Sub help - what to get for my new TR???? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which dual sub set-up to buy?
1. Dual SVS PB1000 - $949 0 0%
2. Dual SVS PB12-NSD - $1449 6 46.15%
3. Dual Klipsch SW-115 - $950 7 53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You just need to move on to the big league next biggrin.gif

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

Well seeing that I've already bought some 228ht's I well aware of Jeff's subs. Actually his subs are the reason why I first found out about JTR.

And while I know two XS30's won't have the same output as a Cap 2400, they wouldn't be too far behind and below the port tune of the Cap 2400 dual XS30's would probably actually have more output. And my room is only 2100cubic/ft.
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I must have missed something. You're thinking about adding a second pair of XS30's to a 2,100 cu ft room?

Once a room is filled, help me understand, but isn't a room filled with bass sound? For smoothing purposes, I understand the need to spread the waves around (three or four subs) but human hearing can only endure so much abuse and then the fine little hair in the ear get permanently blown away, never to come back, permanent hearing loss.

Out of curiosity, what's your goal?
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post #93 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I must have missed something. You're thinking about adding a second pair of XS30's to a 2,100 cu ft room?

Once a room is filled, help me understand, but isn't a room filled with bass sound? For smoothing purposes, I understand the need to spread the waves around (three or four subs) but human hearing can only endure so much abuse and then the fine little hair in the ear get permanently blown away, never to come back, permanent hearing loss.

Out of curiosity, what's your goal?

Yes that's something I'm considering. Or waiting for something new from PSA, or moving the XS30's out of the room and going with something different. I have thought about going with dual Cal 2400's from JTR.
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post #94 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Yes that's something I'm considering. Or waiting for something new from PSA, or moving the XS30's out of the room and going with something different. I have thought about going with dual Cal 2400's from JTR.

the other day when i pm'd you, according to your message you said that you have not pushed the xs30's to thier limits? why the sudden urge for more? bragging rights? those 30's got to have more output then a human ears can tolerate for any length of time. I know my xv15's do...I get caught up looking at captivators and funk 18.2's but realistically what would i do with that much subwoofer? Im already pushin 125db at my LP, what would 130-140db do besides make me go deaf that much faster.
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post #95 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 11:43 AM
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I never said I was looking for max SPL out of the subs or pushing my system. But if I had my AVR set at -5 a Cap 2400 would output more bass then a XS30.
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post #96 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 12:03 PM
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I never said I was looking for max SPL out of the subs or pushing my system. But if I had my AVR set at -5 a Cap 2400 would output more bass then a XS30.

what does that matter? -5 is just a number, both subs will have more output than your ears can tolerate in that small room...im failing to understand your logic.
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post #97 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You just need to move on to the big league next biggrin.gif

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

I'm not sure that it would move more air than a XV30 & it costs a lot more. eek.gif

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post #98 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 12:16 PM
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I'm not sure that it would move more air than a XV30 & it costs a lot more. eek.gif

oh yea the jtr captivator has quite a bit more output than a xv30...its a different league and price point. for the average HT room the xv30 is more than most folks need.
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post #99 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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oh yea the jtr captivator has quite a bit more output than a xv30...its a different league and price point. for the average HT room the xv30 is more than most folks need.

I was just looking at the numbers on it & it didn't seem that impressive at a glance for $2500. Heck for around the same money you could buy dual XV30 subs & have better spread, makes more sense to me anyway. There is a point that enough is enough for most of our rooms. biggrin.gif

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post #100 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 12:57 PM
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what does that matter? -5 is just a number, both subs will have more output than your ears can tolerate in that small room...im failing to understand your logic.

Good thing I don't need to explain my logic to you then.

When you pm'd me I said I watch most movies at -5, I never said that I don't listen louder then that.
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post #101 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You just need to move on to the big league next biggrin.gif

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

I'm not sure that it would move more air than a XV30 & it costs a lot more. eek.gif

Moving air? Archaea's video to the point ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlpqBoQ1hoQ

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post #102 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 02:07 PM
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Good thing I don't need to explain my logic to you then.

When you pm'd me I said I watch most movies at -5, I never said that I don't listen louder then that.

correct no need to explain...and i am saying the xs30's in a small room should have more output then a humans ears can tolerate. you followed up with "at -5 the jtr caps will have more bass". which makes no sense because you could turn the gain up if you need more bass...im certain there has to be plenty of head room in that setup.

where i am getting at is you seem to be insecure about your xs30 purchase.I am basing this off of other threads I have seen you post in dating back to last december. something tells me your are not tha happy with them even tho you go around the boards saying you are. I am just curious why that may be? It seems that you mostly use them for movies, that being said I would of went with xv30's. your not even utilizing those subs. In the 15-30hz range, where most movie bass content ranges, the xv15's have a 1db advatage. dual xv30's would net you 5-6db gain in that 15-30hz area. imo there is no point in having any output below that(which I seen you post the same thing in the "2500 dollar budget thread"). I know in other threads you defend by saying "well the xs30's have midbass slam", well thats great and all for music, but does not do much for movies. so I am assuming you are now realizing this after the fact? no need to get huffy over a internet conversation, I was just curious why you were looking to change.... smile.gif
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post #103 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 02:12 PM
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I was just looking at the numbers on it & it didn't seem that impressive at a glance for $2500. Heck for around the same money you could buy dual XV30 subs & have better spread, makes more sense to me anyway. There is a point that enough is enough for most of our rooms. biggrin.gif

oh i agree PSA is bang for buck champion!! yea you can get 2 xv30's for the price of one cap2400.
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post #104 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 02:22 PM
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correct no need to explain...and i am saying the xs30's in a small room should have more output then a humans ears can tolerate. you followed up with "at -5 the jtr caps will have more bass". which makes no sense because you could turn the gain up if you need more bass...im certain there has to be plenty of head room in that setup.

where i am getting at is you seem to be insecure about your xs30 purchase.I am basing this off of other threads I have seen you post in dating back to last december. something tells me your are not tha happy with them even tho you go around the boards saying you are. I am just curious why that may be? It seems that you mostly use them for movies, that being said I would of went with xv30's. your not even utilizing those subs. In the 15-30hz range, where most movie bass content ranges, the xv15's have a 1db advatage. dual xv30's would net you 5-6db gain in that 15-30hz area. imo there is no point in having any output below that(which I seen you post the same thing in the "2500 dollar budget thread"). I know in other threads you defend by saying "well the xs30's have midbass slam", well thats great and all for music, but does not do much for movies. so I am assuming you are now realizing this after the fact? no need to get huffy over a internet conversation, I was just curious why you were looking to change.... smile.gif

Basshead I think you just need to stop reading into things or assuming. I'm happy with the XS30's but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to add to them or try something different. Some people like change just for change. How do you know if you will or won't like something else if you don't try.

Most movies having content down to 15hz? Really? I don't think so. I appreciate much of what you post but at the same time your not an expert and your opinions are just that, your opinions.
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post #105 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 02:34 PM
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oh i agree PSA is bang for buck champion!! yea you can get 2 xv30's for the price of one cap2400.

Lol I think you guys are getting a little carried away.
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post #106 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 02:37 PM
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Basshead I think you just need to stop reading into things or assuming. I'm happy with the XS30's but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to add to them or try something different. Some people like change just for change. How do you know if you will or won't like something else if you don't try.

Most movies having content down to 15hz? Really? I don't think so. I appreciate much of what you post but at the same time your not an expert and your opinions are just that, your opinions.

I am far from a expert and I will be the first to admit it.


I was basing the 15hz comment off of your old post because I thought you were the expert?

"So at 12.5hz the XV30 would be at 96.3db? and at 20hz they're within 1db of each other right? How much real world content is there at 12hz were it would really make a difference. Probably less then 10% of movies."

"Sometimes I think to myself that maybe I should have gotten dual FV15HPs over dual XS30s, but honestly the amount I saved over the FV15HPs and also factoring in that my room is only 2100cubic/ft and I'm not too concerned about having super high db below 15hz I'm glad I stayed with the XS30s. Of course to each their own. With the subs you're looking at your really can't go wrong with any of them. All of them will more then likely sound great without being able to directly compare them in a head to head testing."


" okay, so basically the XV30 doesn't really make anything that registers other then distortion at 12.5hz? Sorry I'm still learning about all of this stuff. In your honest opinion should someone really be concerned if a sub isn't putting up big numbers below 15hz? How much really content is even at that level in movies or music? I know of less then a dozen movies that really have material at that level, unless I'm mistake."

reply from pokekevin,

"Not many films go that low...but Id still love to have a sub that can play that low when their is that sort of content HTTYD for one "
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I'm a hobbiest not an expert, you want that talk directly to someone like Tom, or Mark Seaton when seeking advise from experts. I'm always learning like you bud.

Basshead, I hope you're not taking anything I've said to you as an insult. That's not my intent. What are you running for your speakers? I don't recall every reading anywhere what you have for speakers.
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I'm a hobbiest not an expert,...

I'm a doctor...

(sorry, couldn't restrain myself)
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post #109 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 04:09 PM
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I'm a doctor...

(sorry, couldn't restrain myself)

Haha I said hobbiest not hobbit BeeMan! Lol
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post #110 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 04:40 PM
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I'm a hobbiest not an expert, you want that talk directly to someone like Tom, or Mark Seaton when seeking advise from experts. I'm always learning like you bud.

Basshead, I hope you're not taking anything I've said to you as an insult. That's not my intent. What are you running for your speakers? I don't recall every reading anywhere what you have for speakers.


no not at all...i dont get worked up over internet conversation. simply because its too easy to take things out of context. I simply look at all post in a positive manner. I was just curious what you were thinking, not trying to pry or tell ya what to do. I was at one time seriously considering xs30's and just wanted the skinny on why you were thinking about adding or switching subs...no harm no foul!

I have polk rti-a7 fronts, csi-a4 center, rti-4 surrounds(scored the whole package for 900.00 shipped bnib). thinking about adding a crown xls1500 to drive the a7's a little harder.
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post #111 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 04:45 PM
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Lol I think you guys are getting a little carried away.

rephrase, next to the klipsch rw-12d. smile.gif
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post #112 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 06:57 PM
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It always starts out like that. I thought when I bought my XS30's that $2500 was all I'd ever spend on subs. Now I'm considering ordering another two XS30's to have two stack in each corner of my front wall! eek.gif

^^^ This. I approve. Go for it!!!

 

 

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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I must have missed something. You're thinking about adding a second pair of XS30's to a 2,100 cu ft room?

Once a room is filled, help me understand, but isn't a room filled with bass sound? For smoothing purposes, I understand the need to spread the waves around (three or four subs) but human hearing can only endure so much abuse and then the fine little hair in the ear get permanently blown away, never to come back, permanent hearing loss.

Out of curiosity, what's your goal?

 

What is subjective is what you consider "Filled". It all depends on your listening preferences. If you're not worried about getting significant output in the bottom octaves, you may not need it. However, if this is a goal of yours, then mutliples (and lots of them) is the only way to achieve it.

 

Whether or not is worth the $$$ to get there is subjective. However, all things being equal, a system with reference output to 5hz will always sound better than one only to 15hz when the content exists.



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post #113 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 07:07 PM
 
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What is subjective is what you consider "Filled". It all depends on your listening preferences

Nothing subjective about my thinking. Everything is based on REW and measuring microphones. That's why I ask what the ultimate goal is. One can only go so loud and then their choices are, use hearing protection or damage their hearing.

Four XS30's in a 2,100 cu ft room can do serious damage to one's hearing.

Back in the day, I had a buddy with a Riviera that had 650H.P.. Well, as expected, that 650H.P caused that Riviera total damage. Fortunately he came out undamaged. The point, too many dB's in a small room will cause one's hearing serious permanent damage. And if that's what one is willing to do, then hey, turn up the volume.

-
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post #114 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You just need to move on to the big league next biggrin.gif

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

While the JTR's look quite captivating, it really bugs me when ID companies list a suggested cost significantly higher than the selling price. In my opinion this is pure marketing BS. The Captivator is a great sub, but dont list it at over $3K MSRP when it sells direct for significantly less.

Varibus Mari Victoria
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post #115 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 09:26 PM
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Nothing subjective about my thinking. Everything is based on REW and measuring microphones. That's why I ask what the ultimate goal is. One can only go so loud and then their choices are, use hearing protection or damage their hearing.

Four XS30's in a 2,100 cu ft room can do serious damage to one's hearing.

Back in the day, I had a buddy with a Riviera that had 650H.P.. Well, as expected, that 650H.P caused that Riviera total damage. Fortunately he came out undamaged. The point, too many dB's in a small room will cause one's hearing serious permanent damage. And if that's what one is willing to do, then hey, turn up the volume.

-

Potentially, but it doesn't mean you have to listen at those frequencies that would cause hearing damage.

 

Maximum output would likely be in the in the mid and upper bass range. However, in order to achieve near reference level output in the lower octaves you would typically have to have very high output in the higher sub octaves for sealed subs. 

 

Think of it this way for sealed subs: near reference level output in the bottom octaves is a by product of above reference output in the higher sub octaves.

 

You then use EQ to flatten out the upper sub octave peaks to prevent (as you say 'hearing damage'), and effectively raise the bottom octaves. The result would potentially be that you could listen to the entire sub bandwidth range at reference level. 



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post #116 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 09:28 PM
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While the JTR's look quite captivating, it really bugs me when ID companies list a suggested cost significantly higher than the selling price. In my opinion this is pure marketing BS. The Captivator is a great sub, but dont list it at over $3K MSRP when it sells direct for significantly less.

Jeff lists an MSRP because there is some actually guys who sell JTR in there stores. It has nothing to do with marketing BS but thanks for the input rolleyes.gif.

You must not be familiar with Jeff or the JTR brand, if you were you'd know that nothing Jeff does is about marketing BS.
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post #117 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Nothing subjective about my thinking. Everything is based on REW and measuring microphones. That's why I ask what the ultimate goal is. One can only go so loud and then their choices are, use hearing protection or damage their hearing.

Four XS30's in a 2,100 cu ft room can do serious damage to one's hearing.

Back in the day, I had a buddy with a Riviera that had 650H.P.. Well, as expected, that 650H.P caused that Riviera total damage. Fortunately he came out undamaged. The point, too many dB's in a small room will cause one's hearing serious permanent damage. And if that's what one is willing to do, then hey, turn up the volume.

-

A single XS30 could probably damage your hearing in a 2100cubic/ft room, it's also not a sealed room. It has a 6ft wide opening into another 800cubic/ft area plus a 8ft long hallway until you get to the stairs to go upstairs. Some of you guys act like I'm the first person to have a lot of bass in a smaller size room....lol
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post #118 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 09:53 PM
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I will soon have Dual XV-30's in a 13x15x8 room wink.gif

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post #119 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
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I will soon have Dual XV-30's in a 13x15x8 room wink.gif

nice!
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post #120 of 138 Old 05-04-2013, 11:10 PM
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Thanks wink.gif

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