The best sub to buy for $600 and under!!!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 62 Old 03-11-2013, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the best SUBS that money can buy for about $600 and under. I would like to get the opinions of all of you audiophiles out there and explain which sub within the price range is the best. I would like a sub that won't distort at loud playbacks, can hit low (preferably up to 20hz at least), and that can really shake the room but still sound clean (for the most part). I would also like to know if i can go for two subs instead of one or just stay with one really good sub, and if I have to i can increase my budget if I get a good option. PLEASE NO EPIK SUBS because I have the empire and I'm severely disappointed with how it sounds and I just don't like it at all. Much appreciated and thank you smile.gif
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post #2 of 62 Old 03-11-2013, 10:55 PM
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Goku, maybe you can comment on what you don't like about the Empire? That might help narrow the subs to your liking. After a lot of reading, 2 subs seems to be the way to go in this price range...but you probably won't get down to 20hz.
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post #3 of 62 Old 03-11-2013, 11:17 PM
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Maybe the empire needs to be in a better spot, did you do the sub crawl?

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post #4 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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To me the empire has the punch and the kicks but for some weird reason it doesn't give that rumbling feeling and when it tries to its very inconsistent, plus Joshjp in my current room structure it would be impossible for me to do a sub crawl frown.gif
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post #5 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I know i maybe asking for too much but i would like and all round well playing sub that will give me that sense like I'm at IMAX. To give a better perspective from my side i'm running an onkyo tx-nr609 with f30 klipsch main speakers, c2 klisch center and s2 klipsch surround. my room would be about H11xL15xW15 and i mostly listen to movies and games %90 and music %10.
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post #6 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 12:25 AM
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A lot of people really seem to like the new Rythmik LV12R.
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post #7 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 01:15 AM
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Sorry, but for 600 you aren't going to do better than an Empire. An Empire will have a lot more output than any $600 sub at every single frequency. Double your budget and then you might start getting to subs that can top the empire in deep frequencies, but even those subs will not be able to beat the Empire's upper bass output.
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post #8 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 01:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Output isn't everything but maybe a brand new empire might be good because i bought mine used so maybe thats the problem . Please though i would like for you guys to name other subs that could fit the bill. Thank you
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post #9 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 10:01 AM
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The best bang for $600 is the outlaw lfm-1 ex when on sale for $599 w/free shipping. Assuming it goes on sale again.

As previously posted, you won't get a better new sub than an empire for $600.
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post #10 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 10:09 AM
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How about DIY? You can easily beat any of the mentioned ID subs for $600. lol

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post #11 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 10:13 AM
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Good luck with getting a "NEW" Empire, let us know how that works out for you. I don't know if you've been following whats been going on with Epik but stop by the Epik thread and have a quick read.
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post #12 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 10:22 AM
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If output isn't everything, I would say dual Klipsch RW-12d on sale for $299 at Newegg. You will probably get some room gain depending on your setup to get you between 20-22hz. I agree with the others, the empire should have pretty decent amount of output. From your previous posts though, it only seems like you have availability for one sub location? If that is true maybe your seating position is in a null. Also, there are a couple of used empire's selling right now I believe. Adding a second empire should do the trick as well!
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post #13 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 10:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super3Goku View Post

Please though i would like for you guys to name other subs that could fit the bill.

If a subwoofer isn't dialed into a room's acoustics, you're not going get the best out of your subwoofer system. My recommendation, acquire the ability to measure your room's acoustics and learn how to integrate the subwoofer's output of the sub you do have, into the room's acoustics. Then and only then can I recommend buying another sub as more than likely, there's nothing wrong with the subwoofer you currently have.

As I post, one needs to keep in mind, two subs are better than one sub and three subs are better that two subs and four subs are better than three subs. How many subs one has will depend of the WAF (wife approval factor) and a room's decor; the ability of the room to swallow up two or three subwoofers. More equal caliber subs helps smooth out a room's acoustics but just buying a second sub and randomly placing this second sub in a room is not going guarantee one magically acquires a well integrated subwoofer system.
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post #14 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the intell your words of widom is welcome its just almost impossible to move this thing to even intergrate it, and probably i could just go for duals instead of this huge sub.
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post #15 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:20 AM
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Remember moving your sub by as little as an inch can make a different.
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post #16 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super3Goku View Post

Thank you all for the intell your words of widom is welcome its just almost impossible to move this thing to even intergrate it, and probably i could just go for duals instead of this huge sub.

Integration consists of more than just placement. Integration includes use of parametric settings (filters, phase and volume settings) and use of EQ programs built into a AVR.

Do you have room measuring capability?

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post #17 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super3Goku View Post

Thank you all for the intell your words of widom is welcome its just almost impossible to move this thing to even intergrate it, and probably i could just go for duals instead of this huge sub.

If you want something that rumbles and shakes the room, get the Klipsch RW-12D. I have a single one in my ~2200Sq ft room and it has no problems shaking things off my shelves. 2 of them will do a very good job of getting you closer to the "imax" experiance.

Take others words in here though and try moving the sub around, took me quite a bit of time to find the right spot in my room, and while at first I did not like it i've come to appreciate how much better thigns sounded even witht he RW-12D after moving it back to the original corner spot it had for awhile.

Do you have any sort of EQ on the sub such as audyssey? While I have not owned an epik myslef, it has a lot of praise somong users and reviewers for its output, sound and price point. I doubt you will find a better sub than what you have under 600. As I said if you just want loud and dont mind sacrificing some sound quality that you get with that Empire, two RW-12D's will certainly do the trick.

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post #18 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:08 PM
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That sucks that your not happy with the Empire. What volume setting do you have it set to?
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post #19 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

A lot of people really seem to like the new Rythmik LV12R.

I've ready many a rave review as well. This looks to be a very solid choice at this pricepoint. The outlaw supports are very pleased with their subs as well though. If I were in this market I would go Rythmik.

Shame on the empire, gorilla seems to be very pleased with his.
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post #20 of 62 Old 03-12-2013, 11:41 PM
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OK I read a little more. Why can't you sub crawl? You have to integrate the thing into your room. If you are sitting in a null you could stack a couple submersives and that's not going to fix the problem. Sounds like a configuration problem to me, the empire is supposed to be a solid sub from what I have read.
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post #21 of 62 Old 03-13-2013, 06:03 AM
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You don't have to move the sub to determine if the problerm is a placement issue. All you need to do is walk around the room and if it sounds good in some spots, then it's a placement issue. If it sounds bad everywhere, there's probably something wrong with the sub. If it is a placement issue, you'll have to move it. It's very big and heavy and not easy to move, but it's your only option.
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post #22 of 62 Old 03-13-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

If a subwoofer isn't dialed into a room's acoustics, you're not going get the best out of your subwoofer system. My recommendation, acquire the ability to measure your room's acoustics and learn how to integrate the subwoofer's output of the sub you do have, into the room's acoustics. Then and only then can I recommend buying another sub as more than likely, there's nothing wrong with the subwoofer you currently have.

As I post, one needs to keep in mind, two subs are better than one sub and three subs are better that two subs and four subs are better than three subs. How many subs one has will depend of the WAF (wife approval factor) and a room's decor; the ability of the room to swallow up two or three subwoofers. More equal caliber subs helps smooth out a room's acoustics but just buying a second sub and randomly placing this second sub in a room is not going guarantee one magically acquires a well integrated subwoofer system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Integration consists of more than just placement. Integration includes use of parametric settings (filters, phase and volume settings) and use of EQ programs built into a AVR.

Do you have room measuring capability?

-

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

OK I read a little more. Why can't you sub crawl? You have to integrate the thing into your room. If you are sitting in a null you could stack a couple submersives and that's not going to fix the problem. Sounds like a configuration problem to me, the empire is supposed to be a solid sub from what I have read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

You don't have to move the sub to determine if the problerm is a placement issue. All you need to do is walk around the room and if it sounds good in some spots, then it's a placement issue. If it sounds bad everywhere, there's probably something wrong with the sub. If it is a placement issue, you'll have to move it. It's very big and heavy and not easy to move, but it's your only option.

+1,000,000

You're just not gonna come close to the Empire for $600.
Quote:
If you want something that rumbles and shakes the room, get the Klipsch RW-12D. I have a single one in my ~2200Sq ft room and it has no problems shaking things off my shelves. 2 of them will do a very good job of getting you closer to the "imax" experiance.

According to your measurements, that room is over 17,000 cubic feet eek.gif (assuming 8' ceilings). There is absolutely no chance that one RW-12D "rumbles and shakes" that room - maybe if you had 15-20 of 'em.
Quote:
I know i maybe asking for too much but i would like and all round well playing sub that will give me that sense like I'm at IMAX.

I'd suggest placing the Empire near field (very close to the listening position, like directly behind your chair/couch) if you're looking for that IMAX experience - the sub will make your seat rumble when placed near field and it sounds like that's exactly what you're looking for.
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post #23 of 62 Old 03-13-2013, 09:49 AM
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According to his measurements I get 2,475 cubic feet.

I agree with the other posters you need to figure out what your problem is before just buying another sub. Figure out if its a bad sub, or bad placement, or if your room is just the problem. You have a square room which is the worst for standing waves. So you probably have some frequencies that are so over exaggerated and some that are completely canceled out and some that are just overpowered by the exaggerated frequencies. That being said try a nearfield position. Also maybe try buying 2 - $500-$600 subs and placing them at different locations to even out the response.

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post #24 of 62 Old 03-13-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

According to his measurements I get 2,475 cubic feet.

I know I'm bad at math, but I'm not that bad am I??

2200 sq. ft. x 8' = 17,600 cu. ft.

I do assume that his room is not 2200 sq. ft. and that was a typo - that would be one huge-a** room!
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post #25 of 62 Old 03-13-2013, 10:10 AM
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Wait - your talking about the OP - I get it now! biggrin.gif

I was talking to the guy that claims his RW-12D "rumbles" his 17k cu. ft. room. wink.gif
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post #26 of 62 Old 03-14-2013, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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What does everyone think about the lava sub?
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post #27 of 62 Old 03-14-2013, 04:16 AM
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I posted this last night on another thread...

I had the Lava about 2 years ago. It was my first subwoofer purchase for HT in more than a decade. At the time, i was very limited as to what I could buy financially. There were many skeptics as to its performance, but one member on here who is pretty well respected (I think it was Counsil) gave it a pretty good review. That coupled with the fact that I was willing to give my money to a new company trying to break into a otherwise crowded market was what sealed it for me. While I had nothing to compare it to, I found it to be a good sub for HT for everyday use, ESPECIALLY for the money, and PROVIDED you weren't looking for a flat response below 25hz and crazy output. FWIW, I did register 95db on a 24hz test tone from my LP which was about 7 feet from the sub. The other thing that I noticed, was that I never experienced port chuffing no matter how loud I wanted to go, it just didnt get any louder. I ended up getting another so I had co-located duals for under $600.

I since upgraded to an Empire (which was BIG, and very good sub, and then upgraded again to a passive JTR Captivator (which is on another level all together) so I clearly understand now what a true HT sub with crazy output is. That said, while I have never heard the Klipsch, I dont think you will be unhappy with the Lava. Post up when you get yours.

(End other thread)

Like others have said, you won't find anything close to the output ability of the Empire for 600 bucks. So again, what volume setting is the Empire set at? Did you try figuring out if you have a room issue? I forget, how big is your room??
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post #28 of 62 Old 03-15-2013, 01:33 AM
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yup, do some measurements in your room to find out what the problem is before replacing your sub. An integrated Empire should shine in your HT. I have one too and it shakes the couch big time if you put it close enough. I think you will be hard-pressed to find one at 600$ that can match it in output and quality of bass.

I run two subs and am very happy, but am considering a third and fourth, because, well, you just always want more no?? smile.gif

Advice given to me was to calibrate the ones I have with REW or similar first to see where the issues are before spending more money on a new sub.
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post #29 of 62 Old 03-15-2013, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

I know I'm bad at math, but I'm not that bad am I??

2200 sq. ft. x 8' = 17,600 cu. ft.

I do assume that his room is not 2200 sq. ft. and that was a typo - that would be one huge-a** room!

The RW-12D is that good, I use a single one in my 17,000 cut ft room.. that just happens to be a music hall rolleyes.gif

I meant 2200 cu. ft


Again, if you want sound quality stick with that empire.. if you just want loud and shaking **** in your house, get the RW-12D's I for one love my RW-12D simply because it was a huge step up from the previous sub I had, but I cannot wait to get my DIY build together and get rid of it.

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post #30 of 62 Old 03-15-2013, 07:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by McStyvie View Post

I run two subs and am very happy, but am considering a third and fourth, because, well, you just always want more no?? smile.gif

Please, explain this salient point to my wife, to "HER" understanding. tongue.gif
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