Which is more important? 117db at 16hz or 96db at 10hz - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 04-07-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Title says it all.
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post #2 of 19 Old 04-07-2013, 11:10 PM
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Well if a particular sub is capable of hitting 117db at 16hz you would have to think at 10hz it should still have more the 96db output.
What subs are you trying to compare?
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post #3 of 19 Old 04-07-2013, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Not one sub, it's dual port subs with steep hp or dual seal subs in large room. Not sure if 10hz extension is important.
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post #4 of 19 Old 04-07-2013, 11:36 PM
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I'll go for big output at 16 hz everyday over so-so output at 10 hz. There isn't much actual 16 hz bass out there, but there is a lot more of it than 10 hz bass. Plus, you can get some kind of sensation from 16 hz, but 10 hz is a lot of nothing, and to make it something you would probably need a lot more than 96 dB of it.
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post #5 of 19 Old 04-07-2013, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I'll go for big output at 16 hz everyday over so-so output at 10 hz. There isn't much actual 16 hz bass out there, but there is a lot more of it than 10 hz bass. Plus, you can get some kind of sensation from 16 hz, but 10 hz is a lot of nothing, and to make it something you would probably need a lot more than 96 dB of it.

+1 too that.
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post #6 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

+1 too that.


+1 from me too smile.gif
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post #7 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

+1 too that.

+1
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post #8 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 05:12 AM
 
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How many seconds in a movie do you expect to have 10Hz replicated and how many seconds of a movie do you expect to have 16Hz replicated?

Somewhere between these two answers will be your answer as one needs to personally decide, what's important and if 10Hz is that philosophically important, my recommendation, add an additional subwoofer that's capable of lifting the left side of your graph, at 10Hz, +20dB. By answering this question, one can decide if the financial investment is worth the additional gained output as in the end, you're the final arbiter and my opinion on anything, doesn't matter.

The point of my above, if having added 10Hz capability means a lot to you, go for it.
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post #9 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

117db at 16hz or 96db at 10hz?

According to the test results of "Watanabe and Møller" (second last page)

- the mean hearing threshold of 10 Hz is at an SPL level of 97.2 dB with a standard deviation of 6.3 dB.
- the mean hearing threshold of 16 Hz is at an SPL level of 87.5 dB with a standard deviation of 5.9 dB.

If the subs can't put out more than 96 dB at 10 Hz then you're not likely to hear the fundamental at all.
Whereas with 117 dB at 16 Hz you'll not only hear it, but also feel it quite vigorously. A clear winner in the fun factor.
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post #10 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 09:39 PM
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I say 117 dBs at 10hz! If these were my only choices I would go with big spl at 17hz.
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post #11 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I been reading the bass movie thread and basically if a movie don't hit 10hz then it's not 5 stars. I watch mwtim and underworld thinking those are 5 star when people only rate them as 4.5. Got me thinking 10hz, is it really that much better than 16hz?
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post #12 of 19 Old 04-08-2013, 10:29 PM
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There is not a lot of content at all that digs down to 10hz but the maniac bass crowd (that includes me and MK tongue.gif ) around here still craves it. Before I could reach down that deep I never really understood what was so special about the F-Ing Irene scene from BHD. Turns out you have to be able to reach way deep to feel the chopper blades and then you say....hmmmmm, now I know what the fuss is about. You really need a lot of displacement in a sealed alignment for it to be meaningful though. If I remember correctly MK uses about a dozen high excursion sealed subs in his set-up and I am running more than any sane human needs as well biggrin.gif

For dual subs I would opt for the higher output ported over sealed. You really need more than 2 to get meaningful 10hz output unless they are of the high excursion 21" subs or a pair of RE Audio XXX 18's in a IB.

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post #13 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 12:48 AM
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it's dual port subs with steep hp or dual seal subs in large room.
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post #14 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 04:39 AM
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FWIW you can probably plug one of the two ports and get deeper bass extension that way.
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post #15 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 07:25 AM
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For some perspective realize that to achieve that 117dB @ 16Hz you need something on the order of 3 of these DIY subwoofers tested by Ilkka. The model on the ports doesn't just keep scaling when you keep adding power. With a sealed subwoofer, your simulations are more likely to hold true within the rated Xmax of the driver.

The question is always a dilemma as to larger/louder using a ported or PR system. A 20Hz or 25Hz tuning would be even louder. In your comparison, it is also ignored that the 10Hz output from the sealed system is likely 10-12dB greater in potential at 20Hz. Of course then the most important detail is the room and application.

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post #16 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 08:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Of course then the most important detail is the room and application.

One must also include in your above, the idiot behind the wheel. tongue.gif
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post #17 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

I been reading the bass movie thread and basically if a movie don't hit 10hz then it's not 5 stars. I watch mwtim and underworld thinking those are 5 star when people only rate them as 4.5. Got me thinking 10hz, is it really that much better than 16hz?

Underworld is 5 stars, I have not watched MWTIF yet. To me it is about reproducing whatever the disc has on it, simple as that. When a disc is filtered is makes me dissapointed but I move on as there is nothing anyone can do. I just enjoy the movie. Yes, the deeper and louder a movie goes should be rewarded with a higher rating. Now if a movie has lots of 95 dB 5-10hz material and 105 dB at 20-40hz is it better than say a movie with 120 dBs from 20-40hz and no under 20hz? I guess it depends on the movie and how well it was done. I can reproduce those low frequencies at high spl's and I run hot so I feel those things much more. So A movie like The Amazing spiderman is better than say The Avengers, only the bass, the Avengers was the better movie.
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post #18 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

+1 too that.

+1 here too.

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post #19 of 19 Old 04-09-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

For some perspective realize that to achieve that 117dB @ 16Hz you need something on the order of 3 of these DIY subwoofers tested by Ilkka.

Or just one of Ricci's Gjallarhorns biggrin.gif

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=45

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