Placing Left and Right speakers on top of subwoofers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone see a problem with this setup?? In terms of vibrations etc.. I cranked it up with music pretty good and everything seemed pretty solid..

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post #2 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 10:17 AM
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The primary issue is room modes. Subs look good under mains, and symmetry of placement is pleasing to the eye, but good looks and symmetry seldom give the best result where low frequencies are concerned. Usually modes are best controlled when two subs are placed as far apart as possible. Do a search, there are plenty of sub placement threads.

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post #3 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

Does anyone see a problem with this setup?? In terms of vibrations etc.. I cranked it up with music pretty good and everything seemed pretty solid..

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I am using large bookshelf speakers (JBL S38s) and have to put them on top of my PB13 Ultra subs. Never had any issues and I have played countless BIG LFE films over the years. Probably not ideal putting mains on top of subs, but I have not had any issues as far as them falling down or anything.

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post #4 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 10:49 AM
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What you have done is create a floorstander with a powered woofer basically. I see no problem with it at all. In fact it is a very good idea and will help with imaging/balance of the lower end when listening to music.
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post #5 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds great then, thanks for the advice !


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post #6 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

What you have done is create a floorstander with a powered woofer basically. I see no problem with it at all. In fact it is a very good idea
Or not. One of the main reasons why floor standers have been supplanted by separate mains and subs is that separates allow the mains to be placed where they work best, and the subs to be placed where they work best. In the vast majority of cases they don't both work best when stacked.

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post #7 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^

Well this is in the main living/tv room. My wife has somehow allowed me to mount a 60" flat screen, have five massive speakers, including two on floating glass shelves for the surrounds, and two 12" subs, and amazingly she's about to give me the go ahead to swap out the 60" for a 70" beauty.. so the subs look good and sound good where they're at now, and they're not going anywhere else.. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't creating a huge problem by setting it up that way.. Sometimes, I guess you just can't get it all


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post #8 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 02:26 PM
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It's fine.

But I would pull all the speakers, particularly that center, as far forward as possible in their respective locations. In other words, to the front edge of whatever they are sitting upon.

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post #9 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

It's fine.

But I would pull all the speakers, particularly that center, as far forward as possible in their respective locations. In other words, to the front edge of whatever they are sitting upon.

Good point, I'll try that, which means I'll have to run Audyssey again.. lol




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post #10 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

What you have done is create a floorstander with a powered woofer basically. I see no problem with it at all. In fact it is a very good idea and will help with imaging/balance of the lower end when listening to music.
One of the primary reasons to use subwoofers and Bass Management is because the positions of the speakers is almost never the optimal placements for bass response. Subs should be placed where they provide the best transfer function of bass to the listening position(s). Placing the subs underneath mains and making a "floorstander with a powered woofer" violates that principle. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but let's not portray a compromised setup as a "very good idea."

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post #11 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

What you have done is create a floorstander with a powered woofer basically. I see no problem with it at all. In fact it is a very good idea and will help with imaging/balance of the lower end when listening to music.
One of the primary reasons to use subwoofers and Bass Management is because the positions of the speakers is almost never the optimal placements for bass response. Subs should be placed where they provide the best transfer function of bass to the listening position(s). Placing the subs underneath mains and making a "floorstander with a powered woofer" violates that principle. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but let's not portray a compromised setup as a "very good idea."

Craig



It sounds damn good the way it's setup now though, including the killer bass. I guess it could always be better, nothing's perfect, but like I said some compromise in regard to equipment placement must be made from my part since this setup is on the ground floor, in the main living/tv room.



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post #12 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 02:48 PM
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It sounds damn good the way it's setup now though, including the killer bass.
Good for you. When I tried putting my subs underneath my speakers, it looked really cool. It measured poorly and it sounded like Schlitz. I moved them to some distributed placements and the measurements improved radically. The sound improved in a similar fashion.

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post #13 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Good for you. When I tried putting my subs underneath my speakers, it looked really cool. It measured poorly and it sounded like Schlitz. I moved them to some distributed placements and the measurements improved radically. The sound improved in a similar fashion.

Craig

Every room is different. Between my rear sub and my front subs which are right below my mains, I could not ask for better response. Of course it took multiples to get there, but you can certainly get good response with the subs below the mains. Until you run some FR sweeps, you wont know for sure and exactly how your particular room, sub position and seating position all correspond.

In my room, there was no single spot that covered everything well which is why I had to go to multiples.

Having said all that, OP have you experimented with one sub in the rear and one up front? After all my sub shifting, swapping and experimenting, subs in front and rear gave me the best results in my 12x17 sealed room.

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post #14 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 03:57 PM
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EDIT: Double post............damn phone.......or maybe I should say damn user. biggrin.gif

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post #15 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Every room is different. Between my rear sub and my front subs which are right below my mains, I could not ask for better response. Of course it took multiples to get there, but you can certainly get good response with the subs below the mains. Until you run some FR sweeps, you wont know for sure and exactly how your particular room, sub position and seating position all correspond.

In my room, there was no single spot that covered everything well which is why I had to go to multiples.

Having said all that, OP have you experimented with one sub in the rear and one up front? After all my sub shifting, swapping and experimenting, subs in front and rear gave me the best results in my 12x17 sealed room.
Agree with everything you said. The "distributed" multiple subs will provide optimal response. I have 2 subs in the front, one between the R and C, and one on the L at 1/5 of the wall length. The 3rd sub is in the rear at 4/5 of the wall length. My seating is at 1/3 of the long dimension. The "system" yields this response:



(This also shows the added response of PGM2 in my Submersive HP amps. PGM2 adds output at the lowest frequencies; hence the rising response at ULF's.)

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post #16 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 04:59 PM
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Looks excellent Craig. That is very close to how I have my subs placed as well. What are your room dimensions just out of curiosity?

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post #17 of 17 Old 04-06-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Having said all that, OP have you experimented with one sub in the rear and one up front? After all my sub shifting, swapping and experimenting, subs in front and rear gave me the best results in my 12x17 sealed room.

There isnt really any space in the back (theres the couch and then the wall, and the couch is only 9.5ft away from the screen..). That's why I was hoping everything would work out 'ok' with having them under the mains.

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