II Amp 200wpc [side/rear]; RH Labs Sub-Woofers 1 - 12" per channel side/rear modified by DC Hi Fi; POWERED by Threshold 400A Amp 100wpc [side/rear]; CROSSED over by a Velodyne SMS-1 Digital Subwoofer Management System @ 125hz; Unity Audio Concept rear surround speakers; POWERED by VSP Labs Gold Edition Trans Mos Amp [modified by Unity Audio]..........Speaker Cables front——main satellites Cerious Technologies Liquid Ceramic; 13" Mid-Bass Woofers, 18" Sub-Woofers, Center Channel and Center Channel 10" Sub-Woofers use DC Hi Fi Chopper [1 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded] wire DC Hi Fi..........Power Cables all——Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic [where separate cables are applicable]..........Speaker Cables Surround——side/rear surround speakers and side/rear surround 12" Sub-Woofers use DC Hi Fi Chopper [1 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded]; wire DC Hi Fi Chopper [1 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded]; Rear surround speakers use DC Hi Fi Black [10 gauge Silver coated OFG Copper stranded]..........Interconnects front——[all cables are single ended with twist lock connecters]: Cerious Technology Fluid Drive Concept from Yamaha RX-Z11 main out to Theta Enterprise Mono Amps [runs full range without crossover interconnection]; Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic jumper cables run from Theta's to Velodyne SMS-1's Crossovers for 13" Mid-Bass; Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic from Velodyne SMS-1's Crossovers for Mid-Bass to Velodyne SMS-1 Crossover for 18" Sub-Woofers..........Interconnects Surround all——DC Hi Fi dac [Silver coated Copper stranded with twist lock connecters]..........Digital Cable——Cerious Technology Liquid Ceramic [Bow ZZ-8] ..........HDMI Cables——Audioquest HDMI 3 [6.1% Silver coated] for all HDMI components except from DVDo Processor to Epson Projector. Here I use a large diameter Gefen CL3 Rated Cable for High Speed HDMI

There's a better forum for you: http://www.audioasylum.com/index.htm

The opening page says it all: "Welcome the the Asylum!" eek.gif

You'll find many more like-minded individuals over there.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

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post #6 of 23 Old 02-15-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dchifi View Post

Processor to Epson Projector.

All that money invested and you run an Epson projector. tongue.gif
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There's a better forum for you: http://www.audioasylum.com/index.htm

The opening page says it all: "Welcome the the Asylum!" eek.gif

You'll find many more like-minded individuals over there.

Craig

Word. smile.gif

Achievement Unlocked

Psychotic Episode Averted

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post #7 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Look at the top paragraph in my post. All I am saying is that if you pick the right equipment you can have an awesome woofer system. I have been building this system since 1978. With the help of the AudioMart. Do any of you remember the AudioMart? If you have not than you are either to young or you have way more money than I did or have at present. When eBay and the internet came along, the AudioMart went away. Then a little later AudiogoN appeared on the internet. Those classified publications are how I built my system. Robert Grost owner of Unity Audio now Cerious Technologies has been my best friend for the last 35 years. Being best friends gets me allot of perks, the cable for instance, some is passed model, some he built for me special and the rest is concept/prototype cable. The Unity Audio loudspeakers are all concept/prototypes. The front satellites are huge, a customer he was building then for backed out of the deal after Robert had finished cutting the cabinets out. Since it was a custom cabinet build, he was stuck with then. I talked to him about the cabinet pieces and we made a deal. It took me almost 10 years to finish them. Someone made the implication that the Gauss 18" driver wasn't a very good. That set of woofers was built in 1985 and I have never had to replace a driver. By the way with their efficiency and how low in frequency they go, they are still incredible today [15hz @ 117db 1watt/1meter]. If I had to replace these woofers today, I would try to find a deal on something like the 18" RE XXX Car woofers. Why, because their "free air resonance" value is around 18hz. The 13" mid-woofer cabinets were drawn out for me by Robert and I built them. The DC Hi Fi Chopper 1 gauge wire I purchased off from eBay. It was listed as Military Spec wire from a Military Helicopter. I bought 3 big spools, 2 were 1 gauge and 1 spool was 0 gauge [750' total for $500.00 freight included]. It's all Silver coated OFG stranded Copper. Now, you go on eBay to buy bulk wire like I purchased and you can't find it unless it's by the foot. I have never paid retail for any piece of equipment. I received a tip from a guy of all places Yamaha support that Crutchfield was selling the Yamaha RX-Z11 Receiver for $2500.00 freight included [MSRP $5500.00]. I just sold the Yamaha RX-3800 I owned, so I purchased the RX-Z11 [good timing, that's all]. I was looking for an Amp on eBay and AudiogoN to replace one that was damaged through a series of power surges paid for by my insurance. I found an ad on AudiogoN for a brand new pair of Theta Enterprise Mono Amps for $4200.00 [MSRP $12,500.00]. I thought, no way this guy was a fraud, I called him and he said he is a Dealer for Theta. So, I called Theta, they knew him and said he was a Theta dealer. I bought the amps and they were shipped to me right from Theta. My Son and I built the HTPC "Republic of Gamers" computer by ourselves for $2000.00. Best Blu-ray player I have seen and heard for under $3000.00. You can't buy this same setup from any pre-built computer gaming company for less than $4000.00. The Velodyne Digital Crossovers are awesome. I have spent from $225.00 to $325.00 [MSRP $750.00] on eBay and AudiogoN. The system in my post did not cost as much as you may think. I was lucky, resourceful and did allot of work myself.
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post #8 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 05:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dchifi View Post

The system in my post did not cost as much as you may think. I was lucky, resourceful and did allot of work myself.

As to the thread's title and your introductory comment, it's safe to say, anybody who comes to these pages to read or post are subwoofer oriented. Allow me to again ask, including your second post, where am I, the reader, suppose to go with your introductory post? confused.gif

If just an introductory comrade comment; Welcome! biggrin.gif

By comparison, our system is a contemporary system who's intended purpose is to provide a theater grade sound field where the listener won't notice anything other than the 60" TV as everything else is intended to blend into the decor's background. Currently, the least noticeable components are the subwoofers but as you suggest in your introductory comment, "properly" set up, they are surprisingly there.

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post #9 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 05:41 AM
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It would really help if you knew how to use paragraphs.
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post #10 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 06:15 AM
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It would really help if you knew how to use paragraphs.
It would also add to your credibility if you stopped posting things that are impossible to achieve, such as
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By the way with their efficiency and how low in frequency they go, they are still incredible today [15hz @ 117db 1watt/1meter]
Assuming they're not loaded in horns the size of a garage that figure is overstated by at least 25dB. Your speakers can't break the laws of physics, and neither can cables.

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #11 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 06:23 AM
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knock it off please
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post #12 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Are forums about insults on grammar. I thought this was about exchanging information. I write most of my posts in Word then copy and paste. I do know how to write paragraphs.
I didn't realize this would become such an issue. I thought this was a forum for Audio/Video.
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post #13 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Bill Fitzmaurice
Robert Grost is a genius when designing Sub-Woofer cabinets. He engineered a cabinet for the installation of 2 drivers using a calculated tuned labyrinth from the specifications of the drivers. In his design it increases the internal volume without building a huge cabinet. All of his sub-woofer designs are of this type. As a result of his design it loads the drivers to each other. This cabinet design really kicks butt!
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post #14 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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I do know how to write paragraphs.
I didn't realize this would become such an issue.

Only in the sense of paragraph breaks aiding in the reader's ability to read and comprehend what's being presented. If it helps, think of a lack of paragraph breaks as one might see run on sentence structure. All of which lends itself to "readability" of the much appreciated content.
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post #15 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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With any sub-woofer system assuming your amplifier and crossover are a good fit sonically you can make them disappear.
I use Velodyne Digital Crossovers because they have so many parameters that you can adjust. And they come with a remote to adjust the volume during playback. That's the beauty of being able to raise and lower the volume during playback. You can make the woofers disappear or turn them up for a little for more impact.
I use Threshold Amps because they make very good bass amps and they are fairly inexpensive. I have used the older version of the Bryston 4B amp. Two of the 4B's in mono make one incredible bass amp. However, the older 4B's are way more expensive than they use to be.
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post #16 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dchifi View Post

jchong
Are forums about insults on grammar. I thought this was about exchanging information. I write most of my posts in Word then copy and paste. I do know how to write paragraphs.
I didn't realize this would become such an issue. I thought this was a forum for Audio/Video.
Sounds like a cool setup, do you have any pics?
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post #17 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 11:04 AM
 
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BeeMan458
With any sub-woofer system assuming your amplifier and crossover are a good fit sonically you can make them disappear.

Sorry for the confusion. In this case, when I posted about the subwoofers not being noticeable, I was posting in the literal in that they're hidden behind a couple of great chairs so in a sense, they've disappeared and one will be surprised by their hidden existence. The complexity of your system is way beyond that of what we use to create a sound field with and nothing I've done will meet the approval of anybody as it's purposefully setup in an asymmetrical fashion. Overall, our results are, to me, absolutely amazing to listen to and we're quite please with our asymmetrical results. biggrin.gif

Overall, it sounds like you had a boatload of fun setting your system up (especially the custom cabinet aspect) and yes, indeed, if able, pictures are always an appreciated treat. On our end, we purposefully don't have imaging capability so I'm not able to reciprocate.
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post #18 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dchifi View Post

Bill Fitzmaurice
Robert Grost is a genius when designing Sub-Woofer cabinets. He engineered a cabinet for the installation of 2 drivers using a calculated tuned labyrinth from the specifications of the drivers. In his design it increases the internal volume without building a huge cabinet. All of his sub-woofer designs are of this type.!
Even Einstein cannot break the laws of physics. What you claim is impossible. If you have measurable repeatable results by all means show them.

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #19 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 12:53 PM
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Hey is there a discount code for the website? Im a little short on cash this week but i really want to order the floorstanding speakers that are $32,000. Thanks.
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post #20 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I built my room from the basement of a living room addition. Measurements are 28'L X 15.5'W. I did not build the room to be luxurious or pretty. The room was designed by me to be as dead as I could get it on a budget. I did not hide anything. Its a man cave and I want to see as much of the equipment as possible.
The front wall and 3/4 of the side walls are concrete. Since the floor was concrete, I laid 2x4s wide side up and sub-floored with 3/4" OSB. Then laid thick carpet.
I added 2x4 stud to the concrete walls, installed 3 1/2" Fiberglass insulation to the stud walls. I searched and found this material called Techtum [used in schools to deaden the walls and ceilings]. One of the dimensions offered was 2' X 8' X 3/4". This was perfect, because I could install it like paneling.
Since the room is under the living room, I wanted to keep as much noise as possible from going through the ceiling. I stuffed 9 1/2" fiberglass bats of insulation in the 2" X 10" floor joists. Then I installed 2 1/2" X 4' X 8' sheets of Styrofoam to the ceiling, left a 4" air space, then installed a drop ceiling using 2' X 2' X 3/4" compressed fiberglass tiles. The front wall where the main speakers and sub-woofers are, I built another stud wall using 2' X 6" studs inside the Techtum wall and installed 4" of Sonex. Sonex runs all the way acrossed the front wall 15.5' and 8' down the side walls.
And the room sounds great.
These pictures were taken with my Samsung S III cell. When I get a chance I will take more picture with my Nikon.

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post #21 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 01:40 PM
 
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That's an amazing amount of effort. Makes me happy I didn't try to post any images. tongue.gif

And how does it sound? When the credits roll at the end of the movie, are you getting magic from your sound field?
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post #22 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 04:19 PM
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Snake oil, is that better than Canola oil for cooking?

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post #23 of 23 Old 02-16-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

Snake oil, is that better than Canola oil for cooking?
Yeah, it's got more of a bite to it smile.gif
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