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post #181 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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here is todays efforts... with my subs placement I get a boost in gain at 50hz or 30hz. which one should I work with? If set the subs up to how they sound the best acordin to my ears I get a big null at 30hz(did not post graph with null)...idk.

2 channel stereo



7 channel stereo



oh yea these are 1/12 smoothing btw
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post #182 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The center channel. Took it out back. Threw it in the Jacuzzi. Cleaned it right up.

I used Audyssey's EQ function to EQ out the little bugger.

After today's effort, my head is quite spun as I used the main menu levels control, the EQ function and the gain control on one sub to steer the graph like a drawbridge. Raising and lowering sections of the graph with each control, a few dB at a time. It was all, make a minor change in the living room, go into the office, hit measure, back to the living room, minor change, back into the office, hit measure, that sort of back-n-forth, change-n-measure type of day.

Now the rub. The overall graph is +5dB bass heavy over flat but that's how we hear bass. My natural instinct is to destroy everything, correct for the bass and start over as my brain warns me, don't be stupid.

Here's the final day's graphed effort below as I was able to EQ the whole thing to +/-6dB for an untreated room with very active (((echo))) room acoustics. Of course, out of courtesy, I ask the purists to be kind and ignore the small niggle around 350Hz.



-

well sounds like you figured out the nasty null, so it sounds like a success... pretty crazy that a center channel would cause that.
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post #183 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 02:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

here is todays efforts... with my subs placement I get a boost in gain at 50hz or 30hz. which one should I work with?

Not sure how you start, you may already be doing this. With all settings in the AVR set to +/-0, one sub turned on at at time, at one foot, use the sub's gain setting to match the output of each sub. Each sub should be creating the same measured level of output. The idea, at the main listening position (microphone position), both subs turned on, with sound level meter in hand, one should have a combined reading of 73db - 75dB.

Once YPAO has completed it's appointed task, one should then play with REW and their sub's phase and LPF settings to get the best measured graph possible. This is sort of what Anti-Mode is doing. Now run YPAO so YPAO can read and recommend to your AVR, it's idea of what it considers to be the best guess settings for your measuring pleasure.

At this point, nothing that YPAO or Audyssey has to say is set in stone. The setting chosen, in my opinion, are recommendations. Once the calibration process is completed, play-n-measure and then play some more with each of the sub's gain setting. Create a baseline room measurement and save it. T then raise or lower one of the sub's gain setting by three dB and then take another room measurement. Doing this will familiarize yourself with how each individual sub, interacts with your room's acoustics. Use the AVR's gain control and raise or lower the subwoofers gain or level control by 3dB and see how this affects your measurements.

I have played with and measured the results for each of the sub and AVR's controls so as to see how each change affects room measurements. This project, depending on how fast you can grasp how the changes these controls make to a room's measurements, might take a few hours or a few weeks, It took me a bunch longer as I've been experimenting and learning as I go. I haven't read anything that recommends what I"m doing.

One of the interesting things I've learned, each speaker adds it's own spin to the measurements and does so in different ways. I found in our case, the center channel is the main player when correcting for anything >80Hz and the added third sub is the main player in the <80Hz range. I found that I can steer the graph like a drawbridge, raising whole sections or lowering whole sections by changing the level control one, two or three dB's. It's surprising how much change a dB or two causes a graph. I use the EQ to fine tune the center channel graph as again, in our case, the center channel is the main player for anything >80Hz.

I hesitate to destroy a graph and start over as it might take three to five days to create a new graph. For me, there's a boatload of trial and error as each change introduces it's own set of symbiotic (harmonics) changes. These are unrelated to the intended direct purpose of the change.. It doesn't matter the source of the change as it can be change brought about by Anti-Mode, Audyssey, subwoofer or the AVR controls. Sadly, neither Anti-Mode nor Audyssey does the best possible job. In the end, to get the best out of our system, all possibilities are on the table to be used as their use may improve a set of measurements.

Don't let any of the above scare you off of acquiring XT32 as there are many, many reports as to what a stellar job XT32 does.

-
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post #184 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Not sure how you start, you may already be doing this. With all settings in the AVR set to +/-0, one sub turned on at at time, at one foot, use the sub's gain setting to match the output of each sub. Each sub should be creating the same measured level of output. The idea, at the main listening position (microphone position), both subs turned on, with sound level meter in hand, one should have a combined reading of 73db - 75dB.

Once YPAO has completed it's appointed task, one should then play with REW and their sub's phase and LPF settings to get the best measured graph possible. This is sort of what Anti-Mode is doing. Now run YPAO so YPAO can read and recommend to your AVR, it's idea of what it considers to be the best guess settings for your measuring pleasure.

At this point, nothing that YPAO or Audyssey has to say is set in stone. The setting chosen, in my opinion, are recommendations. Once the calibration process is completed, play-n-measure and then play some more with each of the sub's gain setting. Create a baseline room measurement and save it. T then raise or lower one of the sub's gain setting by three dB and then take another room measurement. Doing this will familiarize yourself with how each individual sub, interacts with your room's acoustics. Use the AVR's gain control and raise or lower the subwoofers gain or level control by 3dB and see how this affects your measurements.

I have played with and measured the results for each of the sub and AVR's controls so as to see how each change affects room measurements. This project, depending on how fast you can grasp how the changes these controls make to a room's measurements, might take a few hours or a few weeks, It took me a bunch longer as I've been experimenting and learning as I go. I haven't read anything that recommends what I"m doing.

One of the interesting things I've learned, each speaker adds it's own spin to the measurements and does so in different ways. I found in our case, the center channel is the main player when correcting for anything >80Hz and the added third sub is the main player in the <80Hz range. I found that I can steer the graph like a drawbridge, raising whole sections or lowering whole sections by changing the level control one, two or three dB's. It's surprising how much change a dB or two causes a graph. I use the EQ to fine tune the center channel graph as again, in our case, the center channel is the main player for anything >80Hz.

I hesitate to destroy a graph and start over as it might take three to five days to create a new graph. For me, there's a boatload of trial and error as each change introduces it's own set of symbiotic (harmonics) changes. These are unrelated to the intended direct purpose of the change.. It doesn't matter the source of the change as it can be change brought about by Anti-Mode, Audyssey, subwoofer or the AVR controls. Sadly, neither Anti-Mode nor Audyssey does the best possible job. In the end, to get the best out of our system, all possibilities are on the table to be used as their use may improve a set of measurements.

Don't let any of the above scare you off of acquiring XT32 as there are many, many reports as to what a stellar job XT32 does.

-


thats basically what im doing...im running ypao thru with no eq. so far i can get a huge gain or dip in the 50hz range. next move will be disconnecting the fronts and see if they are causing the gain at 50hz, but i doubt it. if i move the sub thats in the nearfield area to the side wall, i get the previou graph from the other day...fairly flat except the dip. moving it into the corner now has added a 10db gain at 50hz. changing the phase just shifts it left or cancels out 30hz all together. ill keep playing, just getting started.
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post #185 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 04:21 PM
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Two SW 115 should do the job!!!

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus 200 Five, Dayton 18 Ultimxa Dual Sub Cab(2), Dayton 18 Ultimax Large Vented Sub Cab (2), on Berhinger I Nuke DPS amps, Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
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post #186 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 04:22 PM
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Two SW 115 should do the job!!!

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus 200 Five, Dayton 18 Ultimxa Dual Sub Cab(2), Dayton 18 Ultimax Large Vented Sub Cab (2), on Berhinger I Nuke DPS amps, Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
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post #187 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Two SW 115 should do the job!!!

I already purchased 2 PSA XV15's lol
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post #188 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

thats basically what im doing...im running ypao thru with no eq. so far i can get a huge gain or dip in the 50hz range. next move will be disconnecting the fronts and see if they are causing the gain at 50hz, but i doubt it. if i move the sub thats in the nearfield area to the side wall, i get the previou graph from the other day...fairly flat except the dip. moving it into the corner now has added a 10db gain at 50hz. changing the phase just shifts it left or cancels out 30hz all together. ill keep playing, just getting started.

Go with what ever you were doing in post number 125. That should be your starting point. You should also run a full sweep, from 10Hz to 20kHz and see what happens to your measurements.

The reason I mention this, by hanging out in this forum, we get subwoofer centric in our thinking yet we continue listening to our movies, full spectrum. The full spectrum needs to be tuned, not just the first 120Hz of our measurement graph.

Instead of disconnecting your mains, simply raise or lower the levels for your mains and do the same for your center channel. Raising or lowering the levels on our system by just one dB is measurable and easily shows itself by comparing the new reading to the old reading made in "Overlays."

If your above graph was our graph, based on what I've learned over the last few recording efforts, I can't say this will work for you, I would lower the gain on one of the subs a few dB and raise the gain on the center channel a few dB and take new measurements.

The good news, once YPAO has been run, as long as using REW as your sonic guide, you can do anything you want and it's all good, or bad, depending on which way the graph goes but it won't make anymore trouble for you than what the graphed measurements tells you is happening.

-
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post #189 of 338 Old 04-13-2013, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Go with what ever you were doing in post number 125. That should be your starting point. You should also run a full sweep, from 10Hz to 20kHz and see what happens to your measurements.

The reason I mention this, by hanging out in this forum, we get subwoofer centric in our thinking yet we continue listening to our movies, full spectrum. The full spectrum needs to be tuned, not just the first 120Hz of our measurement graph.

Instead of disconnecting your mains, simply raise or lower the levels for your mains and do the same for your center channel. Raising or lowering the levels on our system by just one dB is measurable and easily shows itself by comparing the new reading to the old reading made in "Overlays."

If your above graph was our graph, based on what I've learned over the last few recording efforts, I can't say this will work for you, I would lower the gain on one of the subs a few dB and raise the gain on the center channel a few dB and take new measurements.

The good news, once YPAO has been run, as long as using REW as your sonic guide, you can do anything you want and it's all good, or bad, depending on which way the graph goes but it won't make anymore trouble for you than what the graphed measurements tells you is happening.

-

ok sounds good...I will play more with it on monday then post results!
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post #190 of 338 Old 04-14-2013, 05:48 AM
 
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Tick-tock.....is it Monday yet? biggrin.gif

Just a philosophical add, after a particularly brutal measuring session, I to like to take a day or three off of measuring to see what my brain comes up with.

My attitude is to approach this from the level of repeatability. Repeatability being, I should be able to break the system down, and within a degree of certainty, put things back together in a different venue and enjoy similar results. Not being able to move house at the drop of a hat, I'll tear the graph down to zero, and based on what I've learned from the last session, rebuild the graph.

In my mind, doing this is a case of mental strength and validity in that once one gets a really good graph going, due to the amount of effort it can take to create a quality graph, personally, I'm hesitant to destroy the effort and start over; hence the mental strength. The more times I tear the graph down and start over, the easier it becomes to build a quality graph which shows a better understanding of the processes that lead up to a quality graph; validity. Eventually, the scientific principal or repeatability kicks in and one can finally say they're home.

But and a big but it is....

By doing what I suggest, using levels as a graph's rudder, one messes with the ability for one to reach the coveted "reference" level which may then include the need for acquiring a separate Amp to make things right again. And......the question unintentionally morphs into: how wide is the listening field as what's measured at my location is roughly 6dB less than what my wife receives at her location which is only, four feet away.

Last night I flipped back-n-forth between our seating with a sound meter during peak sonic moments in "Battle: Los Angeles." Now we're having to negotiate my sitting in "HER" chair during movies with loud sound tracks as her hearing is much more sensitive then mine. And it's highly unfair that for all the work I've put into this system, her sensitive ears are having to deal with 96dB when all I'm my ears are being allowed to deal with is 90dB.

.....

(great sound track)

-
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post #191 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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You think he should return a great receiver so that he can get one with better room correction software? Even with all the tools he already has for calibration?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting....and exactly what calibration tools does he currently have (aside from the woefully unimpressive YPAO)??

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post #192 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

here is todays efforts... with my subs placement I get a boost in gain at 50hz or 30hz. which one should I work with? If set the subs up to how they sound the best acordin to my ears I get a big null at 30hz(did not post graph with null)...idk.

2 channel stereo



7 channel stereo



oh yea these are 1/12 smoothing btw

NO SMOOTHING ON SUB GRAPHS!! biggrin.gif

I'd work with the one that gives you the bump at 50hz. It's smoother overall.

You still haven't posted a graph showing us what YPAO is doing (if anything) for your subs.

Have you tried the distance tweak?

Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions (Requires Acoustic Measurement Tools).doc 48k .doc file

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post #193 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting....and exactly what calibration tools does he currently have (aside from the woefully unimpressive YPAO)??

I have dayton usb mic, radio shack spl meter, and rew. Im pretty sure you know this but I think what your getting at is the fact its not a calibration tool? just measurement gear unless i get a mini dsp correct?
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post #194 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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NO SMOOTHING ON SUB GRAPHS!! biggrin.gif

I'd work with the one that gives you the bump at 50hz. It's smoother overall.

You still haven't posted a graph showing us what YPAO is doing (if anything) for your subs.

Have you tried the distance tweak?

Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions (Requires Acoustic Measurement Tools).doc 48k .doc file

i will post a graph soon using the "flat" eq.


also when using rew, if i try taking a measurement below the spl posted in my graphs i get a disclaimer saying -30db headroom turn up your avr?
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post #195 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 09:56 AM
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Yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting....and exactly what calibration tools does he currently have (aside from the woefully unimpressive YPAO)??
Im not sure what calibration tools he has but I disagree with your suggestion. What type of room correction software an avr has is not my primary concern when buying one. And I would rather have a Yamaha than a Denon, Onkyo or Marantz.

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post #196 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Im not sure what calibration tools he has but I disagree with your suggestion. What type of room correction software an avr has is not my primary concern when buying one. And I would rather have a Yamaha than a Denon, Onkyo or Marantz.

Bond so you do not think audyssey is worth ditching the yamaha for? I appreciate your opinion...I really like my yamaha aside from the pandora access error. also if it comes down to needing better room correction software, then wouldnt a mini dsp be a good option? However with my initial graph, my room does not seem to be that terrible..my latest graphs were simply trying different things with negative results, but hey thats trial and error.
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post #197 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 11:41 AM
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I have dayton usb mic, radio shack spl meter, and rew. Im pretty sure you know this but I think what your getting at is the fact its not a calibration tool? just measurement gear unless i get a mini dsp correct?

Correct. If you get a MiniDSP and are using your AVRs pre-outs with external amplification, you can (in theory, and with a lot of work on your part) accomplish even better EQ than Audyssey provides. You would need the "8 In x 8 Out" MiniDSP version (for 7.1) which is $400.

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Im not sure what calibration tools he has but I disagree with your suggestion. What type of room correction software an avr has is not my primary concern when buying one. And I would rather have a Yamaha than a Denon, Onkyo or Marantz.

This is where opinions differ - I definitely consider room correction the most important feature of any modern AVR. Can't think of any single feature that comes close...IMO. cool.gif

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Bond so you do not think audyssey is worth ditching the yamaha for? I appreciate your opinion...I really like my yamaha aside from the pandora access error. also if it comes down to needing better room correction software, then wouldnt a mini dsp be a good option? However with my initial graph, my room does not seem to be that terrible..my latest graphs were simply trying different things with negative results, but hey thats trial and error.

Get your response the best you can with sub placement, distance and phase tweaking - then, and only then, consider other, more advanced methods of EQ. If you're happy with the way it sounds is all that really matters. biggrin.gif

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post #198 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Bond so you do not think audyssey is worth ditching the yamaha for? I appreciate your opinion...I really like my yamaha aside from the pandora access error. also if it comes down to needing better room correction software, then wouldnt a mini dsp be a good option? However with my initial graph, my room does not seem to be that terrible..my latest graphs were simply trying different things with negative results, but hey thats trial and error.
If it were me I would keep the Yamaha. But I am in the minority that thinks that you can have a good sounding system through trial and error and using your ears as long as you have a good understanding of how the various settings work and affect sound quality. Maybe Im just not as picky as some or maybe I just dont feel the need for a computer to tell me that everything is proper. The 773 is a great receiver and many people have one and are very happy with their systems. I have had nothing but compliments on how my system sounds just by running YPAO and tweaking the settings and built in graphic eq along with experimenting with sub placement. But whether or not you need better room correction software to be satisfied with your system can only be answered by you.

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post #199 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is todays efforts with the eq set on flat and alot of time getting the sub distance set. speakers set to small and crossover @ 80hz.




here is a comparison between my very first measurement from post 125 in full with no smoothing

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post #200 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 03:00 PM
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Since we're just focusing on the bass here, re-post the graphs from 20-200hz only, will make it easier to see what's going on.

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post #201 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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lol beeman tells me to post a full graph, then you say post 200mhz max...geez I cant win tongue.gif
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post #202 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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here is the graph from 10-200




here is my first measurement from post 125 with no smoothing

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post #203 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

lol beeman tells me to post a full graph, then you say post 200mhz max...geez I cant win tongue.gif

Beeman meant to always measure a full frequency sweep - that way the info is there is you want to see it. But when focusing on the bass, you only need to show 20-200hz. biggrin.gif

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post #204 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

here is the graph from 10-200




here is my first measurement from post 125 with no smoothing


So....that is the best you can do with placement? What about after YPAO (I don't expect any miracles wink.gif )?

Your bass response is kinda all over the place. Room treatments would probably help a bit.

But there's good news! Since you have mostly large peaks and few dips (under 120hz), outboard EQ would probably help you flatten the FR from 20-120hz without much trouble - just squash the peaks with EQ and then bring up the combined sub level overall for a flat response. Have you considered a Behringer Feedback Destroyer? Also, you could accomplish the same thing with a 2x2 MiniDSP, but either way you would be unable to EQ anything beside your subs.

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post #205 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 03:20 PM
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Hey! WTF? There was only one graph when I replied. biggrin.gif

The second graph (your first measurement) looks much better than the first and would probably be even easier to flatten with outboard EQ.

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post #206 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Hey! WTF? There was only one graph when I replied. biggrin.gif

The second graph (your first measurement) looks much better than the first and would probably be even easier to flatten with outboard EQ.


for some reason I can not get my setup back like my first graph...to many changes must of forgot lol. The subs are currently across the room from eachother opposite corners. also that first measurement only sounded good in my listening posistion, the latest graph sounds better overall across the room. I can get a smoother graph but then a huge null develops at 70hz.
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post #207 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

So....that is the best you can do with placement? What about after YPAO (I don't expect any miracles wink.gif )?

Your bass response is kinda all over the place. Room treatments would probably help a bit.

But there's good news! Since you have mostly large peaks and few dips (under 120hz), outboard EQ would probably help you flatten the FR from 20-120hz without much trouble - just squash the peaks with EQ and then bring up the combined sub level overall for a flat response. Have you considered a Behringer Feedback Destroyer? Also, you could accomplish the same thing with a 2x2 MiniDSP, but either way you would be unable to EQ anything beside your subs.
Not trying to be a smartass here, honestly. The Yamaha has an excellent 7 band graphic eq built in so that you can manually eq each speaker individually. Something many receivers dont have. It made a huge difference for me. But, of course, will do nothing for the subs. It could be used to compensate for the 2 dips between 100 and 200 by boosting these frequencies in his towers.

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post #208 of 338 Old 04-15-2013, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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here is a waterfall graph of my latest measurement
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post #209 of 338 Old 04-16-2013, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

FWIW, the system is 5.1 as opposed to 7.1 and I send a 15Hz - 150Hz frequency sweep for measurement purposes, all channels engaged.

Because of experimentally, doing sweeps on separate speakers, I found that I can steer the graph using the AVR's internal, main menu gain settings or levels if you will. But under "normal" frequency sweep conditions, I send a signal to all speakers as I find all speakers influence the final measuring graph. Doing what I suggest with the gain setting, I can evenly raise and lower the measured graph in sections like a drawbridge. I've done this with the subs and the center channel but not the surrounds. I have a nasty 65Hz hump I've been unsuccessfully trying to contend with. The next time I do measurements, if any, I'll see what impact turning down the gain has on the surrounds and this stubborn hump.

In our room, the subs have a strong even handed influence over the <55Hz range, and the center channel has a strong even handed influence over the >100Hz range. Surprisingly, overall, the mains have only a small, niggly impact over the full described range but nothing I'd characterize as a main player. As I posted, I've not engaged the surrounds to see what part of the frequency range they hold influence over as between 55Hz and 90Hz, we have a wild thing going on and maybe I'll find the problem hump lies in the sound waves the surrounds produce.

-

All channels engaged? My understanding (from personal experience with a 2.1 setup) is that playing more than one channel at a time would cause all sorts of doubling and cancellation at different frequencies that aren't really representative of each channel's performance; besides, wouldn't you want to EQ each of the 5 channels separately?
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post #210 of 338 Old 04-16-2013, 04:29 AM
 
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I have no idea how the rest of the world does this. I want thing's EQ'd to represent how things are when a movie sound track is banging away in our living room and testing the sound system in this fashion is representative of what I can expect when a movie sound track is being reproduced.

As to separating speakers, I will separate or disconnect speakers only for the purpose of finding out which speaker is driving a particular aspect of the graph and work with the combined sonic information from there. In our case, at the main listening position (MLP), the right sub and the center channel are the main driving forces in our system. The next driver that has the most influence over the room's acoustics is the left subwoofer.

In our system, regarding frequencies between 15Hz to 150Hz, at the MLP, three parametrics that have the least influence over the living room's acoustics are those of the surrounds, the mains and subwoofer's distance. By isolating each driver, I've found what each driver adds/subtracts from the sound wave mix and then play all drivers simultaneously to gain better knowledge of what I can expect from our sound reproduction system. Due to this experimentation, I know proof positive which parametric and driver hold sway over the room and use parametric settings to do what I term, "steer" the graph. By doing what I suggest in my above, I find I get consistent results in that at any time and point, I can disconnect everything, start over and when putting things back together again, easily obtain similar graphed results.

Now I know this isn't how "experts" who thoughtfully post how things are to be done but when expert advice fails to work, one is forced into accepting failure or striking out on their own, find what works for them and so far, despite being told to the contrary, what I shared above is what works for me.

(and yes, all of the above is a work in progress as I try to find out about why my above works when in theory, it should fail)

If it helps, everything I post should be looked upon with a jaundiced eye. Below is yesterday's best graphed effort. One line represents what Audyssey gives us (the experts version) and the other is what I get when I stopped listening to the "experts." The gold line is what the "experts" tell me is the right way to do things, the red line is what I get when I don't listen to what the experts have to tell me but instead listen to what REW is showing me. Same {{{echo}}} filled room, same speaker positions, no room treatments added, only the judicious use of parametric settings; LPF, phase control, AVR/subwoofer gain control, asymmetrical use of controls after running DSPeaker, Anti-Mode, 8033S II.



In my defense, things didn't start getting better until I stopped listening to what the experts had to thoughtfully share. If accurate, then what was being shared should have caused an improvement and instead, their advice only created more of the same; fail. In my opinion, when fail repeatedly happens, it's time to look outside the box for a solution as in our case, what was being shared inside the box, wasn't working.

In my defense, one gets a bit punchy when posting here so if my comments come across as defensive, it's because they are so my apologies for being so defensive in my above comments.. One can't post poop here without some butthead jumping all over what you have to share and yes, it's making me very defensive in my comments as these forum bullies have ruined this forum. as this is suppose to be nothing more then folks sharing what they have learned.

Personally, it's a shame that one should come to AVS in good faith and after being posting any comment feel every post must be defended against personal attack. My recommendation, take all of my above in the light of my sharing personally obtained experience as I expect the usual forum bullies to come and cause trouble with what I have shared in my above in response to your comment.

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