Looking to buy some subs SB13 Ultra Vs. CHT SS18.2 vs ?? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Well, looking at performance, I just don't see how this spec could be considered very honest:

"The SS-18.1 has a response curve of +/- 3 dB from 23 Hz to 200 Hz with a natural, 12dB per octave roll-off below 23 Hz to match room gain"

That +/-3db must be based on significant room gain. I know Def Tech does the same kind of thing, but that doesn't make it right.

Well, if you read the their forums you would know how they get that but thanks for trying to bring up old crap again. My CHT subs were flat to 6hz in my room, like my other sealed systems, go figure.
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post #32 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I don't know, maybe if Craig goes bonkers and shuts it all down, you could jump in and offer customer service to everyone thats been left out in the cold.

I would say regardless of whether the CHT subwoofer is a great performer or not compared to the SVS, HSU or whatever isnt the point. Stability is, which from what i've seen isn't all that great. Hopefully it lasts a long time and CHT is successful, but I don't see how anyone could recommend them to anyone, where theres a chance the poster could be left with worthless subwoofers and no one there to help. He'll have huge paper weights.

We've already seen what happens to customers with other unstable companies and we seen the same "haters gonna hate" type comments.

If the OP wants to go with CHT than fine, but he should know the risks and not just get blind sided one day when his amp dies and Craig isn't there anymore.

Just like I said before. My experience with CHT means nothing to the haters and you just proved my point. Thanks bro!!wink.gif

Craig has personally told me that wether he stays open or not he will give me and all others who need it the same customer service. I feel very comfortable.

I agree that the OP should know what he's getting himself into when making a decision. I want him to know that even though many see CHT as the equivalent of a loony tune selling speakers the reality is far from it. He's such an honest guy he lets everybody in on his every move. Do I agree with everything he's done? No but he has earned my respect.

If the OP has any second thought about order from CHT than he shouldn't cause I'm not trying to twist anybodies arm.

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post #33 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, if you read the their forums you would know how they get that but thanks for trying to bring up old crap again. My CHT subs were flat to 6hz in my room, like my other sealed systems, go figure.

You want to tell the whole story of that, too, instead of spinning things like Craig does, leaving out important details? How many subs do you have in what size room? What kind of EQ system? Don't call me out and do the exact same thing I'm objecting to and then not expect to get called out in return.

I don't want to rehash all of this. My point was that CHT's product pages are misleading in response to your characterization of CHT as being honest when it comes to performance. And one shouldn't have to dig through the forums (where's Craig isn't always forthcoming, either) to find out the details. So "honest"? I guess if one's standard is a car dealer level of honesty, which according to him is one of his primary businesses.

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post #34 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 02:51 PM
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I purchased one of Craig's CS 18.1 sealed subs.They were on sale due to version 2 being introduced.

A few days after I placed my order , I received a call from Craig,telling me that On the sub I had originally ordered,the amp was no longer being made.I was given a free $100 upgrade to a better amp from Craig at no charge.

Ya,I'd say that's good customer service.

Alan

As a side note,

I've ordered an item in the passed on line(not an audio or video product). That company charged my card and the item was never shipped. After a quick call to my bank ,and a few days time, the charge was taken off my card .Most banks offer credit card protection so that's not an issue here.
Even if Craig were to go out of business somewhere down the line,and the driver in my sub were to fail, there are so many options for a replacement driver( for those not afraid to use a screw driver) that it would be a walk in the park to repair.

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post #35 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 03:20 PM
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Positive experiences Cruzin (nice job by Craig btw) and Reddig (whatever they were) do mean something. However, and I say this for any company, one has to look at all the experiences if possible and arrive at their own assessment. Two examples come to mind. Recently a person has had problems with their Gizmo and wrote about it. Now, I know it's discontinued and past warranty, but IMO some sort of a response would have been nice to see even if to suggest a repair place. The short lived WAF-1 speakers also come to mind. Not a few folks found that the grills didn't stay on being susceptible to changes in humidity. I think reliable replacements ought to have been provided or a way to retrofit things. But there were no replacement grills to my knowledge. Singular data points are fine but they are only apart of the big picture. That said, CHT appears to be more consistently positive WRat CS.

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post #36 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 03:51 PM
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What is it with people who are not willing to accept responsibility for their actions? It's not like people here just randomly picked a name out of a hat and said "hey lets start talking crap about this guy"!
The only reason people talk about Craig and his paranoia induced looney tunes rants is because of Craig himself. All the fallout, the ridicule, the lack of trust, the comments, all the 'hate' is a result of Craig's own actions/comments. Let's not forget who created this mess. Yet, you talk to him and the fault lies on half of the country, Obama, the democrats, socialists, Castro, Chairman Mao, Satan, The Beatles, etc...
So he makes some nice subs. So what? There are tons more out there who make great subs and are stable, professional companies. I've never owned any of their subs, and I would not recommend them, but that is based on the owner himself. Good subs are not hard to find.
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post #37 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 04:05 PM
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Umm, we're talking about CHT subs,because the OP asked about them. Did you read the first post in this thread ?

The Op didnt ask about Craig ,nor his politics.He asked about his subs. This leads to the comments on his subs. Simple really.

Alan

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post #38 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 04:20 PM
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Could be that simple, but in reality it's not that way. People buy things based on so many things, not just the object itself.
So let's say Hillary runs for President in 2016. Let's say she wins. Then what? He could annouce another fake shut down, then blame half of America. Or maybe he won't. Or maybe he will sell the company. Or maybe he will partner with someone else. Get my drift? There is no stability. That can't be good for any consumer thinking about buying a product from them.

Anyway, I apologize to the OP for the derailment. Good luck with your decision!
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post #39 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 05:21 PM
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Your comment "people buy things based on so many things" ,I agree with 100%. Quality,value,performance are a few of those things.On those counts,CHT subs are a fantastic purchase IMHO.

I'll leave my comments at that and wish the OP many happy hours of listening whatever his decision my be.



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post #40 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 06:03 PM
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How about when CHT actually shipped me an amp to use with my SS.18.1's....for free! And let me pay for it 2 weeks later when I got paid.
To me...that's going way above and beyond...talk about customer service...and yes, I am a repeat customer after that. Just sayin...smile.gif
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post #41 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 09:05 PM
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Here's something that could help, too. So Mark Seaton and Kevin (not sure last name) came up with a mod for the Dayton amp that significantly helps to improve the response of the SS 18.1s:

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Chase-SS18.X-Upgrade-Amp-6176968

I think it would be well worth getting the modded amp, unless CHT's new amp accomplishes the same thing (I don't know anything about it). As you can see, there's quite an improvement between the default response of the sub (red) and that with the modded amp (green):


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post #42 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 09:13 PM
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Too funny! And here we go.

Bottom line, dual 18's will pound a single 13 to submission whether you trust the company is up to you. If not move on.

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post #43 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 09:27 PM
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I was one of the people that tested the mq600 amp with my ss-18.2. I found it to be way better then the dayton, however I did not own measurement equipment at that time and could not get any scientific data. I have since sold my 18.2 to pursue DiY endeavors. It is a very good sub for the $$ though, especially if WAF isn't a factor. I think you would be plenty happy with a pair of 18.t. You might want to check out a pair of VS18.1 as well.
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post #44 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 10:50 PM
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One more thing, I had a flat response to 6 hz with one sub, adding more did not get more extension, just more spl at the same extension. This is basic sub knowledge.

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post #45 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 11:07 PM
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Just got a PC12-Plus and I was shocked at how good it was for the price. Granted I came from a Paradigm DSP-3100 but it was a whole other level dealing with one of these. I'm now debating weather to upgrade to the PC13-Ultra or just go dual PC12-Plus but its most likely never going to be enough.

So yeah, I'm voting for anything SVS at this point.
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post #46 of 55 Old 04-04-2013, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

One more thing, I had a flat response to 6 hz with one sub, adding more did not get more extension, just more spl at the same extension. This is basic sub knowledge.

I've already said in this thread that the CHT sealed subs are good subs, but they will likely need good EQing and will need help from room gain. That's the truth, isn't it? So I don't understand where you are going with this, and why you feel the need to assert that you have basic sub knowledge. I didn't imply that you didn't. But you still haven't told the whole story there and only partially answered my question. Flat to 5hz is not that impressive from one sub if the output is not very usable or if the room is such that most people can't duplicate the performance.

Meanwhile,back to my original question of honesty, flat to 5hz in your room does not counter the fact that CHT's specs are misleading in their product description. Although it is an example of someone else only providing partial information to make performance look really good, instead of being perfectly clear how that was achieved. So thanks for making it clear by repeatedly ducking the issue and trying to cloud it with misinformation that your definition of honesty when it comes to performance might be different from what many of us might expect.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #47 of 55 Old 04-05-2013, 05:38 AM
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All sealed subs need EQ and room gain to be flat low. Some come with built in EQ in their amps to smooth their response or extend it. The CHTs don't. Not misleading, common knowledge. Basically the company is a hands on type so if there are any questions they will help in great detail if need be. Every company runs risk of closing in today's economy for whatever reasons. I have friends who are retiring just because of our new health care system and they are very successful and talented surgeons so who knows.

You are trying to make me out like something I am not. Misleading you? All I did was buy subs and place them in room and showed their raw response in room which has shown to have normal room gain for my kind of room. I have lots of posts and anyone can look them up so stop trying to make me out to be something I am not.

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post #48 of 55 Old 04-05-2013, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You are trying to make me out like something I am not. Misleading you? All I did was buy subs and place them in room and showed their raw response in room which has shown to have normal room gain for my kind of room. I have lots of posts and anyone can look them up so stop trying to make me out to be something I am not.

If the CHT 18.1 is flat in your room to 5hz with one sub, with no EQ, that's far from the typical response most people can expect.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #49 of 55 Old 04-05-2013, 01:37 PM
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Oops, never owned the 18.1, I thought the OP wanted the 18.2. Listen, if the SVS sub has enough spl at the frequencies he wants then I would choose it. It is smaller and looks better. If it is not enough output then the CHT 18.2 is great. If someone does not like the company then I would get a power sound XS-30.

My 18.2 was -6 dBs at 10hz with no EQ. My 190v2 were the same and my 13av2's are -3 dBs at 10hz. My F-20's were -10 dBs at 10hz and my DTS-10 was -1 dBs at 10hz.

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post #50 of 55 Old 04-05-2013, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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MKtheater you have had some awesome subs. My experience so far has been 2 MFW15's. Time to change that. I am heavily leaning towards 2 ss18.1's Hopefully it will sound fine with no EQ until I can save up some money for one.
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post #51 of 55 Old 04-05-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Suburban1 View Post

MKtheater you have had some awesome subs. My experience so far has been 2 MFW15's. Time to change that. I am heavily leaning towards 2 ss18.1's Hopefully it will sound fine with no EQ until I can save up some money for one.

Do you have a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ or better? If so, that will help.

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post #52 of 55 Old 04-06-2013, 06:03 AM
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FWIW:
- My buddy has dual 18.1s w/ the Dayton amp in a ~2,025 cu.ft., basement (carpet over concrete) room. He is flat to ~10Hz and he gets monster (literally couch-shaking) output in his space.
- I have dual 18.1s w/ the Dayton amp in a ~3,400 cu.ft. room, basement (laminate over concrete) room. I'm flat to ~17Hz and I get very good output in my space.

The OP's room is ~1,800 cu.ft., and the MQ-600 amp puts out more power (600W/ch. into 8 ohms) than the Dayton (~475W/ch. into 8 ohms). IMO, a pair of 18.1s in his space should provide the kind of performance my buddy gets. But the OP's room is open to the rest of the house, which may diminish the level of performance. By how much, I dunno. But it should still be pretty solid.
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post #53 of 55 Old 04-06-2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

FWIW:
- My buddy has dual 18.1s w/ the Dayton amp in a ~2,025 cu.ft., basement (carpet over concrete) room. He is flat to ~10Hz and he gets monster (literally couch-shaking) output in his space.
- I have dual 18.1s w/ the Dayton amp in a ~3,400 cu.ft. room, basement (laminate over concrete) room. I'm flat to ~17Hz and I get very good output in my space.

The OP's room is ~1,800 cu.ft., and the MQ-600 amp puts out more power (600W/ch. into 8 ohms) than the Dayton (~475W/ch. into 8 ohms). IMO, a pair of 18.1s in his space should provide the kind of performance my buddy gets. But the OP's room is open to the rest of the house, which may diminish the level of performance. By how much, I dunno. But it should still be pretty solid.

Eljaycanuck, you have Audyssey MultEQ, too, don't you? That can make a big difference. The data indicates the 18.1s have about a 18db drop from 80hz to 20hz. Room gain can make up part of that with the right placement--and having a sealed room can make a big difference in that as well, particularly a smaller room.

So MultEQ on the receiver or a separate EQ would be important to have. This isn't just me saying this. Craig has recommended this on his forums, and he specifically asked me about it when I ordered my 18.1s.

This is also why the modified Dayton amp that Mark Seaton was involved in designing that I linked to above makes a lot of sense. The much flatter response it provides could make a HUGE difference.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #54 of 55 Old 04-06-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Eljaycanuck, you have Audyssey MultEQ, too, don't you? That can make a big difference.
Yes, my AVR has MultEQ and it does help boost the bottom end. I do agree that it's a good idea to have MultEQ (regular, XT or XT32) - or some other form of room correction software - with these subs.

(I also like the fact that the Dayton amps have PEQ, something the MQ-600 amp doesn't have.)
Quote:
The data indicates the 18.1s have about a 18db drop from 80hz to 20hz. Room gain can make up part of that with the right placement--and having a sealed room can make a big difference in that as well, particularly a smaller room.
I agree that these subs seem better suited to smaller and/or sealed rooms. But my room isn't all that small, and it's not entirely sealed, either - the door at the top of the stairs (to the main floor) is always open - but I still get pretty solid performance from these subs. (Nowhere near the performance my buddy gets, but still more than enough to satisfy me.)

How any of this translates into performance in the OP's space, I can't say.

Then again, would a single SB13-Ultra work any better in the OP's space? Dunno...
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post #55 of 55 Old 04-07-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep the Denon 2112
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