Paradigm Monitor SUB 8 or SVS PB1000? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm deciding between these two subs. Which one will I be happier with? I plan to run a pair of Paradigm Atom Monitors (anything wrong with these) and just have a simple 2.1 channel set up. But I need help with choosing a sub. The Paradigm is 8" and 300w, and the SVS is 10" and 300w and less expensive. Any reason not to go with the SVS? Thanks for any help. And also feel free to give some input on the Paradigm Atom Monitors. This system will be going into my dorm (11x14, mostly filled with loft, couch, desk, wardrobes). It's carpeted too. I'm mainly a car audio guy, but I would like to be able to jam out in my dorm as well.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 09:44 AM
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Easy choice: the PB-1000. It should dig deeper and play louder / hit harder than the SUB 8.

The more-compact SB-1000 will likely also outperform the SUB 8.
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post #3 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Easy choice: the PB-1000.

Awesome. Thanks for the fast reply. Any input on my choice of the Atom Monitors?
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post #4 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 09:49 AM
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The Atoms have always been well-rated smaller speakers. I think they're a good choice. smile.gif
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post #5 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

The Atoms have always been well-rated smaller speakers. I think they're a good choice. smile.gif

Awesome, good to hear. How about a nice little 2 channel receiver/amp? I'm looking for SQ on a budget. Under $350 if possible. Don't want to spend over $1000 on my system.
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post #6 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:11 AM
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IMO, you get better value from an AVR. Consider something like the Denon AVR-1612 ($289 on Amazon.com): It's well-equipped, including Audyssey MultEQ room correction software that will automatically calibrate and equalize your system (speakers + sub) to the room its in.
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post #7 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, you get better value from an AVR. Consider something like the Denon AVR-1612 ($289 on Amazon.com): It's well-equipped, including Audyssey MultEQ room correction software that will automatically calibrate and equalize your system (speakers + sub) to the room its in.

I've looked at that receiver before. I was just told that 5 channel receivers that are the same price as 2 channel receivers use lower quality parts (because, well, they need to drive 5 instead of 2).
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post #8 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:23 AM
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Seems like a generalization, although I don't doubt that some (many?) stereo receivers are better built than comparably-priced AVRs.

That said:
- the 1612 is a nice entry-level AVR that will have no trouble driving your speakers;
- MultEQ auto-calibration is (IMO) a very useful feature; and
- should you ever want to pump your system up to 3.1 or 5.1, you won't need to buy a multi-channel AVR.

smile.gif
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post #9 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Seems like a generalization, although I don't doubt that some (many?) stereo receivers are better built than comparably-priced AVRs.

That said:
- the 1612 is a nice entry-level AVR that will have no trouble driving your speakers;
- MultEQ auto-calibration is (IMO) a very useful feature; and
- should you ever want to pump your system up to 3.1 or 5.1, you won't need to buy a multi-channel AVR.

smile.gif

Ok thanks. I do like the idea of the MultEQ, since a fully loaded dorm room is abnormally small. Not a bad price either. And I can use it with my TV too. Sounds good. Thanks for the input. I was reading on another thread that the PB1000 weighs 47lbs, and the SB1000 weighs 27lbs. Where is that extra 20lbs coming from? Just a larger enclosure?
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post #10 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:52 AM
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Most likely from the larger cabinet:
- SB-1000: 13" x 13" x 13"
- PB-1000: 18.4" x 15" x 18.4"
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post #11 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Most likely from the larger cabinet. The SB-1000 is a pretty compact sub (13" x 13" x 13").


Any idea how the PB1000 will compare to my ported box Alpine 12" Type R on 500rms in my car?
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post #12 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:54 AM
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Any idea how the PB1000 will compare to my ported box Alpine 12" Type R on 500rms in my car?
Nope! smile.gif
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post #13 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Nope! smile.gif

haha. Wasnt expecting you to have much to say there. I'll ask the car audio guys what they think of the PB1000 haha.
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post #14 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 10:59 AM
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Looks like eljaycanuck gave you lots of good advice already. smile.gif

Yes. The PB-1000 is a much bigger sub, and thus heavier. If you want to pressurize your room like a car sub can, go for the PB-1000. Has much higher output. But then again, the SB-1000 should be a little bit tighter, cleaner bass and certainly would take up less room.

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post #15 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Looks like eljaycanuck gave you lots of good advice already. smile.gif

Yes. The PB-1000 is a much bigger sub, and thus heavier. If you want to pressurize your room like a car sub can, go for the PB-1000. Has much higher output. But then again, the SB-1000 should be a little bit tighter, cleaner bass and certainly would take up less room.

I'm a bass head. Only choice it to go ported smile.gif
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post #16 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:07 AM
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Looks like eljaycanuck gave you lots of good advice already. smile.gif
What? Wait a minute, I was doing my best to BS him! confused.gif

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post #17 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:12 AM
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I'm late to this conversations but

1) The PB1000 is an excellent sub, great bang for buck, unsurpassed customer service, and world class warranty/support. You can't go wrong with this choice. It will work great for your room if you really want to "jam out". Car audio is a different beast, in that the challenges of making a good sub for a home requires slightly different priorities. For home theater, the emphasis is on offering clean *very* deep bass (<30Hz) that is needed for modern soundtracks (not really as important for music, very little subsonics in music) while being able to blend well with your main speakers.

2) Paradigm Atom Monitor. These are one of the great gems in a entry level bookshelf speaker. They've been around for decades (?) now and they keep selling boatloads of them for the reason they do exactly what you want a good speaker to be: accurate, clear sound.

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post #18 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Looks like eljaycanuck gave you lots of good advice already. smile.gif

Yes. The PB-1000 is a much bigger sub, and thus heavier. If you want to pressurize your room like a car sub can, go for the PB-1000. Has much higher output. But then again, the SB-1000 should be a little bit tighter, cleaner bass and certainly would take up less room.

Hey, just noticed you're from GR. I'm from East Lansing. I'll be going to Ferris State (honors program). What are some good shops around our areas? Have you heard of Kazoo Audio in Kalamazoo?
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post #19 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I'm late to this conversations but

1) The PB1000 is an excellent sub, great bang for buck, unsurpassed customer service, and world class warranty/support. You can't go wrong with this choice. It will work great for your room if you really want to "jam out". Car audio is a different beast, in that the challenges of making a good sub for a home requires slightly different priorities. For home theater, the emphasis is on offering clean *very* deep bass (<30Hz) that is needed for modern soundtracks (not really as important for music, very little subsonics in music) while being able to blend well with your main speakers.

2) Paradigm Atom Monitor. These are one of the great gems in a entry level bookshelf speaker. They've been around for decades (?) now and they keep selling boatloads of them for the reason they do exactly what you want a good speaker to be: accurate, clear sound.

Thanks for your input! Yeah, I was blown away when I saw that it plays well at 19hz! My car sub can go down to the low 30's, then serious cut off.
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post #20 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:20 AM
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One more thing: I recommend a HT receiver over a stereo receiver in that

1) you get Audyssey. I will never buy another receiver without this feature. It can help solve problems that would have required a lot of acoustics treatments in a room. There is no substitute for proper placement of speakers and proper room treatment, but Audyssey can really help turn a problematic sitatuation into something that works well, especially for the sub channel (it also works on calibrating the sub) which is especially problematic.

2) You get bass management which manages the redirection of frequencies to your sub and mains. With many stereo receiver, you have to run your mains full range and blend your sub manually. WIth a HT receiver, you adjust the crossover frequency and it manages it for you

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post #21 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Looks like eljaycanuck gave you lots of good advice already. smile.gif

Yes. The PB-1000 is a much bigger sub, and thus heavier. If you want to pressurize your room like a car sub can, go for the PB-1000. Has much higher output. But then again, the SB-1000 should be a little bit tighter, cleaner bass and certainly would take up less room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

What? Wait a minute, I was doing my best to BS him! confused.gif

biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I'm late to this conversations but

1) The PB1000 is an excellent sub, great bang for buck, unsurpassed customer service, and world class warranty/support. You can't go wrong with this choice. It will work great for your room if you really want to "jam out". Car audio is a different beast, in that the challenges of making a good sub for a home requires slightly different priorities. For home theater, the emphasis is on offering clean *very* deep bass (<30Hz) that is needed for modern soundtracks (not really as important for music, very little subsonics in music) while being able to blend well with your main speakers.

2) Paradigm Atom Monitor. These are one of the great gems in a entry level bookshelf speaker. They've been around for decades (?) now and they keep selling boatloads of them for the reason they do exactly what you want a good speaker to be: accurate, clear sound.

The guys over on the caraudio forum I use are recommending me to buy a 500w plate amp and then a car audio sub and build my own box. They say it will blow away that PB-1000.

Here is a link to the thread: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/home-audio-video/568578-how-does-home-audio-sub-compare-my-cars-set-up.html
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post #22 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

One more thing: I recommend a HT receiver over a stereo receiver in that

1) you get Audyssey. I will never buy another receiver without this feature. It can help solve problems that would have required a lot of acoustics treatments in a room. There is no substitute for proper placement of speakers and proper room treatment, but Audyssey can really help turn a problematic sitatuation into something that works well, especially for the sub channel (it also works on calibrating the sub) which is especially problematic.

2) You get bass management which manages the redirection of frequencies to your sub and mains. With many stereo receiver, you have to run your mains full range and blend your sub manually. WIth a HT receiver, you adjust the crossover frequency and it manages it for you

1) The Denon 1612 I was looking at has Audyssey as well.

2) Are you just talking about phase matching?
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post #23 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:25 AM
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2) Are you just talking about phase matching?
Audyssey adjusts phase (by adjusting relative distances) and levels, and it EQs the speakers + sub for as flat a response as possible at the main listening position.

Here again is the link to the MultEQ page on the Audyssey website.
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post #24 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Audyssey adjusts phase (by adjusting relative distances) and levels, and it EQs the speakers + sub for as flat a response as possible at the main listening position.

Ok thanks. What do you think about buying a plate amp and car audio sub and building my own box? Any reason not to do that? The car audio guys seem to think it would blow away the PB1000.
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post #25 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:29 AM
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If you're handy and patient, there's no reason not to DIY.
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post #26 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

If you're handy and patient, there's no reason not to DIY.

I might just buy a plate amp and test it out with what's in my car now. If it's something I like, then I'll go through with it. If not, I can just return the plate amp.
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post #27 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:34 AM
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DIY is a very good way of getting more bang for the buck than a commercial offering.

However, I’d still choose the SVS because

they sweated the details in tuning it. While we haven’t seen the PB1000 measured by an independent source, SVS is very careful to tune their custom DSP amplifier so that it never makes bad noises when pushed. You’ll never hear the sub clipping nor bad port noises because once the sub reaches compression, it behaves cleanly

Look at the larger PB12 http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd/pb12-nsd-measurements specially look at the compression frequency response chart and also its distortion charts. This is as good as it gets. It’s clean (low THD, and the frequency response is flat as a ruler). Thiry amp also has a custom EQ curve to give it the right boost in the lower frequencies that a standard amp won't have. Look at the max long term output chart to see what I mean about clean limiting.

Sure you can build a sub yourself that puts out more dB’s, but will it sound as good? There are probably ways to equal or beat the PB1000, but what are you after? Super high dB's for low bucks or just clean room filling sound?

Buying a SVS is about design, not just slapping a driver into a box. SVS started as couple of guys making DIY subs as well, but their years of experience help shaped their good designs

If you are serious about beating the SVS and making a good sounding sub, go into the DIY part of this forum. I would start there rather than what car audio guys are suggesting.,

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post #28 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

DIY is a very good way of getting more bang for the buck than a commercial offering.

However, I’d still choose the SVS because

they sweated the details in tuning it. While we haven’t seen the PB1000 measured by an independent source, SVS is very careful to tune their custom DSP amplifier so that it never makes bad noises when pushed. You’ll never hear the sub clipping nor bad port noises because once the sub reaches compression, it behaves cleanly

Look at the larger PB12 http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd/pb12-nsd-measurements specially look at the compression frequency response chart and also its distortion charts. This is as good as it gets. It’s clean (low THD, and the frequency response is flat as a ruler). Thiry amp also has a custom EQ curve to give it the right boost in the lower frequencies that a standard amp won't have. Look at the max long term output chart to see what I mean about clean limiting.

Sure you can build a sub yourself that puts out more dB’s, but will it sound as good? There are probably ways to equal or beat the PB1000, but what are you after? Super high dB's for low bucks or just clean room filling sound?

Buying a SVS is about design, not just slapping a driver into a box. SVS started as couple of guys making DIY subs as well, but their years of experience help shaped their good designs

If you are serious about beating the SVS and making a good sounding sub, go into the DIY part of this forum. I would start there rather than what car audio guys are suggesting.,

That's all very helpful info. Thanks. I'll probably just end up with the PB1000 for simplicity's sake.
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post #29 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I went to best buy (just to see what I won't be getting haha). I explained to the salesman that I wanted a budget system for my dorm. He asked if I have a receiver and I said no, but I plan to get a Denon 1612 and he said don't do that because they're crap and everyone returns them. He said I should get a Yamaha. He then showed me a Klipsch 12" 450w sub for $470. I just felt like it sucked. Maybe I was expecting too much but it sounded boomy and had little kick (my Alpine 12" ported @33hz on 500w is waayyyy better). So I'm just wondering what your guys's take on my little experience was. Not to mention I got the impression he had better things to do.
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post #30 of 68 Old 02-27-2013, 02:38 PM
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Hey since I have a similar room size (15'x12' opened into a kitchen) I can give you my 2 cents on the PB-1000. It has performed great for me, I've had no problems and the customer care by SVS is top notch and that's something you won't get from a DIY project. I think it would definitely rock any dorm sized room. However, If you're strictly used to car audio, you may be in for a surprise when you hear it if you haven't heard any other comparable subs. I'm in East Lansing and would be willing to demo for you if you think it would be helpful in your decision. You can PM me if your interested.

Also I don't know what the Best Buy guy was talking about, I have a Denon 1611 and it is more than enough for me, its relatively simple and has all the features I want. Also I believe that 12" klipsch can be had on newegg for 300 or cheaper depending on the sale. I wouldnt put to much into what the guy at best buy said.
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