Looking for a great subwoofer with max budget of $400. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 04:52 AM
 
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My understanding, co-location creates a synergistic coupling of sound waves. The benefit being, a 6dB increase in SPL.

To verify this, one can take measurements on two of their subs, one sub turned on at a time. In the simple, turn one sub on, take a measurement, turn the first one off and the second one on and take a second measurement and then turn them both on and take a third measurement. This is an easily verified, naturally occurring phenomenon with each room's acoustics lending it's own damping factor to the above.

My understanding, if each of the subs are within one wave length of each other, this co-location will take place. This means the lower bass or longer wave lengths will take benefit of this natural phenomenon. The longer ones outside the co-location placement distances, won't.

(well that sucks)

What that means, if your subs are ten feet apart, all bets start to shred a bit as a 120Hz sound wave is about 9.4' in length. In our case, we have three subs on one wall, the distances between subs is asymmetrical so depending on the distance each sub is from the other, the co-location boost varies. Which technically makes for personal room related problems and a 3dB drop can cause a measurement graph some consternation.

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post #32 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe0Bloggs View Post

>On the other hand, if the exact same power is delivered into two identical speakers instead of just one, you get a 3 dB increase.

Umm, each speaker is getting half the power which is -3dB right? Unless you assume the conclusion (+6dB by adding and powering a second speaker) how do you get +3dB for the two speakers given half the power each? Double the drivers in double the cab size could increase efficiency but we're talking about two identical separate speakers here, there should be no efficiency gain from a single speaker. Unless you assume power compressiin, but there's no fixed relationship between that and doubling the power on different speaker systems.

The "rule" is 3 dB for two identical drivers with the same power. That is, split the power between two speakers instead of one and you get a louder output. Same power, more surface area to couple with the air. Long established, something I've never seen seriously questioned, at least as a rule of thumb.

AFAIK we are talking about self-powered subwoofers here, and woofer one never sees any power or has any power drain from woofer two. Assuming the two subs are idential and set identically you double power because you have two separate amps, one in each sub, and you double drivers because each sub has its own driver.
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post #33 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 09:25 AM
 
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Using this excursion calculator for sealed subs, one can easily see there's a 6dB bump.

I have 12" drivers and two of the subs have matching 14mm peak excursion based drivers and it shows when two subs are co-located, using 14mm excursion, there's a 6dB bump.

When measured in the fashion I suggested, one at a time being turned on and then both turned on, based on the sub's interaction with a room's acoustics, both subs simultaneously being operated, one can easily verify what the synergistic bump is of two co-locates subs.

Just saying.
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post #34 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 10:23 AM
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Thanks guys, looked into the matter tonight and I just learned something new!
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post #35 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe0Bloggs View Post

Haha, I know panthers from another forum, I recommended the Klipsch to him too but told him to ask around here if he wants to max that $400 budget and is wondering if there's any better than the Klipsch for $100 more. smile.gif

I would suggest he wait until the Klipsch goes off sale, which usually settles in around $350. And if he asks Newegg to waive the free shipping, I bet he can hit that budget amount right on the nose and still get the best sub available for $400.

Don't bother to thank me...rolleyes.gif
+++

Edit: Oops, my words of wisdom are too late, I just read where the OP has already ordered the Kilpsch for $300.

Good choice. cool.gif

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #36 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 06:43 PM
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Klipsch RW-12d without question. Just saw it too, great choice on the RW-12d. biggrin.gif I've got two, which actually replaced the eD a2-300 subs I had. I genuinely think the Klipsch subs are better than the eD's.

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post #37 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

I would suggest he wait until the Klipsch goes off sale, which usually settles in around $350. And if he asks Newegg to waive the free shipping, I bet he can hit that budget amount right on the nose and still get the best sub available for $400.

Don't bother to thank me...rolleyes.gif
+++

Edit: Oops, my words of wisdom are too late, I just read where the OP has already ordered the Kilpsch for $300.

Good choice. cool.gif
Well now I can own the best sub for under $300 (Was 299.99 tongue.gif) and under $400! biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post

Klipsch RW-12d without question. Just saw it too, great choice on the RW-12d. biggrin.gif I've got two, which actually replaced the eD a2-300 subs I had. I genuinely think the Klipsch subs are better than the eD's.
Yay! I love hearing more good things about my purchases!
It will be here on Friday! biggrin.gif Dad will be gone and I don't have anything to do, so I'll be blasting it to whatever electro I have to listen to! Also, where is the subs forum? Or is there not one?
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post #38 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 07:29 PM
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Awesome man, glad you're excited about your new kick ass sub!! Here is sort of the "official" page for the RW-12d

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442829/klipsch-rw-12d-on-sale-for-299-at-newegg-com-again-today/1350#post_23154487

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post #39 of 39 Old 04-17-2013, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake18 View Post

Awesome man, glad you're excited about your new kick ass sub!! Here is sort of the "official" page for the RW-12d

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442829/klipsch-rw-12d-on-sale-for-299-at-newegg-com-again-today/1350#post_23154487
Thanks! I've been disappointed in the bass on my electro tracks and drum kicks lately due to knowing that going from 4inch woofers to a 12 inch subwoofer will make it actually thump, not too mention the tight, low bass (Once I put it in a place with good acoustics)! biggrin.gif Also, I've been looking at a calibration mic, how do those fare with subwoofers?
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