Velo vs SVS choice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-23-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone,

Im looking to replace an old sub I built long ago, and rebuilt.. and.. rebuilt again... ect ect.

Between the Velodyne EQ Max-12 and the SVS PB12-NSD. This sub will be used in a medium sized room for 90% music, 10% games/tv/movies. The SVS will run me a couple of hundred dollars more (with shipping and retail price), but I am leaning towards that one. My music taste is all over the map, but I mainly listen to blues rock, ska, reggae, and funk. I am a growing audiophile so I would like something with great SQ, while still hopefully getting me a good amount of output if I decide to turn it up.

I have looked at HSU research also, but the cost of shipping and wait time (and appearance) put it out of the running, along with any Outlaw product.

Has anyone out there heard these two subs and could chime in on a recommendation? Are there any other subwoofers out there (<1000$ shipped in Canada) I should be looking at also?


I will be running this with a Marantz SR-6006 receiver, paired with Swans Diva 6.1 mains.

Current Setup:

Marantz SR6006
Swans Diva 6.1 mains
Sounsplinter RL-P15 DIY sub (powered by EP2500)
Music Hall MMF2.2 turntable, Grado GT, Acrylic platter
Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Onkyo C-7070
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post #2 of 21 Old 03-23-2013, 08:20 PM
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The only other one that comes to mind would be the Rythmik F12. Servo controlled and sealed supposed to be pretty good for music. I think they ship to Canada but I'm not sure it the cost would be a killer. Good luck with the search.

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post #3 of 21 Old 03-23-2013, 09:16 PM
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The PB12 is a superior choice....it will give you much more output below 30Hz than the Velodyne by far. Velodyne EQ subs tend to roll off severely below 30Hz, and the 12 inch model is no exception. With the mostly music listening you are doing, under 30Hz response isn't as important but even so, SVS is known for their superbly flat accurate response and low distortion

As for the other US brands, the cost of shipping + wait time + brokerage fees + the potential hassle of warranty/repair issues really kills the appeal when trying to import brands like Hsu or Rhythmik. In most cases, going with a SVS is so much more practical (and it's not as if SVS doesn't make awesome subs anyway)

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post #4 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ive looked at the Rythmiks also, nice subs.. pain in the ass and beyond my price range when it comes to getting them into Canada (as far as I can tell so far).

I really do like the SVS, the only reason I was looking at the Velodyne was because I can find the EQ Max 12 in my local stereo shop for 699$ (and I know the owner would give me an even better deal). The SVS is 749$ plus shipping, so it came to around 810$ before taxes, plus the wait time to get it in. Im kind of impatient haha. But considering this will be the only sub I hope to buy for a long time, the SVS seems to be a better choice with more headroom and performance.

Current Setup:

Marantz SR6006
Swans Diva 6.1 mains
Sounsplinter RL-P15 DIY sub (powered by EP2500)
Music Hall MMF2.2 turntable, Grado GT, Acrylic platter
Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Onkyo C-7070
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post #5 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 11:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKine View Post

I am a growing audiophile so I would like something with great SQ, while still hopefully getting me a good amount of output if I decide to turn it up.

---snip---

Below from your next post.

Quote:
Ive looked at the Rythmiks also, nice subs.. pain in the ass and beyond my price range when it comes to getting them into Canada (as far as I can tell so far).

Just saying, it all goes with being an audiophile. If it ain't worth the effort, then it's not worth having. After a few years of chasing this hobby, you'll get use to doing some really, really, strange things that none of your buddies would ever think of doing. biggrin.gif

As to your question, and yes, I'm aware that my recommendation is outside your posted choices, I'd go with a pair of Klipsch, RW-12D's because you'd be getting a lot of what you want in an affordable, delivered from Newegg, dual sub package.
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post #6 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
... This sub will be used in a medium sized room for 90% music, 10% games/tv/movies. ... I am a growing audiophile so I would like something with great SQ, while still hopefully getting me a good amount of output if I decide to turn it up. ... Are there any other subwoofers out there (<1000$ shipped in Canada) I should be looking at also?
Velodyne EQ-Max 12
- ported
- 12" driver
- 225W RMS
- 25Hz @ -3dB

The SVS PB-1000 ($499 + shipping + taxes) will outperform the Velodyne, and it's only $499 (plus shipping and taxes) through sonicboomaudio.com:
- ported
- 10" driver
- 300W RMS
- 19Hz @ -3dB

If you want something that may offer more "audiophile" performance than the PB-1000 while still besting the Velodyne, the SVS SB12-NSD ($649 + shipping + taxes) is worth considering:
- sealed
- 12" driver
- 400W RMS
- 24Hz @ -3dB
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As to your question, and yes, I'm aware that my recommendation is outside your posted choices, I'd go with a pair of Klipsch, RW-12D's because you'd be getting a lot of what you want in an affordable, delivered from Newegg, dual sub package.

newegg.com is out of the question for most Canadians, they make it nearly impossible to order from unless you have a US address and US credit card. You basically need somebody in the US to order it for you and have it shipped to their address.

newegg.ca is not anything close.

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post #8 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Well then, we'll just have to move Newegg over to the "RUDE!" column. tongue.gif

Can you have it shipped to one of those Canadian friendly, "Post Office Box" locations, drive and bring it across the border yourself locations?

The personal effort and the drive will be well worth the story you'll share with you buddies as you share the story over what ever it is you share with your buddies.
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post #9 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Velodyne EQ-Max 12
- ported
- 12" driver
- 225W RMS
- 25Hz @ -3dB


Velodyne is usually pretty good at meeting their spec measurements but the EQ Max 15 fell short of their 23 Hz rating considerably http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/eq-max-15/eq-max-15-measurements

I would imagine the 12 inch not coming anywhere close to 25Hz either

We all know the SVS measures as well or better than their rated specs

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post #10 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I would imagine the 12 inch not coming anywhere close to 25Hz either

Currently, we're running a pair of eighteen year old ported subs with replaced 12" driver/radiators that easily do +/- 3dB at 23dB. eek.gif Despite rumors to the contrary, it's definitely doable.
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Currently, we're running a pair of eighteen year old ported subs with replaced 12" driver/radiators that easily do +/- 3dB at 23dB. eek.gif Despite rumors to the contrary, it's definitely doable.

Not sure why you posted this. All I am saying is that Velodyne's spec of 25 Hz is probably grossly exaggerated given that their own EQ Max 15 inch model is spec'ed for 23 Hz but in actual measurements, it only went down to 29Hz

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post #12 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 12:54 PM
 
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A 12" is a vary doable <25Hz.



(non- negotiable, WAF; no room treatments; allowed)

The reason I posted, I was responding to your lack of faith in a 12" driver when you posted:

Quote:
I would imagine the 12 inch not coming anywhere close to 25Hz either

FWIW, I'm a "Literalist" and I respond directly to the comment quoted and 12" drivers are more capable then some are willing to give them credit for.

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post #13 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
The reason I posted, I was responding to your lack of faith in a 12" driver when you posted:
Quote:
I would imagine the 12 inch not coming anywhere close to 25Hz either
FWIW, I'm a "Literalist" and I respond directly to the comment quoted ...
The original comment was:
Quote:
... the EQ Max 15 fell short of their 23 Hz rating considerably ... I would imagine the 12 inch not coming anywhere close to 25Hz either
The key phrase is "the 12 inch", not "a 12 inch". A literalist would have understood "the 12 inch" in the given context to mean "Velodyne's 12-inch EQ Max", and not "any 12 inch subwoofer from any company".

You responded directly to what you imagined had been written, not to what had actually been written.
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post #14 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Crossing the border to pick up isnt an option for me, so I will stick to something easily available in Canada.

I know as a general rule of thumb a sealed sub will be more accurate and musical, but its usually followed by a decrease in output.

How much of a difference in output should I expect comparing the PB12 and the SB12?

Current Setup:

Marantz SR6006
Swans Diva 6.1 mains
Sounsplinter RL-P15 DIY sub (powered by EP2500)
Music Hall MMF2.2 turntable, Grado GT, Acrylic platter
Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Onkyo C-7070
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post #15 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 05:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKine View Post

I know as a general rule of thumb a sealed sub will be more accurate and musical, but its usually followed by a decrease in output.

How much of a difference in output should I expect comparing the PB12 and the SB12?

For musical situations, I suspect that unless trying to drive off the demons of evil, the neighbors or a loved one, even if duplicating "1812 Overture," you're not going miss out on anything,

(I will suggest that you might not be replicating Heavy Metal sound, front row left, in front of the main stadium sound bank; 140, blast your ears out, dB.)

Either sealed or vented, musically, expectedly you'll get more than a normal person would expect. For most normal everyday systems, the overall system will become the limiting factor, not the subwoofers.

In my opinion, where subwoofers come up short is in Home Theater and then it's because someone is trying to achieve a continuous, greater than >100dB response.

When one asks a question of your kind, in real terms, any responder needs to know how loud are you expecting to go?
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post #16 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Occasionally?

Pretty darn loud.


A few years ago I would have told you I wanted to earth to fracture and my house to start falling over because of the SPL.. Hence the reason why I currently use a SoundSplinter RL-p15 in a large ported with some heavy power going to it (but my lord does is sound terrible..). Now? not so much. But I would like to ability to turn it up nice and neighbour anoyingly loud from time to time without worrying I'm going to damage the unit, or run out of output if at all possible.

But, my main focus is music, so I suppose I should be more inclined to do whats best for that.

Current Setup:

Marantz SR6006
Swans Diva 6.1 mains
Sounsplinter RL-P15 DIY sub (powered by EP2500)
Music Hall MMF2.2 turntable, Grado GT, Acrylic platter
Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Onkyo C-7070
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post #17 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKine View Post

Hence the reason why I currently use a SoundSplinter RL-p15 in a large ported with some heavy power going to it (but my lord does is sound terrible..).

When you explored why the SoundSplinter RL-p 15 sounded so bad, what did you come up with? Can you buy a premade or flat pack (DIY), 4^ft cabinet, along with some foam, in which to drop the driver into and go sealed?

I stopped by SoundSplinter's website and if vented, they recommend a 10 3^ft, net volume box and for sealed, they recommend a 4.6 ^3ft box. How large is your vented box.

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post #18 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Its just a large driver with a heavy cone, so its able to hit low and loud but not be as musical as I prefer.

Its been in all kinds of enclosures over the years, right now its in a 8.5 cubic ported. But up until recently it was in the recommended 4.6 sealed.

Current Setup:

Marantz SR6006
Swans Diva 6.1 mains
Sounsplinter RL-P15 DIY sub (powered by EP2500)
Music Hall MMF2.2 turntable, Grado GT, Acrylic platter
Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Onkyo C-7070
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 08:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKine View Post

Its been in all kinds of enclosures over the years, right now its in a 8.5 cubic ported. But up until recently it was in the recommended 4.6 sealed.

Well, reads like nobody can say you didn't try.

With all of your above comments, I think you need to step up your choice level as the subs you're asking about, ain't gonna do it for ya. My read on what you posted, you're gonna want/need about twice what the subs you listed ("...comparing the PB12 and the SB12?") are capable of.

I think you'd be happier with a 15" sub; either a PSA or a Rythmik.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 08:11 PM
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I own the eq12. I think it is a decent sub for the price I paid. I managed to get it $409.99 in canada. I think they are going clearance soon at futureshop as they took them off their website for quite some time so you might want to wait and see what kind of a deal you can get there. I used the eq on the sub and the avr with the sub eq being used first and it definitely sounds better than I was expecting. I used to get an ugly node at the seating position where it was so boomy if you lowered your head, now its gone. I have no doubt that the svs is quite a bit better but I decided to try the velo.
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post #21 of 21 Old 03-24-2013, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Well, reads like nobody can say you didn't try.

With all of your above comments, I think you need to step up your choice level as the subs you're asking about, ain't gonna do it for ya. My read on what you posted, you're gonna want/need about twice what the subs you listed ("...comparing the PB12 and the SB12?") are capable of.

I think you'd be happier with a 15" sub; either a PSA or a Rythmik.


Im going to opposite of this current setup. I know that I wont be getting near the output I have been with the PB12 or SB12. I want a sub that will blend well with my mains and just complete the system rather than over extending it like it is now. I would really like to audition the SVS, but there is no where to do so as far as I know. So I have to go off of opinion and reviews, I think the PS12 would make me a happy guy.

Later down the road if I feel it doesnt have the output I want ill pick up another (if my budget allows). I like the sub 20hz ability (even though I wont push it that low very often), and I know that SVS are good solid performers with good value. Which is what im looking for.


Thanks for all the responses everyone!

Current Setup:

Marantz SR6006
Swans Diva 6.1 mains
Sounsplinter RL-P15 DIY sub (powered by EP2500)
Music Hall MMF2.2 turntable, Grado GT, Acrylic platter
Cambridge DacMagic Plus
Onkyo C-7070
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