i hate my subs - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: what should i do?
get rid of them 21 80.77%
make a new box 0 0%
use them as rear subs and get a better front 4 15.38%
use them for parts(amp, box, driver) 0 0%
nothing at all 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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so, a while ago i got two polk psw10s to go with some old kenwood floorstanding speakers. then, i got new cerwin vega speakers and i had to push the subs harder to keep up with the CVs. i started to hate them more and more.
(not to sound negative or anything) the bass is ok, but it is ruined by an amazing amount of over powering port noise. i stuck a towel in the port, and the bass became so horribly bad. the port noise starts somewhere around 40-50 hz and at very low levels. what can i do?

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #2 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 05:56 PM
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I don't have advice yet, but I have an observation and a question.

It sounds like you are over-driving the sub.

Also, what AVR/receiver are you using? 2 channel old tech, or 5.1 channel new tech?

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #3 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

I don't have advice yet, but I have an observation and a question.

It sounds like you are over-driving the sub.

Also, what AVR/receiver are you using? 2 channel old tech, or 5.1 channel new tech?

ive tried both. rca and line level. and im not over driving it. i have the volume on the subs at 30-40 percent.

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #4 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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oh and i forgot. i tried giving it a direct signal from my laptop using an aux to rca cable and the bass improved, but the port noise is the same

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #5 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 06:32 PM
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your overdriving the sub...I have used quite a few of those subs for my Touch Tunes juke boxes and they sound fine for a budet sub. it sounds like your appetitie for bass far exceeds the psw10's capability...time to upgrade.
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post #6 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 06:34 PM
 
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My recommendation, within the confines of a loosely based budget, set a budget and pickup a pair of replacement subwoofers. Maybe start by looking at a pair of Klipsch, RW12D's or a pair of Rythmik, LV12R's. Of course three of either would be a better starting point than buying only two.

Have you set a replacement budget?
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post #7 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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ok ill look into them. what about a pair of BIC EV1200 or F12s? do they have a lot of port noise? id rather get two of them then one RW12D. im using for both HT and music

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #8 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 07:22 PM
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The biggest questions are what is the budget and what is the room size. Those are typically followed by are there any openings and what level do you like to listen at. Once those things are known we can make far better suggestions. Otherwise, look around for some quality used or b-stock subs as those will provide the best value for your money.

Your typical recommendations here will run between SVS, PSA, HSU, Outlaw Audio and Rythmik. All starts with the budget.
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post #9 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BZ1974 View Post

The biggest questions are what is the budget and what is the room size. Those are typically followed by are there any openings and what level do you like to listen at. Once those things are known we can make far better suggestions. Otherwise, look around for some quality used or b-stock subs as those will provide the best value for your money.

Your typical recommendations here will run between SVS, PSA, HSU, Outlaw Audio and Rythmik. All starts with the budget.

300 bucks. small bedroom. a door. insanely loud.( i need a sub that will keep up with my cerwin vegas running at 350 watts rms each.biggrin.gif
i would be down for a PA sub, too. in that case, i would probably get a 15 or 18

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #10 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 07:45 PM
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here is a budget 15" sub that will have alot of output and is tuned down to 25hz...for your budget and expectations this may work for you...it says make them a offer so 300.00 might be achievable. head over to data-bass.com for measurements on it.

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1825&sc=28

data bass review
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=48
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post #11 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 07:46 PM
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[quote name="NotInvolved" url="/t/1469341/i-hate-my-subs#post_232303
300 bucks. small bedroom. a door. insanely loud.( i need a sub that will keep up with my cerwin vegas running at 350 watts rms each.biggrin.gif
i would be down for a PA sub, too. in that case, i would probably get a 15 or 18[/quote]

Your not gona get insanely loud with 300 bucks, unless our definitions of insanely are different lol. Everyone at that price will prolly recomend a klipsh rw12d.
How big is your room?
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post #12 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

here is a budget 15" sub that will have alot of output, but does not have alot of extension below 30hz...for your budget and expectations this may work for you...it says make them a offer so 300.00 might be achievable. head over to data-bass.com for measurements on it.

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1825&sc=28

Nice find

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post #13 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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my room is around 10x15 i think. i think loud is around 120-130dbs

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #14 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

here is a budget 15" sub that will have alot of output and is tuned down to 25hz...for your budget and expectations this may work for you...it says make them a offer so 300.00 might be achievable. head over to data-bass.com for measurements on it.

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1825&sc=28

data bass review
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=48

ill pass on that one. the rw12d looks to be my best option. i dont want the 15 because the review said it has port noise and thats the reason i dont like my polks. i now have the polks as rears and at 20% volume to help my cerwin vegas with the real lows. and guess what!?? my polks optimum placement was behind me. so they sound ok, the port noise is no longer a problem, but i am nowhere close to achieving my wanted levels of output.mad.gif

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #15 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInvolved View Post

my room is around 10x15 i think. i think loud is around 120-130dbs

what i posted is the best your going to get ...118db @ 63hz. 120-130db of clean bass with a +/-3db respnse from 20-80hz is going to take about 1500.00. do you want cheese with your wine?
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post #16 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInvolved View Post

ill pass on that one. the rw12d looks to be my best option. i dont want the 15 because the review said it has port noise and thats the reason i dont like my polks. i now have the polks as rears and at 20% volume to help my cerwin vegas with the real lows. and guess what!?? my polks optimum placement was behind me. so they sound ok, the port noise is no longer a problem, but i am nowhere close to achieving my wanted levels of output.mad.gif

you sound lost my fellow member...the klipsch rw-12d is ported and will have some port noise aswell....actually a few members had complained about it, but not many. its a better sub for the fact that it has a flatter response and deeper extension, but it will not have the max spl that the pa150 has.
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post #17 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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well, if im going to spend 450 bucks, i might as well spend an extra 50 and get a cerwin vega xls12s. i atleast know that will give me what i want. 200 bucks over budget though.

but i keep coming back to the f12, the description says there is no port noise. i can get one of them or the rw12d. or find a used sub. does a slot ported sub have less port noise than a regular port

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #18 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:36 PM
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just get 3 of these http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090602&p_id=9723&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

HT~
PANASONIC TC-P50ST60, OPPO BDP-103D, ONKYO TX-NR818, EMOTIVA XDA-2, PANAMAX MR4000, KLIPSCH RF-62's, RC-62, RS-52's, PSA TRIAX
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ADAM AUDIO F5's, EMOTIVA STEALTH DC-1, SVS SB-2000
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post #19 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInvolved View Post

ok ill look into them. what about a pair of BIC EV1200 or F12s? do they have a lot of port noise? id rather get two of them then one RW12D. im using for both HT and music

I'm of a different mindset. One needs to pick one, music or Home Theater and let the other pieces land where they may. If properly integrated, ported or vented, both will give music and Home Theater a decent shake.
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post #20 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm of a different mindset. One needs to pick one, music or Home Theater and let the other pieces land where they may. If properly integrated, ported or vented, both will give music and Home Theater a decent shake.

A properly designed and integrated sub need not be a compromise for music or home theater.

If you're really interested in the most pure music reproduction, you wouldn't even use your subs. wink.gif

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post #21 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInvolved View Post

300 bucks. small bedroom. a door. insanely loud.( i need a sub that will keep up with my cerwin vegas running at 350 watts rms each.biggrin.gif
i would be down for a PA sub, too. in that case, i would probably get a 15 or 18

Yeah, I think I'm beginning to get that about you. wink.gif To get to "insanely loud" you are going to either follow Mr. Josh JP's s suggestion and get about 4 Monoprice subs, arrange them in a square about four feet apart and put a chair in the middle for you to sit on.

Either that, or this:


Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #22 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 09:27 PM
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Keep your current sub's take your $300 and wait however long it takes you to get above $600 and go with outlaw ex

Your going to buy another budget subwoofer and probably not achieve your goal and find yourself in this same position. Your wants exceed your budget. Take it from me its much more expensive to buy upgrade vs save and buy once.

I started with the Bic F12 my first subwoofer, moved up to a PL200, moved up to an Epik Legend and now SVS SB12

Wish i went with dual SVS SB12s would have saved me some cash.

F12 great budget subwoofer, not enough output for my room
Bic PL200 would not properly cross over with my RC Micros, boomy bass bedroom 15x20
Epik Legend, lots of output, sealed so very clean
SVS SB12 I would be surprised to hear a subwoofer with better quality bass than the SB12, medium sized room 12olck on the volume dial shakes the walls, SVS makes quality products, amp, drivers, enclosures are top shelf. I will be selling my Epik and buying two more SVS SB12's for my living room.
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post #23 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by deepat04 View Post

Keep your current sub's take your $300 and wait however long it takes you to get above $600 and go with outlaw ex

Your going to buy another budget subwoofer and probably not achieve your goal and find yourself in this same position. Your wants exceed your budget. Take it from me its much more expensive to buy upgrade vs save and buy once.

True, upgradeitis gets very expensive. Save and buy better equipment the first time, it's much cheaper in the long run.

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post #24 of 52 Old 04-21-2013, 09:36 PM
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I think a sealed rythmik would best an sb12 in quality

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post #25 of 52 Old 04-22-2013, 04:30 AM
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Klipsch RW-12d, currently on sale at Newegg.com for $279.

JBL ES250P, currently on sale at Amazon.com (under the name ES250PBK) for $199, shipped.
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post #26 of 52 Old 04-22-2013, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Klipsch RW-12d, currently on sale at Newegg.com for $279.

JBL ES250P, currently on sale at Amazon.com (under the name ES250PBK) for $199, shipped.

ive wondered about the jbl. how does it do against the f12 or the rw12d? i heard the amps blow up really quick

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #27 of 52 Old 04-22-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
ive wondered about the jbl. how does it do against the f12 or the rw12d? i heard the amps blow up really quick

IMO, the JBL:
- would outperform the comparably-priced BIC in both output and extension;
- might have a bit more overall output than the Klipsch, but less extension.

I've read about a problem with some JBL sub amps. But:
- 70/97 (or ~72%) of the reviews of the JBL on Amazon.com are 5/5; and
- 82/97 (or ~85%) of the reviews are 4/5.
Not sure what to extrapolate from that.

Personally, and for only $80 more than the JBL or the BIC, I'd go with the Klipsch.

----
BIC F-12:
- 12" driver
- 150W RMS amp
- 25-200Hz +/- ?dB

JBL ES250P
- 12" driver
- 400W RMS amp
- 25-150Hz +/- ?dB

Klipsch RW-12d:
- 12" driver
- 350W RMS amp
- 24-120Hz +/-3dB
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post #28 of 52 Old 04-22-2013, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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came across this http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Audio-HD-SUB15-Definition-Subwoofer/dp/B001O6ONNY/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_4

it looks to be alright, but only 50lbs for a 15in sub? that cant be well built. so far im almost certain i will be getting the rw12d, but i want some opinions on this one first.

i was also looking at epik subs. how are they? if they are really good, id be willing to spend a little extra for the dual 12in one

-speakers: cerwin vega vs120s, cerwin vega LS12s, cerwin vega at12s, jbl S36II, pok audio psw10, realistic mc1000, paradigm 7se MKII, sanyo sx600

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post #29 of 52 Old 04-22-2013, 06:23 AM
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See this old AVS thread for some comments on it.
Quote:
]i was also looking at epik subs. how are they?
Well-rated, but out of stock since December. And the owner is next-to-impossible to get a hold of. Read the last few pages in the Official Epik Subwoofer Thread for more information.
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post #30 of 52 Old 04-22-2013, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInvolved View Post

so, a while ago i got two polk psw10s to go with some old kenwood floorstanding speakers. then, i got new cerwin vega speakers and i had to push the subs harder to keep up with the CVs. i started to hate them more and more.
(not to sound negative or anything) the bass is ok, but it is ruined by an amazing amount of over powering port noise. i stuck a towel in the port, and the bass became so horribly bad. the port noise starts somewhere around 40-50 hz and at very low levels. what can i do?

Yes, when I tested the psw10 in a retail showroom, I found it was producing a lot of noticeable port noise. Another person with me at the time noticed the same thing. Not to be too graphic - but it basically sounded like a lot of farting. I ended up buying the Pioneer SW-8 subwoofer, which did not produce the port noise. (Note: This was for a budget 2.1 system in my small home office, and would not meet your needs.)

I currently have the BIC F12 in my home theater. Have not heard any port noise so far, although I likely don't play at your volumes. For $187 I have no complaints. Some people claim the RW12d is better than the F12. Well, hopefully it is, considering it costs $100 or more compared to the F12. They are not in the same price class. I am actually glad that I did not spend a lot on the sub, because after reading through the DIY sub threads, I might down the road try my hand at building a sub, doesn't seem all that difficult and you can build to meet your needs.
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