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post #1 of 338 Old 03-31-2013, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok instead of mucking up other threads in attempt to get advice, I have decided to start a dedicated thread to help aid my sub selection. I am looking for a sub(s) that are great for music and digs deep into the lower frequency range for HT. My budget is 2k TOPS, but I would like to stay around 1k.

Setup as follows:

20x15 room on concrete slab, carpet floors, with 8ft ceiling.(6ft wide entrance into the living room from the side)

Yamaha rxv-773 AVR
Polk Audio RTI-A7 Fronts(bi-amped)
Polk Audio CSI-A4 Center
Polk Audio RTI-3 Surround
Polk Audio PSW-505 Sub's(2)


Here is what I have been looking at as far as choices:

Rythmik- F25 dual 15" driver tower for 1579.00 shipped(Problem is Rythmik is no longer shipping this sub rolleyes.gif) 800watt rms

PSA- XS30 dual 15" driver sub for 1149.00 shipped. 750watt rms

(2) Klipsch- SW-115 sub's for 1200.00 shipped. 400watt rms each

(2) SVS- SB12-NSD sub's for 1149.00 shipped. 400watt rms each

(2) Rythmik- LV12R sub's for 1070.00 shipped. 300watt rms each



If I buy 2 subs I prefer to stay with 12's for smaller footprint. The only reason I listed the klipsch 115 is because they are wireless and I could put one up front and the other behind my couch. As some of you might see from my previous posts I am being very hesitant and indecisive because money does not grow on trees for me. I really do not want to make a 1000.00 plus mistake! Which is the only reason I bought budget subs in the first place. Thanks for the help!!


Here is some pics to help better explain the room situation.

here is a pic from the right side of my living room to the den is 31ft.



here is a pic standing in front of my front entrance door of my house looking into my 20x15 living room.



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post #2 of 338 Old 03-31-2013, 08:59 PM
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Excellent post! Good luck. smile.gif

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post #3 of 338 Old 03-31-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!
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post #4 of 338 Old 03-31-2013, 09:37 PM
 
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This quest is a Quixotic quest as you're trying to mix performance, price and size, all into the same package. Something has to give to make things work. Price, size and performance goes hand-in-hand, if one is willing to go large.

When one reduces the size, smaller box, everything goes South along with it. And then there are the compromise models and the price and size goes back up. And then if one wants smooth sound and no room treatments, they're now looking at a third or fourth sub. Think Abbott and Costello's "Who's On First?"

In the end, idealism ever so slowly goes to the way side as rational choices have to be made; performance, price, size, how loud does one want their subwoofer system to go and the number of subwoofers to be put into the same room as the wife. eek.gif...eek.gif...eek.gif

The good news, at this performance level, they're all good choices. Here's my middle ground group:

PSA: XV15/2ea

SVS: PC12-Plus/2ea or the PB12-NSD/2ea.

Rythmik: F15/2ea or ask about the FV15 as it's not listed.

(for smoothness of sound quality, one really needs a third sub so the above recommendations come with the caveat of keeping one's eye on the addition of a third sub)

In my opinion, there is no clear choice as everything is a compromise in one way, shape, manner or form and this includes the need to get the wife onboard with what's being done.

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post #5 of 338 Old 03-31-2013, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

This quest is a Quixotic quest as you're trying to mix performance, price and size, all into the same package. Something has to give to make things work. Price, size and performance goes hand-in-hand, if one is willing to go large.

When one reduces the size, smaller box, everything goes South along with it. And then there are the compromise models and the price and size goes back up. And then if one wants smooth sound and no room treatments, they're now looking at a third or fourth sub. Think Abbott and Costello's "Who's On First?"

In the end, idealism ever so slowly goes to the way side as rational choices have to be made; performance, price, size, how loud does one want their subwoofer system to go and the number of subwoofers to be put into the same room as the wife. eek.gif...eek.gif...eek.gif

ok lets take size out of the equation...any recommendations?
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post #6 of 338 Old 03-31-2013, 09:58 PM
 
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ok lets take size out of the equation...any recommendations?

I amended my above to include what I consider to be a few middle ground choices.

(shutting down for the night)
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post #7 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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50 views and 1 response? c'mon folks lets hear it!

On a side note I spoke with SVS and they recomend the PB12's. Going to contact PSA and see what they say.
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post #8 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 05:37 AM
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Try Hsu Research also. They are a great bunch of guys and are very helpful. One thing to keep in mind with them though is that the costs on the website do not include shipping unless you look closely. And if you get it and dont like it you have to pay to ship it back. eek.gif It cost me $70 to return an stf2 plus $43 to get it. So it was about $110 to find out it was not enough sub for me.

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post #9 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Try Hsu Research also. They are a great bunch of guys and are very helpful. One thing to keep in mind with them though is that the costs on the website do not include shipping unless you look closely. And if you get it and dont like it you have to pay to ship it back. eek.gif It cost me $70 to return an stf2 plus $43 to get it. So it was about $110 to find out it was not enough sub for me.

ok i will contact them. i look at there stuff quite a bit in the past, just was not to sure about it. thx
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post #10 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 08:44 AM
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Personally, I would go with duals instead of the single PSA (XS30) or Rythmik in order to gain the advantage of room smoothing that only multiple subs in separate locations can give you.

I've got dual XS15s and would not have been able to get close to the frequency response I have with a single XS30 due to the limited placement options that having dual drivers in a single box gives you.

Contact Tom at PSA, he's a great guy to deal with and he will not steer you wrong.
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post #11 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Personally, I would go with duals instead of the single PSA (XS30) or Rythmik in order to gain the advantage of room smoothing that only multiple subs in separate locations can give you.

I've got dual XS15s and would not have been able to get close to the frequency response I have with a single XS30 due to the limited placement options that having dual drivers in a single box gives you.

Contact Tom at PSA, he's a great guy to deal with and he will not steer you wrong.

actually Tom recomended the xs30 for my application, or 2 xs15's. the problem is having the 6ft entrance from the left side of my living room. I have moved my 505's all around the room, spent hours trying to find the sweet spot. the front right corner is where they sound best. now that might be 505 thing that wont apply to a different type of sub. thanks for your input, I believe PSA is at the top of my list currently. Tom has been the most helpful and his prices are on point with my budget!
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post #12 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:08 AM
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That is a very big opening for the entrance. Whats on the other side? You may need to include that in the volume of the room.

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post #13 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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just a wall on the other side, windows behind my seating posistion. its just a big rectangle with a 6 ft entrance from the left side. thought i mentioned that in the op?
it definately is a issue i dont think much can be done with. the bass sounds almost as loud in my foyer and den as the living room, since the entrance to my living room goes into the foyer and den. so really im probably flooding a 5000^3(just guessing) area with bass.
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post #14 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

50 views and 1 response? c'mon folks lets hear it!

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Sorry, couldn't resist. Time for levity. tongue.gif

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jit definately is a issue i dont think much can be done with. the bass sounds almost as loud in my foyer and den as the living room, since the entrance to my living room goes into the foyer and den. so really im probably flooding a 5000^3(just guessing) area with bass.

I hate it when it does that. Ours leaks into everywhere. The living room (of course) the kitchen, the dining room, the entryway, the hallway, the office. By the time it's done, "Raiders of the Lost Ark" comes to mind.

It just never ends. tongue.gif

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post #15 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:18 AM
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No. It just says 6ft wide entrance to the living room from the side. So I assume the room in question IS the living room. Anyway, I wanted to make sure you saw this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411585/help-2-klipsch-sw-115-or-1-vtf-15h

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post #16 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

actually Tom recomended the xs30 for my application, or 2 xs15's. the problem is having the 6ft entrance from the left side of my living room. I have moved my 505's all around the room, spent hours trying to find the sweet spot. the front right corner is where they sound best. now that might be 505 thing that wont apply to a different type of sub. thanks for your input, I believe PSA is at the top of my list currently. Tom has been the most helpful and his prices are on point with my budget!

When you moved them around your room, did you always keep them co-located (together)? In order to benefit from multiple subs, it is almost always best to have them at opposite sides of the room.
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post #17 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

just a wall on the other side, windows behind my seating posistion. its just a big rectangle with a 6 ft entrance from the left side. thought i mentioned that in the op?
it definately is a issue i dont think much can be done with. the bass sounds almost as loud in my foyer and den as the living room, since the entrance to my living room goes into the foyer and den. so really im probably flooding a 5000^3(just guessing) area with bass.

Well then....dual XS30s ought to do it. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #18 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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When you moved them around your room, did you always keep them co-located (together)? In order to benefit from multiple subs, it is almost always best to have them at opposite sides of the room.

yes I had them separated and the always seem out of phase. I had to put one 180 out from the other then it screwed with the sound of my towers.
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post #19 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:31 AM
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^^^

Yes, you will most likely have to change the phase on one of the subs if they are on opposite sides of the room (one front, one back).

What do you mean "screwed with the sound of my towers"?
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post #20 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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edited...pics in op.
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post #21 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:35 AM
 
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Without measuring gear, you'll never know. But based on the images, you have room for a boatload of subwoofers. :P
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post #22 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^

Yes, you will most likely have to change the phase on one of the subs if they are on opposite sides of the room (one front, one back).

What do you mean "screwed with the sound of my towers"?


It made my room sound like there were a lot of spots with no bass response or sounded "out of phase". I still have that slightly but the subs sounded best in the configuration you see in the picture.
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post #23 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:38 AM
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To be honest, I think dual Klipsch Sw-115s might not be so bad. I would like to see some measurements for them, but they look like they could actually be pretty good, especially for a brick and mortar brand, and the price is very right. I would rather have dual PSA XV15s if given the choice, but I think I could easily live with dual SW-115s. Dual Hsu VTF3s should also be considered, that sub is pretty hardcore for a 12". I really wish Klipsch would send Ricci a Sw-115 though, I think that would compare favorably with ID brands. $1200 shipped for two high output 15"s is a killer deal.
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post #24 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Without measuring gear, you'll never know. But based on the images, you have room for a boatload of subwoofers. :P

Ditto.

I think it's time for you to dive into REW.
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post #25 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:41 AM
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Holy crap! Thats a lot more room than in the op. Are those youre 2 subs sitting together in the corner? If it is, theres no way thats the best place for them.

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post #26 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Without measuring gear, you'll never know. But based on the images, you have room for a boatload of subwoofers. :P

I agree, should of kept my passive custom 15" JBL dvc sub and installed a rythmik driver and hit it with more power. It was 4ft tall wrapped in black formica. I believe it was a bandpass or bose type enclosure, had 3 cubic ft. lower chamber sealed, and 1.5cubic ft. upper with three 4" ports. I would of needed to retune the ports most likely for the different driver.
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post #27 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:43 AM
 
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I think it's time for you to dive into REW.

"Ice Age"

Getting it right is a journey. And that's just the way it is. tongue.gif

(humor break over, back to reality)
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post #28 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Holy crap! Thats a lot more room than in the op. Are those youre 2 subs sitting together in the corner? If it is, theres no way thats the best place for them.

yes that's the 2 505's. I tried them everywhere and that's where they ended up, but I am by know means know it all when it comes to this stuff!
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post #29 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:49 AM
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First thing I would do while youre deciding what to get next is get those 2 separated. Put one in the opposite corner of the room or something. Theres hardly any sense in having 2 and then stacking them practically. Youre getting a small amount more output but having them together is doing nothing to help with coverage in such a large space.

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post #30 of 338 Old 04-01-2013, 09:54 AM
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I am beginning to agree with one of the other guys that the 2 115s might actually not be a bad idea. Youre going to need some serious output and you will get that with them. They should do well for music but you will probably have to spend much more to get that kind of output and get great accuracy also. Have you been telling the companies on the phone that these rooms are all open and connected? If not then you definitely should.

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