Oh No! Another what to buy thread (PSA XV30 v. Rhythmik FV15HP) - AVS Forum
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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My old trusty HSU VTF2 has given up the ghost and I have moved into a much large home theater space. The room is about 4000 ^3ft. (27x13 with a roof that slopes from 13' to 8'). There are some french doors that I can close to enclose the room. My budget is in the $1000 to $1500 range, so obviously I am going to as close as possible to the $1500. Initially, I considered the HSU VTF-15H, as I was such a big fan of my VTF2. I then found the Rhythmik FV15HP and when compared to the VTF-15H, it came on top in every category except price (if I am wrong, please let me know). I was about ready to pull the trigger on the FV15HP when I found the PSA XV30. After shipping costs, the XV30 is actually cheaper than the FV15HP. However, there are not a lot of reviews (professional or otherwise) out on the XV30. At least with the FV15HP there are glowing reviews both professional and amateur (including some nice GTG reviews). So, I am on the horns of a dilemma. Should I stay with the tested FV15HP or go with the, untested, but nice looking (performing) new comer?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:21 PM
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1st off there's not a wrong answer here. The Rythmik and PSA are a step up in performance from the HSU, however, they cost more, the HSU is high value, and is a stout sub.

The Rythmik has the output advantage at port tune and higher for a bit then the PSA has the output advantage. I forget the exact number where the PSA takes over, perhaps around 50Hz. Neither sub has a huge advantage in either region. A ported sub is not too happy below port tune, so the PSA gets the advantage way down there, although I am still impressed with how well the Rythmik handles the low stuff like Bass I Love You, although that songs deep note gets the Rythmik woofer really moving, it is still in control and nothing bad happens, though you shouldn't be cranking that song at reference. The sealed PSA will handle those notes below 10Hz more gracefully but of course you can put a high pass on the Rythmik if you want.

I went with Dual Rythmik FV15HPs and absolutely love them. They are built like a tank, Brian provides great customer service, the sound is soooo accurate, and they are very reasonably priced for their capabilities. The tremendous output capabilities are a blast, but I find myself doing a lot of -10 to -20 music listening and the sound quality is amazing. There have been some tests which showed the Servo reducing distortion; Rythmik Brian commonly talks about the greater cone control it provides.

I also own a PSA XS-15. It is well built, sounds great, great value, and PSA also has actively involved great customer service. There are several members around with dual XS-30s who will show their very high praise as well; I completely believe them. I have a lot of respect for the PSA owners, their subs, and their users.

We are fortunate to have these great options available. In the end you can weigh the minor differences and see what you value more. Or just flip a coin. Either way you will end up with a fabulous sub.

Are you not considering duals? I bought one FV15HP knowing I would get to duals within a year. If it was going to take longer then that I would have bought two lesser subs.

Hope this helps
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:46 PM
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Tough choice here. As you already know Rythmik has been proven to be a solid performer by Audioholic and lots of folks here. The XV30 from reading here and from measurement posted on their website is also a solid choice. PSA has better warranty and the XV30 is cheaper. If it was me, I would go with what has been proven by pro review, Rythmik that is, but I am sure you will be happy with either one.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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In the back of my mind, I have the idea of eventually doing multiple subs. I have some WAF and location issues for putting two subs in the room. In fact, I really only have two potential locations for the subs. That will be another issue I will probably post on the appropriate "owners" thread.

I was really hoping there was someone who has heard both subs. I guess, if it is a close call, I should go with the FV15HP. There is a lot more data on that one.

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Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Are you not considering duals? I bought one FV15HP knowing I would get to duals within a year. If it was going to take longer then that I would have bought two lesser subs.

Hope this helps
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post

In the back of my mind, I have the idea of eventually doing multiple subs. I have some WAF and location issues for putting two subs in the room. In fact, I really only have two potential locations for the subs. That will be another issue I will probably post on the appropriate "owners" thread.

Regarding your above, a choice to consider, because it's so different in shape (less noticeable, less distracting, smaller foot print), is the column subwoofer choices over that of the standard square box design that SVS has to offer.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:29 PM
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6 of 1...half dozen of the other.

Both Excellent subs. I give a slight nod to the Rythmik for three reasons:

1) I own the FV15HP so I know and can more fully recommend it ...without a tad of hesitation or regret.

2) Rythmik has a longer track record and has been reviewed more with more 3rd party in depth measurements to backup claims

3) Servo Technology has been tested and proven to reduce distortion and my wife hates boom...so I wanted a ported sub that acted allot like a sealed (if you look at the blind tests peeps can't really tell a good ported from a good sealed though...)

Anyway...my two cents.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:34 PM
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I really don't think the whole longer track record comment is really valid, Jim and Tom have been around just as long as Brian, maybe even longer. As far as third party measurements go; once again while its true it should also be noted that in the review Audioholics did on the VX15 they commented that their measurements were pretty much exactly what PSA was saying they were. So there's no reason to believe the XS30 or VX30 wouldn't measure pretty much to exactly what PSA claims they will, well at least to within 0.5-1.0db of what they claim.

Not to mention PSA believes in their subs enough to give you a 5 year warranty on their amps instead of 2 years.
I am by no means saying Rythmik isn't a great sub, just stating that the same excuses I've read about people saying "I want to see third party measurements and don't have a long track record" aren't really something to worry about IMO.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I also own a PSA XS-15.

Could that particular XS-15 be the subwoofer which is long overdue for someone's review? Just saying... tongue.gif

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:51 PM
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I totally agree with JBrown15 that PSA should not be dinged for being the new company on the block, especially with the "V" from SVS. Their reputations are long standing as very well respected sub designers and people. Their subs are no doubt high performance and high value. They aren't going anywhere IMO.

It seems like as we go higher and higher performance, and in watching the ultra bass heads go off the deep end. What they are seeking is more output at lower frequencies. Some folks down into the single digits. The FV15HP is 3db down at 14Hz. The XS-30 is 3db down at 25Hz. For most music that means nothing, but for the kinds of movies I like to turn up a bit,, that's the difference for me. The XS-30 does get back out front below 14Hz, but if it's 5db down at 20Hz, how much flat usable output are we talking about down there?

But here we are comparing sealed and ported:-)
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I also own a PSA XS-15.

Could that particular XS-15 be the subwoofer which is long overdue for someone's review? Just saying... tongue.gif

I keep saying very well deserved nice things, does that count? How's my review going to be compared to yours...I'm having a "small review value" complex next to your skills bud. Do you have to come swinging in to the urinal right next to me like that?
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses, it is much appreciated.

Dstew, Actually, I am deciding between the xv30 (not xs) and the fv15hp. So, apples to apples.

Is there anything that the xv30 does better than the fv15hp (or vice versa)?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


It seems like as we go higher and higher performance, and in watching the ultra bass heads go off the deep end. What they are seeking is more output at lower frequencies. Some folks down into the single digits. The FV15HP is 3db down at 14Hz. The XS-30 is 3db down at 25Hz. For most music that means nothing, but for the kinds of movies I like to turn up a bit,, that's the difference for me. The XS-30 does get back out front below 14Hz, but if it's 5db down at 20Hz, how much flat usable output are we talking about down there?

But here we are comparing sealed and ported:-)
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:42 AM
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If the XV-30 gets a full 6 dBs over the XV-15 then the XV-30 will have similar output to the FV15HP. Then you go on looks, size, warranty, etc....

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Old 03-22-2013, 01:13 PM
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You may want to consider getting 2 XV-15 instead of one XV-30. It won't cost much more (5% discount when ordering 2 or more) and 2 subs spaced apart will help smooth out the overall room response. The only drawback is it will take up both your potential sub spots. Unless you stack them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:00 PM
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You may want to consider getting 2 XV-15 instead of one XV-30. It won't cost much more (5% discount when ordering 2 or more) and 2 subs spaced apart will help smooth out the overall room response. The only drawback is it will take up both your potential sub spots. Unless you stack them.

Rythmik mutli sub discount is 10%
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

If the XV-30 gets a full 6 dBs over the XV-15 then the XV-30 will have similar output to the FV15HP. Then you go on looks, size, warranty, etc....

Yup, as close as a sealed sub can line up with a ported, FV15HP and XS-30 do sorta. But the nature of sealed vs ported is what separates these two. Choose your poison. 2m ground play of the XS30 is -5db at 20Hz. weird to me. My Rythmik is solid down to 14 Hz in the same 2m ground plane measurement. The response is, well the XS-30 gets to have in room response and does better there...yup all subs do, that why we compare like data-bass does.

MK overcomes all drawbacks of a sub design by applying more.. then redoing with a better design...Then applying more...The repeat....He is an example of what I was referring to about the "watching the ultra bass heads go off the deep end. What they are seeking is more output at lower frequencies. Some folks down into the single digits." Well played MK sir. I like the way you roll.

EDIT: oops he's referring to XV-30 and I keep talking about XS-30
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:12 PM
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PSA offers a discount on multi sub orders too. And keep in mind shipping is included in the price of PSA subs, with Rythmik you're looking at about $100 per sub in extra shipping costs.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post

Thanks for the responses, it is much appreciated.

Dstew, Actually, I am deciding between the xv30 (not xs) and the fv15hp. So, apples to apples.

Is there anything that the xv30 does better than the fv15hp (or vice versa)?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


It seems like as we go higher and higher performance, and in watching the ultra bass heads go off the deep end. What they are seeking is more output at lower frequencies. Some folks down into the single digits. The FV15HP is 3db down at 14Hz. The XS-30 is 3db down at 25Hz. For most music that means nothing, but for the kinds of movies I like to turn up a bit,, that's the difference for me. The XS-30 does get back out front below 14Hz, but if it's 5db down at 20Hz, how much flat usable output are we talking about down there?

But here we are comparing sealed and ported:-)

EDIT: That post didn't make since either, still learning to read smile.gif He's talking about the XV-30 and I keep talking about the XS-30, oops

OP I'm not as familiar with the XV-30 graphs. I'll take a look at PSA's and the Rythmik plots. I do take PSA's graphs at face value, those guys aren't going to exaggerate the numbers. Rythmik has graphs and there are some up on data-bass. Check em out.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

PSA offers a discount on multi sub orders too. And keep in mind shipping is included in the price of PSA subs, with Rythmik you're looking at about $100 per sub in extra shipping costs.

EDIT: Delete worthless rude post, I apologize jbrown
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

And keep in mind shipping is included in the price of PSA subs, with Rythmik you're looking at about $100 per sub in extra shipping costs.

EDIT: Re-worded post

One way or another we are all paying for shipping on everything, it's just how it is presented to us.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:22 PM
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What's with the attitude dstew100?
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:26 PM
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What's with the attitude dstew100?

boozing, sorry bud. I'll stop
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:28 PM
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Haha maybe we should call ou brewstew instead on dstew tongue.gif
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:36 PM
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Haha maybe we should call ou brewstew instead on dstew tongue.gif

:-) Wish I could change the dstew without losing the history.

In my history back in the day you will find a series of 5-10 post that say "Deleted because I was rude and incorrect."

Sorry man, we'll take it up tomorrow.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post

Thanks for the responses, it is much appreciated.

Dstew, Actually, I am deciding between the xv30 (not xs) and the fv15hp. So, apples to apples.

Is there anything that the xv30 does better than the fv15hp (or vice versa)?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


It seems like as we go higher and higher performance, and in watching the ultra bass heads go off the deep end. What they are seeking is more output at lower frequencies. Some folks down into the single digits. The FV15HP is 3db down at 14Hz. The XS-30 is 3db down at 25Hz. For most music that means nothing, but for the kinds of movies I like to turn up a bit,, that's the difference for me. The XS-30 does get back out front below 14Hz, but if it's 5db down at 20Hz, how much flat usable output are we talking about down there?

But here we are comparing sealed and ported:-)

Here are PSA's CAE numbers from their website for the XV-30. As I said I don't believe they would splurge on it but I still like to see 3rd party measurements. I trust these numbers regardless though.
Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 111.9dB
Low bass (40-63Hz): 119.1dB
I assume those are the max burst and not the longterm output numbers. Comparing that to what ricci has up on data-bass for the FV15HP
1 port mode
@20Hz 108.3db
@31.5Hz 115.3db
@40Hz 117.8db
@63Hz 117.9db

2 port mode
@20Hz 108.1db
@31.5Hz 117 db
@40Hz 119.5db
@63Hz 118.8db


Yeah these two are very very close.

The Rythmik has the servo and the amp's a bit more sophisticated with PEQ and a couple other bells. I've seen the PSA finish dinged but I disagree. Although I prefer the Rythmik finish the PSA is a good looking sub IMO.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:07 PM
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It is normally better to go with a more established company...

More people own Rythmik and they have been around longer:

That means:

1) More information is out there about the product
2) Longer term reliability is a better known factor
3) In a business sense a company is less likely to fail in the 5th year than in the first two years...

There has to be a really compelling reason to go with a newer company...

Price
Newer Technology / Clearly superior product
Customer Service
Geographic Location / Support

In my case ...none of the reasons really compelled me to go with PSA over Rythmik even though I did look at them.

The best I could find out is that the XV30 vs. the FV15HP is that XV30 is slightly ahead in output above 20 and FV15HP is head below 20... (Generalization from memory).

That being said and the lack of information confirmed by third parties...etc...etc... I tend to recommend Rythmik over PSA but both are excellent companies with great products.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:17 PM
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How many times do we really need to hear this about PSA not being around very long.
It should noted that the guys that own and run PSA Jim and Tom have been in the industry for a long time, probably as long if not longer then Brian from Rythmik. Both Jim and Tom worked for another small ID company many have probably heard of SVS. Tom was actually the "V" in SV.
So that's not really a valid argument IMO, secondly PSA believes in their product enough to give you a 5 year warranty on their amps. Rythmik only gives you a 2 year warranty.

And the last point I hear brought up a lot, is the lack of third party measurements. Most people love the reviews and measurements that Audioholics provides and often bring up their measurements when discussing subs. It should be noted that in their review of the VX15 they commented that the VX15 pretty much measured to exactly the same numbers that PSA claimed it would, so there's no reason to believe they would try to inflate the numbers of any of their other subs so any third party measurement should be very close to what PSA claims for their measured numbers.

Rythmik makes great subs, theres no question about that. But points I hear people bring up for reasons not to buy from PSA aren't really warranted IMO.
Only time will really tell but I have a feeling PSA isn't going anywhere. The fact that they sold around 200 XS30 subs in less then 4 months should be a good indication of this.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

How many times do we really need to hear this about PSA not being around very long.
It should noted that the guys that own and run PSA Jim and Tom have been in the industry for a long time, probably as long if not longer then Brian from Rythmik. Both Jim and Tom worked for another small ID company many have probably heard of SVS. Tom was actually the "V" in SV.
So that's not really a valid argument IMO, secondly PSA believes in their product enough to give you a 5 year warranty on their amps. Rythmik only gives you a 2 year warranty.

And the last point I hear brought up a lot, is the lack of third party measurements. Most people love the reviews and measurements that Audioholics provides and often bring up their measurements when discussing subs. It should be noted that in their review of the VX15 they commented that the VX15 pretty much measured to exactly the same numbers that PSA claimed it would, so there's no reason to believe they would try to inflate the numbers of any of their other subs so any third party measurement should be very close to what PSA claims for their measured numbers.

Rythmik makes great subs, theres no question about that. But points I hear people bring up for reasons not to buy from PSA aren't really warranted IMO.
Only time will really tell but I have a feeling PSA isn't going anywhere. The fact that they sold around 200 XS30 subs in less then 4 months should be a good indication of this.

I completely agree. Tom and Jim are stand up guys that have been making positive contributions to the industry for a long long time. The fact that they split off together enhances their contribution. High quality, high value, top notch customer service for subs that provide fabulous sound quality. There are trade-offs, but I'm not going to ding PSA for being the new "name" on the block. Seriously, that company is not going anywhere, Rightfully so because they provide high value, honest representation, and top notch customer service on subs that perform. Concern of them folding would not enter my mind.

Newb01 does make a valid point that more users provide more history and 3rd party measurements. But the guys are so stand up that the 3rd party measurements aligned exactly with theirs. PSA rox, from a Rythmik fanboy.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:51 PM
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How many new business start out with industry vets ...and fail?

It is one thing to be an engineer etc. and another to run a business...

If being a great cook always amounted to a successful restaurant then there would be little need to be wary of newer companies smile.gif

I am NOT trying to say PSA does not put out a great product or that Tom and Jim are not going to be sainted as subwoofer demi gods tomorrow...

I am just saying a rational person when given two choices... A company with a more established product line and company history vs. a newer company... For me to invest in the new companies offering would take a compelling reason.

In my case...given the choices between PSA and Rythmik I did not have a truly compelling reason to go with PSA.

Not sure exactly why people are taking it as a personal insult but I think that my justifications are clear and rational. So when someone asks me to recommend a subwoofer (at this point in time) I am reluctant to suggest PSA.

My understanding is that Tom and Jim don't want to have the XV30 reviewed because it is already outselling supply...

Be that as it may...the ONLY negative I have heard about PSA is that their subs are not as pretty as some... I personally don't look seek my audio equiptment to be works of art... Function over form for me all the way... smile.gif
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:08 PM
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How many new business start out with industry vets ...and fail?

It is one thing to be an engineer etc. and another to run a business...

If being a great cook always amounted to a successful restaurant then there would be little need to be wary of newer companies)

It's not exactly like a cook who decides to run a business. In the case of PSA, they are engineers but also ran a successful business previously.

On the other hand....I think T and J's credentials do speak loudly enough, but there will always been a slight risk with a slightly different business model...the sub landscape has changed a bit since the earlier days of SVS

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Old 03-26-2013, 03:19 PM
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