TWO SVS PB12 Pluses vs ONE Seaton Submersive HP or ONE SVS PB13 Ultra? Which would you choose... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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For a room 20 feet wide (sub/subs to be located in front of room on either side of TV/front speakers) x 18 feet deep x 10 feet high and one wall open to Kitchen...and a $2,500 budget...

Would you rather have ONE Submersive HP or TWO SVS PB-12 Pluses or One SVS SB-13 Ultra?
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post #2 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 11:55 AM
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If its just those three options, I myself would lean toward the dual SVS Pluses. You'll have a better chance of getting a better freq response throught out the room with dual subwoofers. But thats a pretty big room and the SVS + may not be enough for you (Possibly). SVS SB13 Ultra is too small of a subwoofer to have much chance in that size room, the sealed Ultra needs a smaller room, where as the PB ultra would do much better.

I would also consider the PSA XS30 or XV30 subwoofers too, great performers. http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x
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post #3 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 12:22 PM
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Always go with dual subwoofers.
You'll get smoother bass response and help combating standing waves in your room.

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post #4 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 12:49 PM
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Two Rythmik FV15HPs, that will dominate all of those setups.
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post #5 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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They would also dominate my WALLET!!! smile.gif I'd be looking at ~$2,800. $2,400 for a Submersive or $2,600 for Two PB-12 Pluses is the MAX that I can afford right now.

I'm worried the PB 12 Pluses may not be enough bass???
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post #6 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 12:59 PM
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A shipped FV15HP isn't more expensive than a PB12 Plus (unless you want the gloss black finish) and its performance is measured to be better than the PB13 Ultra. That is very high bang for the buck.
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post #7 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I would also consider the PSA XS30 or XV30 subwoofers too, great performers. http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x

+1

The XS30 is like a poor man's Submersive.

Dual XV30's would be really sweet if you have the floor space

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post #8 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Always go with dual subwoofers.
You'll get smoother bass response and help combating standing waves in your room.

IMHO, it is not as simple as this. What if you only have 2 placement options and they do not give a good combined response? What if you don't have measurement gear to assist with the integration? There are rooms where a single sub can give a very good response. This is a single submersive in my room with no smoothing (60hz crossover)



When deciding on a subwoofer purchase, I think it is not only important to determine your current goals and what is most important to you (output, extension, size / WAF, response over multiple seats, features, etc.) but also try to figure out your future goals. When I was looking into a sub upgrade, my original plan was to get dual ~$1000 subs. After thinking about it, I realized that I would probably want to eventually upgrade again in a couple years. So I went with a one more expensive sub, instead of less expensive duals, with the plan to add a second later.

For the OPs original choices.

Not sure which SVS Ultra you were looking at. The title says PB13 but your post says SB13.

SB13 Ultra: Will have the least output, especially from 15hz to 30hz, but is the smallest so has the most WAF. It would also allow for the most flexibility in placement.

PB13 Ultra: Multiple tuning options give a lot of flexibility. Lower extension then PB12. Around tuning point, close to the output of the Submersive. Multiple people have commented that a single submersive is considerably better.

dual PB12-Plus: Again, multiple tuning options give a lot of flexibility. Potential for smoothest FR, especially across multiple seats. Except for deepest frequencies, probably similar output to a single PB13 Ultra.

submersive hp: I am biased because I own two, but probably has the most output at all frequencies. Widely considered to be one of the best individual production subs. Other then going DIY, very few people upgrade to a different sub.

The Rythmik and PSA subs are also great choices.

If you are willing to take the time, buying measurement gear can also offer significant improvements.

As I said earlier, try to determine your current goals, your priorities and possible future upgrades. Also, see if there is anyone local where you could see and hear the subs in person. Lastly, give each company (SVS, Seaton, PSA, HSU, JTR, Rhythmik) a call and discuss your situation. Sometimes a simple phone call can help you make a decision.

-Mike
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post #9 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 01:48 PM
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If you don't have the floorspace to properly locate duals, then I'd opt for the SubM. Or, if this room is mainly for you, and you are looking to optimize it for just/mainly one seat, then go for the SubM. I like the SB13U, but if you are looking at a single sub and debating between the SB13U and and a SubM, the SubM wins pretty much everyday of the week.

If you are looking for better bass around the room, and you have the ability to place subs where they will perform well, then duals are the way to go. The dual Pluses should be plenty for 3600 cubes, as the current gen Plus is not far off from the original BASH powered Ultra's. Unless you are looking at running films at reference all day long and/or are a serious bass head, you aren't likely to run across a "lack of bass." I run dual BASH ultra's in a 4,300 cubic foot open floor-plan room, that is really open to the rest of my house, and I have to keep an eye on the volume as I have knocked pictures off the wall, a plate off the kitchen counter, and driven my wife nuts.

This forum is a little bit of a reality distortion zone. If you aren't careful, it is very easy to talk yourself into imitating Popalock and building a system with sixteen 18" subs in a 1,500 cubic foot room. It just seems....rational, if you are on the forum too long.
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post #10 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 02:19 PM
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I don't see how a submersive has more spl than a PB13 ultra around tune. The mighty LMS 5400 which will have more output than a submersive has slightly less output than SVS at 16hz and 20hz and just starts getting ahead above 25hz. The single LMS 5400 will have more output than a submersive. Now it will extend deeper but at what levels before compressing? The best bang for buck would be the CHT VS 18.1's which are on sale for $1700 for duals including powerful amp. They have the same similar output as the svs and rythmik. Now you could get used subs in the classified here which I like better than all your options so far. There are dual DTS10's for $1800 and for $300 add amp. There are also Captivators for $1200-$1500 which again, add your own amp. These are the subs I would get.
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post #11 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

They would also dominate my WALLET!!! smile.gif I'd be looking at ~$2,800. $2,400 for a Submersive or $2,600 for Two PB-12 Pluses is the MAX that I can afford right now.

I'm worried the PB 12 Pluses may not be enough bass???

I've had my PB12-Plus for just over a year in a 3500 cu ft living room.....with 2 in your room, I think you'd be very happy. The train wreck scene in "Super 8" is phenomenal with this sub. Everything about the SVS is amazing quality....even the grille -plus you get a 5 year warranty on the whole package not just the driver. Call SVS and talk to Ed...he'll be nothing but honest with you.
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post #12 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

This forum is a little bit of a reality distortion zone. If you aren't careful, it is very easy to talk yourself into imitating Popalock and building a system with sixteen 18" subs in a 1,500 cubic foot room. It just seems....rational, if you are on the forum too long.

Yes it gets crazy. New posters are usually pushed into larger subwoofers than what they really need. I remember a thread where everyone was telling the OP to go with SVS Ultra or HSU VTF15H for his size room, come to find out he got a small SVS SB12 NSD and is crazy happy with and couldn't ask for more. Definition of Overkill.
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post #13 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Yes it gets crazy. New posters are usually pushed into larger subwoofers than what they really need. I remember a thread where everyone was telling the OP to go with SVS Ultra or HSU VTF15H for his size room, come to find out he got a small SVS SB12 NSD and is crazy happy with and couldn't ask for more. Definition of Overkill.

It is all about goals.
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post #14 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post

I've had my PB12-Plus for just over a year in a 3500 cu ft living room.....with 2 in your room, I think you'd be very happy. The train wreck scene in "Super 8" is phenomenal with this sub. Everything about the SVS is amazing quality....even the grille -plus you get a 5 year warranty on the whole package not just the driver. Call SVS and talk to Ed...he'll be nothing but honest with you.

A FV15HP is a step up over the PB12+ at a lower price, so I wouldn't really throw that sub into the mix. I'm sure SVS has good quality but considering the FV15HP can hang with a PB13 Ultra there's really no point in looking at the PB12+.
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post #15 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 03:25 PM
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He stated above that with shipping the pair of Rythmiks would be $2800 and out of budget....about $200 more than a pair of PB12's. No argument that the FV15 has more output but with a pair of PB12's in that room, I doubt he'll miss it plus he'll have the little perks like true wood veneer, DSP amp, better warranty etc.
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post #16 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trolly View Post

He stated above that with shipping the pair of Rythmiks would be $2800 and out of budget....about $200 more than a pair of PB12's. No argument that the FV15 has more output but with a pair of PB12's in that room, I doubt he'll miss it plus he'll have the little perks like true wood veneer, DSP amp, better warranty etc.

Well if the OP is located in the US he's mistaken. The FV15HP can be had for less then the PB12+, so once again it doesn't make sense to even consider the PB12+ unless he wants to pay more for less performance.

A single FV15HP with the 550watt amp option is only about $1320 shipped. A PB12+ is $1399 shipped.
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post #17 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Well if the OP is located in the US he's mistaken. The FV15HP can be had for less then the PB12+, so once again it doesn't make sense to even consider the PB12+ unless he wants to pay more for less performance.

A single FV15HP with the 550watt amp option is only about $1320 shipped. A PB12+ is $1399 shipped.

I can only guess he doesn't want the lesser amp and vinyl wrap of the Rythmik your promoting.....you're selling the wrong person.
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post #18 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 03:58 PM
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Yeah I know, I don't think it's vinyl wrapped. isn't it just a matte black painted finish?
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post #19 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:07 PM
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I took this from Rythmik's website:

"We also provide a range of finishes. Our range of attractive and excellent value vinyl finishes including:
walnut
black oak"
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post #20 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:09 PM
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$2,574 for two Rythmik FV15HP's shipped. Case closed:)

Oppo BDP103, Sony 70" LED, Definitive Technology Mythos STS Towers, Definitive Technology Mythos 9's x3, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Furman Elite 15, Harmony Ultimate Hub and Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #21 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:17 PM
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Well I remember when I was looking at going with dual FV15HP's there was a matte black finish too. So I'm sure if the OP didn't want a black oak vinyl wrap Brian could have one made with just a matte black finish.
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post #22 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

$2,574 for two Rythmik FV15HP's shipped. Case closed:)

Pretty much agree... Although...I really want a S2 or HP Sub. I have the FV15HP... It is sort of like getting the Accura and wanting the Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. There are for sure diminishing returns at that point but I dream at night of 2-4 S2 in a medium enclosed space with 5 equal speakers and a 200 WPC amp connected to seperates...

Sorry..back to reality...
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post #23 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:29 PM
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Pretty much agree... Although...I really want a S2 or HP Sub. I have the FV15HP... It is sort of like getting the Accura and wanting the Lexus or Mercedes-Benz. There are for sure diminishing returns at that point but I dream at night of 2-4 S2 in a medium enclosed space with 5 equal speakers and a 200 WPC amp connected to seperates...

Sorry..back to reality...

Hahaha its nice to have dreams wink.gif
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post #24 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:30 PM
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$2,574 for two Rythmik FV15HP's shipped. Case closed:)

Both with the H600PEQ3?
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post #25 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 04:30 PM
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Yes

Oppo BDP103, Sony 70" LED, Definitive Technology Mythos STS Towers, Definitive Technology Mythos 9's x3, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Furman Elite 15, Harmony Ultimate Hub and Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #26 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 05:29 PM
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Yes

I give up....how'd you get 2 shipped for less than advertised on their site?
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post #27 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

Yes

I give up....how'd you get 2 shipped for less than advertised on their site?
There's a multi sub discount. 10% off each sub. so 20% off the total. I have dual Rythmik FV15HPs with the 600 watt amp; Brian was kind enough to apply the multi sub discount when I bought my 2nd one 6 months after the first too, very nice, Go ahead and get the 550w amp. For one sub it is like a .5 db difference. That's 200bux wisely saved.

Clearly the Seaton is the highest end highest output sub in your list, But if you don't see getting to dual SubMs in 6-12 months, then I think it is better to go with two lesser subs. Either Dual FV15HPs or the Dual PSA XS-30s.

I prefer the FV15HPs but the PSA's would be beastly as well. Go Rythmik IMO.
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post #28 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 06:37 PM
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http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F25.html

Rythmik F25 available. 1399 intro 1499 regular. Looks like an incredible value. I'd end up there if I were in the market today.
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post #29 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 06:48 PM
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I just saw that!! I almost fell out of my chair.. Debating selling my gloss black FV15HP and picking up two of those babies...eek.gif

Oppo BDP103, Sony 70" LED, Definitive Technology Mythos STS Towers, Definitive Technology Mythos 9's x3, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Furman Elite 15, Harmony Ultimate Hub and Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #30 of 51 Old 03-21-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

I just saw that!! I almost fell out of my chair.. Debating selling my gloss black FV15HP and picking up two of those babies...eek.gif

Fortunately for me my wife came by and wiped all the drool off my face. Did you see the "Honey Oak Finish" available in the description. I'd like to see a pic of that.

Piano black for you huh, nice.
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