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post #271 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

I can't give a link, the one I am using is 12vdc @ 500mA, I had it in a box of old stuff I've collected over the years. I think it was from an old Linksys switch...
I also have it plugged into a triggered outlet that only turns on when the main zone is on.

One important detail, verify positive and negative with a meter before hooking it up...

ok thanks! why does polarity matter?
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post #272 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

how about this? Does it have the correct plugin?

That would work, however, you don't need the plug. The MiniDSP has a power connector that uses screw clamp terminals. You would need to cut the plug off strip the wire and connect the wires to the MiniDSP power connector. A power supply with flat twin lead wire is a little easier to use.

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post #273 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

ok thanks! why does polarity matter?

Current flowing the wrong way WILL damage circuits.

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post #274 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:47 AM
 
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Yea I understand that, I was just wanting to know what guys were using...didnt want to pick up a cheapy. Thanks for the help!!

Maybe I'll use the one that came with the Anti-Mode.
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post #275 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Current flowing the wrong way WILL damage circuits.

ok i was just curious because most 2 prong power sources do not require polarity matching.
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post #276 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I'll use the one that came with the Anti-Mode.

are you ordering the same unit?
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post #277 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Current flowing the wrong way WILL damage circuits.

Take that first diode out real fast.

The polarity is printed on the wall wart. You'll see a symbol with the outer casing marked and the center casing marked with a -/+ indicator. Usually, the positive connection is the center pin of the power transformer plug.
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post #278 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 12:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

are you ordering the same unit?

It reads like I will be, so yes; an unbalanced, 2x4 miniDSP, Rev b with a "Stereo 2 Way Advanced" module.

I'm not really sure if this is the right one or if I should with with the "2.1 advanced." confused.gif

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post #279 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

ok i was just curious because most 2 prong power sources do not require polarity matching.

Two prong AC power may not require polarity because AC is Alternating current. It flips back and forth at 60Hz (60 times per second) at least here in the US.
With DC (Direct Current) current flows in one direction only. With DC positive and negative are very important. As BeeMan said, it's usually the first Diode that goes.

BeeMan, I went with the 2.1 Advanced. It will allow stereo subs, the others will only do mono. If your AVR only does mono subs the 2.1 Advanced will still work...

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post #280 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Two prong AC power may not require polarity because AC is Alternating current. It flips back and forth at 60Hz (60 times per second) at least here in the US.
With DC (Direct Current) current flows in one direction only. With DC positive and negative are very important. As BeeMan said, it's usually the first Diode that goes.

BeeMan, I went with the 2.1 Advanced. It will allow stereo subs, the others will only do mono. If your AVR only does mono subs the 2.1 Advanced will still work...

i dont understand why minidsp would not include a one way plug in style power supply? now I have to get a volt meter out and verify polarity.... seems dumb as hell imo.
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post #281 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

i dont understand why minidsp would not include a one way plug in style power supply? now I have to get a volt meter out and verify polarity.... seems dumb as hell imo.

Doing it this way, the end user has options and it helps keep production costs down...

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post #282 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

ok i was just curious because most 2 prong power sources do not require polarity matching.

Actually they do. The difference, although alternate current (A/C) the electricity still needs a hot and neutral lead. Hence the large prong on outlet plugs and power cords as the white or neutral wire becomes the equivalent of a ground and equipment (appliances) base their ground wiring needs on this idea. The large blade is the neutral (earth) lead.

Polarized outlet plug:



You can thank the confusing nature of the English language for the above as the term polarity has many usages. In this case, opposing physical attributes.

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post #283 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 02:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

BeeMan, I went with the 2.1 Advanced. It will allow stereo subs, the others will only do mono. If your AVR only does mono subs the 2.1 Advanced will still work...

Thanks. Our AVR has two sub-outs but they're mono. Maybe one day the Marantz, SR5007 may blow up and need replacing with an AVR that has stereo sub-outs. So if it's the better way to go, I'll go that way.

Is there benefit buying both the "Advanced" and the "Advanced, 2.1 and as the need arises, pick-n-choosing which module to use or is that just getting stupid for reasons of being clueless?
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post #284 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks. Our AVR has two sub-outs but they're mono. Maybe one day the Marantz, SR5007 may blow up and need replacing with an AVR that has stereo sub-outs. So if it's the better way to go, I'll go that way.

Is there benefit buying both the "Advanced" and the "Advanced, 2.1 and as the need arises, pick-n-choosing which module to use or is that just getting stupid for reasons of being clueless?

I believe the 2.1 will work with your current setup and allow growth into a setup for stereo sub eq'ing.
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post #285 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 02:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I believe the 2.1 will work with your current setup and allow growth into a setup for stereo sub eq'ing.

Works for me.
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post #286 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Actually they do. The difference, although alternate current (A/C) the electricity still needs a hot and neutral lead. Hence the large prong on outlet plugs and power cords as the white or neutral wire becomes the equivalent of a ground and equipment (appliances) base their ground wiring needs on this idea. The large blade is the neutral (earth) lead.

Polarized outlet plug:



You can thank the confusing nature of the English language for the above as the term polarity has many usages. In this case, opposing physical attributes.

-

Actually, if you look in your circuit breaker box, you will find the Neutral and ground are the same. The difference being the ground should never have current flowing through it, where as the neutral will have current flowing through it. The reason for polarized AC outlets is one of safety.
You can't get a shock off of neutral - when you do the physical design of an appliance you have to put a switch somewhere - if you put the hot (active) side on the other side of the switch and the rest of the circuit (fuses, transformers, whatever) on the neutral side of the switch then when things are off there are fewer things that could shock you when the device is off.
You can file down the wider, neutral, prong so it fits in the hot side of an outlet and plug it in that way. It will still work, it just won't be safe.

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post #287 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Is there benefit buying both the "Advanced" and the "Advanced, 2.1 and as the need arises, pick-n-choosing which module to use or is that just getting stupid for reasons of being clueless?
Actually your choices should be the 2.1 advanced or the 3 or 4 way advanced. The 2 way advanced is meant for doing speaker xovers, not subs...
The plugins are only $10, so it's cheap enough to play with both...

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post #288 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Actually your choices should be the 2.1 advanced or the 3 or 4 way advanced. The 2 way advanced is meant for doing speaker xovers, not subs...
The plugins are only $10, so it's cheap enough to play with both...

yea I meant the 2.1 advanced.
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post #289 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 04:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Actually, if you look in your circuit breaker box, you will find the Neutral and ground are the same. The difference being the ground should never have current flowing through it, where as the neutral will have current flowing through it. The reason for polarized AC outlets is one of safety.

Which makes them "polarized." And the why of it is, because if you reverse the wires, you'll electrify the neutral return for all the other connections and things will go wrong quickly.

I'm not trying to create an argument. The point was, neutral is being used in the same fashion as ground (which I posted) and the cord plug blades are different sizes so as to force maintaining the polarization of the electrical system. The image was to show which plug blade opening was neutral. Please don't file the blade down as that defeats the purpose of the enlarged blade..

Ground in the box is an 8' copper coated bar in the ground, which is different from the neutral bus in the electric service box.

Again, I'm wasn't trying to stir up trouble but to make the point regarding polarized A/C plugs and a snippet of how or why it's put together. If someone wants to research it some more, I posted enough information so they can pick out some buzz words and use Google to further their knowledge on the matter.

As to the plug in, I'll order the 2 way Advanced 21

Data sheet.

I'll also do some more reading and see what information I can glean from the reading as I'm not a fan of enigmas.

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post #290 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Which makes them "polarized." And the why of it is, because if you reverse the wires, you'll electrify the neutral return for all the other connections and things will go wrong quickly.

I'm not trying to create an argument. The point was, neutral is being used in the same fashion as ground (which I posted) and the cord plug blades are different sizes so as to force maintaining the polarization of the electrical system. The image was to show which plug blade opening was neutral. Please don't file the blade down as that defeats the purpose of the enlarged blade..

Ground in the box is an 8' copper coated bar in the ground, which is different from the neutral bus in the electric service box.

Again, I'm wasn't trying to stir up trouble but to make the point regarding polarized A/C plugs and a snippet of how or why it's put together. If someone wants to research it some more, I posted enough information so they can pick out some buzz words and use Google to further their knowledge on the matter.

As to the plug in, I'll order the 2 way Advanced 21

Data sheet.

I'll also do some more reading and see what information I can glean from the reading as I'm not a fan of enigmas.

-

I'm old enough to remember the days before polarized outlets, everything still worked...But it was much easier to get shocked...

The ground bus and neutral bus are one and the same, this is the reason for polarized outlets. Switching of the hot side makes appliances safer, with a polarized setup you always know which side is hot. Look at all the houses built in the 50 ~ 60's, no polarized plugs back then and modern equipment still works in those old houses...

Other than safety, there is no reason at all for polarized two prong outlets....Do the research....

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post #291 of 338 Old 05-26-2013, 06:18 PM
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Safety seems like a pretty good reason. smile.gif
I can pretty much build a house from the ground up but I have always hated messing with electricity. If its not off I wont fool with it.

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post #292 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 06:11 AM
 
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As a retired general contractor of thirty years, I understand the reason for contractors being licensed, bonded and insured and why they will lose their license if found not following the NEC and why people who don't follow the restrictive requirements of building codes, should not be allowed in the business of providing building maintenance repairs or new construction.

There's a reason we teach our children best safe practices and why we expect them to listen to the wisdom that safety teaches and why we expect those around us to daily, exhibit and espouse safe practices.

Finding unlicensed contractors who profess to know what they're doing is easy. Finding licensed contractors who follow the rules is a challenge. Finding contractors who are honest and will speak the truth is like pulling teeth. Getting the state of California to enforce it's own building codes is even harder.

And the pressing question; can I get the bank to approve this overseas order? FWIW, safety tells me not to use a debit card on this type of purchase. Others will throw caution to the wind and end up an "Identity Theft" victim.

(It's Memorial Day." The card approval will have to wait until Tuesday)

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Some will understand the reference to the above piece to love of professional craft and others will walk away shaking their head with nothing more than a question mark as their friend.

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post #293 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 06:42 AM
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The very first patent for a polarized plug was initiated in 1915 by George Knapp on behalf of the Harvey Hubbell company.
The polarized plug did not become a standard on electrical appliances until 1962.
Non polarized plugs are called NEMA-1 Type A.
NEMA 1 Type A sockets have been prohibited in new construction in the United States and Canada since 1962.

Houses built before this time had NEMA 1 Type A sockets, it has nothing to do with contractors not following building codes, as building codes of the time allowed these sockets.

When I was in Jr. High School we lived in a 15 ~ 20 year old house, every outlet was 2 prong non-polarized. Every time a new electronic appliance was brought into the house the outlet for it had to be changed.

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A long time ago, I linked a Wiki article to my comments and if someone wants to research American based, NEC requirements, they're welcome to.

I live in a house with a 200 Amp service, GFI's, 20A circuits, use 20A, hospital grade plugs when replacing or upgrading outlets and have converted the house, when I can, to LED light bulbs and pay the higher tier rate of $0.31.KwH. It's called progress as electrically, for the most part, none of what is being done today is what was happening in standard, residential homes built in 50's. Life has moved on to that of what was happening sixty or more years ago as there are still houses out there using "Knob-n-Tube" and real fuses to power 5A living room circuits because when the house was built, all they had was a hand crank Victrola and a few tungsten style light bulbs..

If the NEC calls for something, that's what it gets. NEC requirement are fluid. There is no argument. If there's an argument to be had, take it to Washington or Sacramento as the NEC is the standard which contracting law follows. We don't hire hacks because we hire contractors that follow the NEC so the house will be up to current code and the law says, if you touch a circuit, the system needs to be brought up to code and for good reason, safety.

The comment had to do with electric plugs being "polarized" (which they are) and unarguably, you're trying to make an argument where there isn't one. Enjoy your argument as my comment was simple, outlets and cord plugs "are" polarized (this is irrefutable) and are done so because that's what "TODAY'S" electric standards demand.

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post #295 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 07:30 AM
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This thread has gone completely off subject...

My comments were based on this statement...
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

ok i was just curious because most 2 prong power sources do not require polarity matching.

It is possible, to this day, people still have non-polarized plugs and outlets in their homes. As time goes on, it becomes less and less likely, but many people do live in old homes that have not been updated.

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post #296 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 07:45 AM
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i dont understand why minidsp would not include a one way plug in style power supply? now I have to get a volt meter out and verify polarity.... seems dumb as hell imo.
You don't have to do that if the AC supply side isn't chassis grounded.
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The ground bus and neutral bus are one and the same, this is the reason for polarized outlets. Switching of the hot side makes appliances safer, with a polarized setup you always know which side is hot.
The reason for polarized outlets was to be sure the ground wire was connected to the chassis if the chassis was grounded. The fly in that ointment was that some electricians, let alone DIYers, unaware of the difference between black and white, would wire the ground lug of the outlet to the hot, either at the outlet or the box, making the chassis hot. The third wire was added to provide a separate chassis ground path, hopefully so that one couldn't mis-wire the outlet.
Quote:
You can't get a shock off of neutral -
Yes, you can, when your body provides a lower resistance pathway to ground than the wire going back to the service entrance. One example is when your hand is touching a faucet, another is when you're outdoors on damp ground. Preventing this is one purpose of GFCI.

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post #297 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You don't have to do that if the AC supply side isn't chassis grounded.

My suggestion was to verify the DC side with a meter before hooking up the MiniDSP, I do believe this should be done...

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post #298 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You don't have to do that if the AC supply side isn't chassis grounded.
The reason for polarized outlets was to be sure the ground wire was connected to the chassis if the chassis was grounded. The fly in that ointment was that some electricians, let alone DIYers, unaware of the difference between black and white, would wire the ground lug of the outlet to the hot, either at the outlet or the box, making the chassis hot. The third wire was added to provide a separate chassis ground path, hopefully so that one couldn't mis-wire the outlet.
Yes, you can, when your body provides a lower resistance pathway to ground than the wire going back to the service entrance. One example is when your hand is touching a faucet, another is when you're outdoors on damp ground. Preventing this is one purpose of GFCI.

ok so if i have a 3 wire non chasis grounded receptacle I can simply plug it in and go? fwiw my house was built in 1977.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

ok so if i have a 3 wire non chasis grounded receptacle I can simply plug it in and go? fwiw my house was built in 1977.

In my opinion, unless you specifically asked for a THX specified sound system and this was purposefully disclosed in the original buying documents at closing......you're on your own.

....eek.gif...rolleyes.gif...biggrin.gif

(just teasing as totally, you're good)

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post #300 of 338 Old 05-27-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
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ok so if i have a 3 wire non chasis grounded receptacle I can simply plug it in and go? fwiw my house was built in 1977.
You should be able to. Modern gear with 3 wire AC cords ground the chassis to the third pin, so how the hot and not connections are wired to the wall socket doesn't matter. It would take a major idiot to wire the hot to the third pin, though anything that can be fouled up will be on occasion.

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