Just how much better is 2 subwoofers? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 143 Old 03-20-2013, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

Hi Thomas,

Your question is a good one, but also a dangerous one. There is no end. If you upgrade to one subwoofer that rolls off at 18 hz, then you'll wonder what 2 will sound like... then you'll wonder what a 15hz sub provides... then 2... see where I'm going here? Have you seen the rotary sub that goes down to 3 hz? At some point, you just have to smile, and enjoy what you have.

Upgrade-itis. It's contagious, and this forum can infect you. Whatever you do... don't go to the DIY forum here

http://www.avsforum.com/f/155/diy-speakers-and-subs

. eek.gif

Joseph
I was hanging there for a short time when I made my statements cc not too long ago as I plan not to buy anymore factory made retail speakers anymore and my subs are working good.
I will go back to hanging there again as my future plans are to build full size statements, ministatements for surrounds and lastly back to subs again for a pair of 18 inch daytons in that order.This will take allot of years as money is alittle tight now. Next I will buy a meter. but can some one say is an extra 5hz that big of a difference? Is there allot that is in most movies that I am missing out on if not I will just relax and forget about it for a number of years.If it is a big difference maybe I will do the daytons next.is it that noticable not having that extra 5hz?
This is how I see adding more subs it is like blowing up a balloon the first breath is very noticable and the second breath is also noticable but not as much as the first,Then with each breath the balloon is getting bigger but not so noticably bigger. The larger the balloon gets the less each breath is noticable.yes I know adding more of the same sub will not get you lower.
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post #122 of 143 Old 03-21-2013, 06:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas 1966 View Post

how much am I missing out on having subs that roll off at 25hz verses a roll off of 20hz as I have never owned or known any one to listen to their 20hz subs.
mine sounded boomy so I moved one behind me and the five in the front are in the shape of an arc sorta a bit like a rainbow reran audyssey now the boom is gone. sounds good now.I could be happy with these subs as long as I am not missing out on something big and not knowing it. 25hz to 20hz baby step better or oh crap this is better?[

Ignorance is bliss. My goal in life is to be the dullest tack in the box. Nobody ever says, hey, I want this tack, it's the dullest tack in the box. tongue.gif

The point, one never knows what one is missing until they've been shown what they're missing. The best musical analogy that I have is a pair of broken in headphones. In one hand, the listener has a hundred dollar pair of headphones (Audio-Technica, ATH-AD700's) and in the other, the listener has a five hundred dollar pair of headphones; Sennheiser, HD 650's. All things being equal, quality DAC, headphone amplifier and all gear working to stated specification, the difference in depth between the hundred dollar headphone vs the five hundred dollar headphone is the difference between simple playback and playback with life in it; depth of soul. The difference, one is just a headphone, the other is a compelling headphone one doesn't want to take off and no, I can't afford to listen to better headphones than what I have because ignorance is bliss and it's oh so easy to want to move forwards and it's oh so hard to be shown better and then made to move backwards. tongue.gif

Just a thought, when making an upgrade of this kind, most subwoofer systems that are 20Hz capable, will go lower into the 10Hz - 15Hz level so you'll be entering the tactile subsonic level subwoofer playback, a whole new playback world of experience. Think of it like one going from HS ball to college ball.

How to articulate the difference? It's all about playback depth of soul. It's about how engaging and compelling the playback effort is. A recommendation, don't go there as abandon hope, all ye who goes there as you'll be sucked into the black hole of musical-movie bliss, never to be hear from again. tongue.gif

Quote:
Is there allot that is in most movies that I am missing out on if not I will just relax and forget about it for a number of years.

Example: You have a Mustang. And this wonderful Mustang, which you love so much, has been dyno'd at 300Hp. OTOH, your buddy has a Mustang, and his Mustang has an engine which has been dyno'd at 375HP......are you really missing out? biggrin.gif

-
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post #123 of 143 Old 03-21-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

Hey, Mr. Craig John?

I just followed the link on your sig, and I saw that rotten, mess of oversized, eyesore Triad Platinum speakers I'm sure both you and your wife have grown tired of by now:



When you're ready to upgrade to something less conspicuous, I'd like to make you a standing offer of 1,000 bucks for the entire, used, worn out setup. That's cash money, my friend.

And because I like you, I'll even pay for the shipping to West Virginia, if you'll throw in those stands. cool.gif

Hi wvu80,

I just got off the phone with my attorney. He is amending my will by adding a clause that references the above post. You will be able to purchase the speakers from my estate for the above stated $1,000 cash money.

This solves a huge problem for me. I have 3 kids and they each wanted the speakers. I was going to have to break up the set and give one speaker to each kid. This way, the set can stay together and the kids will no longer have anything to fight over.

Now, please forward me your address so I can send you the bill for the attorney fees to amend my will. He's a very expensive attorney and estimated his fees at about $20,000.

Craig

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post #124 of 143 Old 03-21-2013, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi wvu80,

I just got off the phone with my attorney. He is amending my will by adding a clause that references the above post. You will be able to purchase the speakers from my estate for the above stated $1,000 cash money.

This solves a huge problem for me. I have 3 kids and they each wanted the speakers. I was going to have to break up the set and give one speaker to each kid. This way, the set can stay together and the kids will no longer have anything to fight over.

LOL! Helping kids and families is what I do! (I'm a therapist)

Now, please forward me your address so I can send you the bill for the attorney fees to amend my will. He's a very expensive attorney and I estimated his fees at about $20,000.

Craig[/quote

The check's in the mail!

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #125 of 143 Old 03-22-2013, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Ignorance is bliss. My goal in life is to be the dullest tack in the box. Nobody ever says, hey, I want this tack, it's the dullest tack in the box. tongue.gif

The point, one never knows what one is missing until they've been shown what they're missing. The best musical analogy that I have is a pair of broken in headphones. (snip!)

How to articulate the difference? It's all about playback depth of soul. It's about how engaging and compelling the playback effort is. A recommendation, don't go there as abandon hope, all ye who goes there as you'll be sucked into the black hole of musical-movie bliss, never to be hear from again. tongue.gif

Example: You have a Mustang. And this wonderful Mustang, which you love so much, has been dyno'd at 300Hp. OTOH, your buddy has a Mustang, (snip!)
-[/quote

Rinnnnnnng. "Hello? You've reached the metaphor abuse hotline..."
+++

OK Mr. Bman, I've been reading your stuff in other related threads, and I judge you to be a fine fellow, who gives sound advice. (ahem) But back to our original dilemma, 1 decent sub vs 2 half-decent subs.

After waaay too much hand wringing over such a relatively simple purchase decision, I've decided that I would prefer a 6 ounce sirloin over two quarter pounders, with cheese. The Klipsch RW-12d will be here on Monday.

It was largely due to Mr. Beeman's sage advice, as well as that Newegg additional $10 off promo code that got me off dead center. Now I just have to figure out what exactly to tell the wife what is in that 45 pound box that UPS will leave at our door while I'm at work. Please don't suggest I tell her "the truth,", as that never turns out well for me when it comes to buying speakers, or anything else, now that I think about it.

Do any of you veterans of this AVS Discussion Board have any good stories/lies you've told your wife in the past that has worked? Help a new fellow sub owner out, here.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #126 of 143 Old 03-30-2013, 05:19 PM
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Guys currently on my 5.1 set up i have dayton 1200. And i am planning to get another dayton 1200 to have 5.2 set up. Do you guys think that will be a huge sound or bass upgrade for my set up? I really dont have that much money to spend on expensive subs. Do i get a smooth bass or something if i add another dayton 1200?

(2) Energy RC 70 towers
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post #127 of 143 Old 03-31-2013, 01:59 PM
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you get what you pay for. No you will not get a big difference. slightly louder if they are next to each other or a little smoother if they are split up.But you will mostly just get a little more of what you got already. if you want a big difference save your money and buy a better sub later. if you are happy with what you have and need just a small improvement. then get another cheap sub
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post #128 of 143 Old 03-31-2013, 02:17 PM
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Which one is better get the klipsch r12d or get the 2 klipsch 10 synergy?

(2) Energy RC 70 towers
(1) Energy Veritas 2.0C center
(2) Energy Veritas 2.0R surrounds
(2) Energy RC LCR back surrounds
(1) Rythmik LV12R sub
(1) Denon 2112CI avr
(1) LG 55" LM7600 tv
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post #129 of 143 Old 03-31-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

Which one is better get the klipsch r12d or get the 2 klipsch 10 synergy?
You need to prioritize for yourself the following 3 questions:

How low do you want to go?

How loud to want to go?

How smooth do you want the sound to be?

Examine your priorities for these 3 questions, and you will have the answer.

Dual subs will provide the smoothest response, (depending on the setup.)

A single "better" sub could possibly go lower, or louder, or both, depending on the sub and the setup.

Setup is the *key* in in all these decisions. Do you have any way to measure your response? How much flexibility do you have in your setup?

Craig

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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #130 of 143 Old 04-01-2013, 07:20 PM
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Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting another subwoofer and would really like some advice concerning it.

I have a JBL ES250 and I'm thinking about getting another but I don't know if my media room is to small for two of those guys. My media room is 106.35ft² (9.88m²).

It would be great if you guys have some experience with two sw in such a small space and tell me if I'm gaining something by having two.
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post #131 of 143 Old 04-02-2013, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by vygnyr View Post

Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting another subwoofer and would really like some advice concerning it.

I have a JBL ES250 and I'm thinking about getting another but I don't know if my media room is to small for two of those guys. My media room is 106.35ft² (9.88m²).

It would be great if you guys have some experience with two sw in such a small space and tell me if I'm gaining something by having two.
I have six es250pbk in a 360 square foot room it is more smooth,even,and loud. so two in a smaller room should be nice,but will not help getting you lower. amazon had allot of open box es250pbk a few weeks ago for $104 to bad you did not buy one then as you would not be out much. side by side you will notice it louder and more head room. but not a crazy improvement.a small room you should have plenty of bass over 25hz.
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post #132 of 143 Old 05-20-2013, 12:48 PM
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I have two subs, the Kreisel and Hsu. I tried both at same time and they sound nice however I decided to just use the Kreisel because I feel it sounds a lot cleaner on its own.
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post #133 of 143 Old 08-02-2013, 07:11 AM
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Ok first theater build. I have a 10x14 room I bought infinity surrounds. Avs-10 or something like that. If I put this powered sub and add my. Sony powered 10(is is that not a good idea) what do I set the crossover at and can I just get an rca splittet and spit the incomming signal from my denon reviver?
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post #134 of 143 Old 08-04-2013, 03:58 PM
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Two sub's scares me cause of phase and distance issues. Without an avr with 32xt there is no way I could pull it off
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post #135 of 143 Old 08-04-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Two sub's scares me cause of phase and distance issues.
That's precisely what using two or more subs addresses. You can't get phase and distance correct outside of a very small listening position with one sub. Two or more smooths out phase, distance and response anomalies, even when no processing is used.

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post #136 of 143 Old 08-04-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That's precisely what using two or more subs addresses. You can't get phase and distance correct outside of a very small listening position with one sub. Two or more smooths out phase, distance and response anomalies, even when no processing is used.
+1 (Emphasis added.)

Lombardi said it:
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post #137 of 143 Old 08-04-2013, 06:06 PM
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Can u just split the signal to the 2 subs with an rca splitter also where to put the crossover on the back of the subs. Also would u put both under the screen or one in front of room and one in back
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post #138 of 143 Old 08-04-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That's precisely what using two or more subs addresses. You can't get phase and distance correct outside of a very small listening position with one sub. Two or more smooths out phase, distance and response anomalies, even when no processing is used.

So how do you do the setup without a mic? Is it possible?

I bought a stereo antimode to use for automatic calibration
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post #139 of 143 Old 08-04-2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

So how do you do the setup without a mic? Is it possible?

I bought a stereo antimode to use for automatic calibration

Get an SPL meter and gain match them. Once they are gained matched, run antimode with them both on.

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post #140 of 143 Old 08-05-2013, 05:53 AM
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Get an SPL meter and gain match them. Once they are gained matched, run antimode with them both on.

Only having one distance setting won't be a problem in that setup?
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post #141 of 143 Old 08-05-2013, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Only having one distance setting won't be a problem in that setup?
The necessity of using any distance setting is highly over stated, assuming your room isn't 40 x 50 feet or more in size. What you can't hear won't hurt you, and at subwoofer frequencies you can't hear time align differentials of 20ms and more. Where you run into time align issues is well above 100Hz, and if your sub has a lot of output above 100Hz that is a problem, but you should address that problem via measures other than time align.

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post #142 of 143 Old 08-06-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The necessity of using any distance setting is highly over stated, assuming your room isn't 40 x 50 feet or more in size. What you can't hear won't hurt you, and at subwoofer frequencies you can't hear time align differentials of 20ms and more. Where you run into time align issues is well above 100Hz, and if your sub has a lot of output above 100Hz that is a problem, but you should address that problem via measures other than time align.

So if one is 1-2 feet away and the other 10-12 feet away its fine?
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post #143 of 143 Old 08-06-2013, 09:28 AM
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So if one is 1-2 feet away and the other 10-12 feet away its fine?
You'll never know the difference, so long as they're level adjusted.

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