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post #1 of 26 Old 03-13-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking to get a single sub to go with Swan Diva 6.2 towers\5.2 center and surrounds. Room is ~1900 cubic feet. Usage pretty much 100% movie\tv. budget ~$800. Not looking to create ultimate theater room, but wanting it to be pretty decent.
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-13-2013, 07:23 PM
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Outlaw lfm-ex
PSA XV-15
SVS PB-12
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-13-2013, 07:27 PM
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I would add Hsu VTF3-MK4 to those listed above.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #4 of 26 Old 03-13-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by chashint View Post

I would add Hsu VTF3-MK4 to those listed above.

Yup. Forgot about that one...
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-13-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh one other thing: the placement will be on the right side of my rig putting it close to the corner of the room if that matters for downward vs front vs side firing
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Bump for daytime. Also so far I am leaning towards the XV15. I'm thinking since I am only going to have one sub, the 15" with 500w may be best, but I know there is more to it than that.
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 07:39 AM
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I can vouch for the XV-15. Is this a sealed room? The XV-15 will plenty loud in there you could even look at the XS-15 if you wanted to come down in price at all. Also, when people read the statements that its going where it's going, that tuns a lot of people off...as the room determines where the sub will be placed. It's kind of a crap shoot just throwing the sub in a location without testing out some other locations as your listening position may be in a null. That being said, make sure you tape out the dimensions to the XV-15 first, it's no small fella wink.gif
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

I can vouch for the XV-15. Is this a sealed room? The XV-15 will plenty loud in there you could even look at the XS-15 if you wanted to come down in price at all. Also, when people read the statements that its going where it's going, that tuns a lot of people off...as the room determines where the sub will be placed. It's kind of a crap shoot just throwing the sub in a location without testing out some other locations as your listening position may be in a null. That being said, make sure you tape out the dimensions to the XV-15 first, it's no small fella wink.gif

Well the room has double doors which can be closed although they usually are not. Most of the time one is open. I know what you mean about placement. I'm hoping it will be OK where I want it, but if it really sucks, I'll bite the bullet and find a better place for it. I don't really need to come down in price. I could go higher, but I'm trying to keep it reasonable on top of the 6500 or so we are spending on a new sammy 60f8500 and the Swan speakers and a cheapo receiver to go along with my old surround speakers to replace a sound bar downstairs plus new sofa and tables plus plus plus... I'm sure I'll fit it in there somewhere.
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 07:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whargoul View Post

Not looking to create ultimate theater room, but wanting it to be pretty decent.

At a delivered price of $600.00, a pair of Klipsch, RW-12d's will meet this requirement.

(yes, I read that you want one sub)

Going with one sub opens up a can of acoustical worms; sound wave cancellation. The way to deal with this phenomenon is placement, judicious use of parametric setting and the addition of a second, third or fourth sub; room smoothing due to overlapping sound waves which fill in valleys or nulls created by intersecting sound waves.
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post #10 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

At a delivered price of $600.00, a pair of Klipsch, RW-12d's will meet this requirement.

(yes, I read that you want one sub)

Going with one sub opens up a can of acoustical worms; sound wave cancellation. The way to deal with this phenomenon is placement, judicious use of parametric setting and the addition of a second, third or fourth sub; room smoothing due to overlapping sound waves which fill in valleys or nulls created by intersecting sound waves.

Yeah I hear what you're sayin' As I said I'm not trying to go overboard atm, but I prefer to get one higher quality sub and see how it goes and if I really think I need to, I will get an additional higher quality sub. And yeah, I know this is still nowhere near true high quality heh.
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whargoul View Post

And yeah, I know this is still nowhere near true high quality heh.

Not to be argumentative and trying to be encouraging, there's nothing low quality about a Klipsch, RW-12d. The point, these subs are much better then many are willing to give them credit for. A single BIC, PL12 or Klipsch, RW-12d's will get you...............80% of the way. confused.gif A second (maybe a third) one will get you 90% of the way. The next ten thousand dollars worth of subwoofers is the path to the final 10% and then the question morphs into; when does one reach the end and when does one go to the other side of the singularity?

In my opinion, once one crosses over the 95% level, they're chasing esoteric rainbows of personal satisfaction; ego and has little if anything to so with theater quality reproduced sound.
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Not to be argumentative and trying to be encouraging, there's nothing low quality about a Klipsch, RW-12d. The point, these subs are much better then many are willing to give them credit for. A single BIC, PL12 or Klipsch, RW-12d's will get you...............80% of the way. confused.gif A second (maybe a third) one will get you 90% of the way. The next ten thousand dollars worth of subwoofers is the path to the final 10% and then the question morphs into; when does one reach the end and when does one go to the other side of the singularity?

In my opinion, once one crosses over the 95% level, they're chasing esoteric rainbows of personal satisfaction; ego and has little if anything to so with theater quality reproduced sound.

Well I meant the xv15 but yeah. And that is the road I am trying to avoid lol wink.gif WAF is decent around my house, but it ain't THAT decent...
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 09:39 AM
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In a room the size of yours, the SVS PB-1000 would perform very well. Buy one for $499, shipped, and add another one later on; or get two right away for $949, shipped.

A single PSA XV15 would be an awesome sub in your space. Two of them would be, well, awesomer... cool.gif
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 09:42 AM
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If you really are only going to go with one sub, there really is no way you can go wrong with a XV15 from PSA. There's a very good reason why they are selling a boat load of then and why Audioholics picked it as its sub of the year.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whargoul View Post

Well I meant the xv15 but yeah. And that is the road I am trying to avoid lol wink.gif WAF is decent around my house, but it ain't THAT decent...

The WAF is a powerful force indeed and a single, to be added to later, XV15 is a great starting point with the understanding of, to be added to later. biggrin.gif

At these levels, one is posting about differences of three to twelve dB's. And when someone's subwoofer system is cranking out consistent >100dB output, it's hard to tell whether one is missing out or not.

In the end, it's all about the WAF, the smile factor and getting both to meet in the middle to your satisfaction.

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post #16 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I went ahead with the xv15. I'm upgrading from a bose acoustimass with passive sub (yeah...), so i imagine anything including pounding the wall with poop on a stick is going to sound better for awhile.
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whargoul View Post

I went ahead with the xv15. I'm upgrading from a bose acoustimass with passive sub (yeah...), so i imagine anything including pounding the wall with poop on a stick is going to sound better for awhile.

Congratulations on your new purchase. We'll look forward to your initial impression comments after receiving, installing, dialing in and evaluating this new addition to your subwoofer system.
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 10:13 AM
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Congrats Whargoul, coming from that setup you're gonna love the XV15!

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 10:41 AM
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Congrats!
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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Congrats! Don't hesitate to email Tom with any questions about setup, etc...he is more than helpful! That will be a fun sub in that sized room! Great choice!
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post #21 of 26 Old 03-14-2013, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. I'm certainly excited about all the speakers. Maybe moreso about the tv.
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-15-2013, 06:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whargoul View Post

Thanks guys. I'm certainly excited about all the speakers. Maybe moreso about the tv.

That will last until the chest thumping starts and then all of a sudden, unless you already have an 80" or larger screen, you'll want a bigger screen to keep up with the size of the bass.

The local Costco has 80" screens for $3.600.00......oh my gosh, look honey, they're "ONLY" $3,600.00. tongue.gif

The WAF keeps me under control. Boo-hoo for me. frown.gif
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post #23 of 26 Old 03-15-2013, 07:07 AM
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I'm glad I don't have to deal with this "WAF" thingy. I think i'd lose my mind.

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post #24 of 26 Old 03-15-2013, 07:31 AM
 
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I'm glad I don't have to deal with this "WAF" thingy. I think i'd lose my mind.

Don't worry, once married, a man never has to worry about losing his mind.....because his wife keeps it locked away. tongue.gif

Try telling the world you want it loud and the wife is sitting there holding her temples with her family looking on. Now that's that's a picture no man wants going public so the guy simply says..."Yes dear."

Boo-hoo for all spouses wrapped up in this fashion.

Currently we're working on a compromise. To facilitate this compromise, my current backdoor research project is what are "REAL WORLD" SPL levels in movie theater houses as opposed to THX reference levels as MPAA standards are being changed to accommodate viewer demands.

Several points have come of this research; the MPAA has increased standards for trailers and commercials (not to be confused with television viewing standards), reducing SPL levels to that of main feature sound tracks (no jacking up the volume for trailers or commercials to get your attention), viewer satisfaction with slider 7 (movie house sound level standard) breaks down to, IIRC, 75% happy, 21% it's too loud and 4% want it louder. Lastly, although THX reference lists speaker based volume at 85-105dB and subwoofer, LFE content at a Lmax of 115dB, 95% of sound is in the <90dB range with >100dB being fractional (0.01%) when compared to the total of the movie sound track.

What all this means is, we're all being fed a bunch of hooie as to what's what with what as we strive for a standard that doesn't exist is real life and my compromise, so as to win the much coveted WAF, is to learn about and strive to achieve real world standards to I don't have to worry about any "Dear Ann Landers" letters being written to the local paper's editor on what a thoughtless sonic cad her husband is.

Boo-hoo for me. biggrin.gif

Cinemas - do they pose a risk to hearing?

"Results

A summary of the results is shown in. For the duration of the film the L Aeq range was 73 to 79 dB(A), which dropped to 67 to 74 dB(A) for an equivalent 8-hour daily exposure. The maximum SPL (L Amax ) recorded for each film exceeded 90 dB(A) in every case. However, this is put into context when looking at the exceedance levels. No film exceeded 90 dB(A) for more than 5% of the time, which varied between 6 and 8 minutes. With the exception of The Siege, no film exceeded 90 dB(A) for more than 1% of the time, which was approximately 1 to 1.5 minutes. Furthermore, for all films except The Siege, sound levels exceeded 90 to 95 dB(A) for only 0.01% of the time i.e. less than 10 seconds. The Siege exceeded 90 dB(A) for about 90 seconds. All the films had a number of scenes with explosions and gunfire, however for a large proportion of the time the noise levels (L Aeq ) were below 75 dB(A). This is illustrated in [Figure - 1].

For one set of measurements made during Lethal Weapon 4 (not shown inas the noise levels were only recorded for part of the film) the L Aeq was 75 dB(A). However, the unweighted frequency measurements were much higher; the unweighted equivalent continuous level (L Leq ) was 82 dB and the unweighted maximum (L Lmax ) was 101 dB. The latter value is much closer to the decibel levels reported in the media."

I'm sure everybody can find "EXCEPTIONS" to the above but I'm not looking to exceptions in which to base our compromise on.

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post #25 of 26 Old 03-15-2013, 07:56 AM
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But, I am married. It's just that my wife is understanding and won't try to hinder my hobby or love for music/movies. If I get excited and suddenly want to buy something that I really don't need/want, then she will help calm me down and let me really think about it. She won't tell me I can't have something because she doesn't like the way it looks. Our tastes are the same, so what I find attractive she also seems to find attractive. Plus, it's not as if only my ears are allowed to listen to stuff.

As to having to keep the volume down when watching movies, I think you need a receiver with a "Night" mode, or Dynamic EQ. This really helps maintain good volume levels during movies, and avoids the dips and peaks that are present in typical movies. Perhaps think of upgrading your speakers to more laid-back or neutral sounding speakers as well.

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post #26 of 26 Old 03-15-2013, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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For me WAF comes with many benefits not the least of which is being able to afford to buy big nice TVs and speakers and whatnot wink.gif
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