Sub help - what to get for my new TR???? - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which dual sub set-up to buy?
1. Dual SVS PB1000 - $949 0 0%
2. Dual SVS PB12-NSD - $1449 6 46.15%
3. Dual Klipsch SW-115 - $950 7 53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 138 Old 04-21-2013, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been going nuts trying to figure out what subs to get for my ne wTR. The room is 18x16x9 or 2600 c/f. It will only be used for movies. I've been so curious about SVS subs & the specs on the PB1000 really had me looking at it but some have said it was too small for my room. I want dual subs and I've narrowed it down to the following choices. I can get a great deal for the Klipsch SW-115 at 10% over cost from a friend but I've never been overly impressed with Klipsch subs even though the SW-115 does sound loud. My front towers are full range Energy APS 5+2 powered towers with dual 8" subs in each tower. I have the matching center AC300 that runs with a Polk PSW505 12" sub for full range sound on all 3 front channels. My overall system will be a 9.2 set-up. Can these new wireless sub systems run dual subs? Thanks for any input. My choices are the follwing...

1. Dual SVS PB1000 - $949
2. Dual SVS PB12-NSD - $1449
3. Dual Klipsch SW-115 - $950

The Klipsch are a great deal but I don't want to get them just trying to save a few bucks.

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post #2 of 138 Old 04-22-2013, 02:57 AM
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Any particular reason you would like dual subs?

IMO, as you have a $1,450 max budget I would add a Rythmik FV15HP, Power Sounds XS30 or dual XV15s, dual Outlaw LFM-1 EX, or check around and see if you can get a used Seaton Submersive. If you are handy, you may convert dual AV123 MFW-15s to their turbo charged versions and be extremely happy with that.

One great sub can crush two lesser subs.
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post #3 of 138 Old 04-22-2013, 03:10 AM
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At $1500, you can get dual Hsu VTF3s, and for just a bit over that you can get dual PSA XV15s, either of which will knock out the SVS subs and should come close to equaling the Klipsch subs in output if not match or exceed them, and beat them in extension. But at that Klipsch discount, it looks like you could get three of them which would be an insane value at $1500. If you set three of those brutes up correctly it will give you a beautiful FR at every seat. If you can only get two subs, for for PSA's or Hsus, but if you can accommodate three, get the Klipsch's. SVS's are not competing at this point in output or extension.
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post #4 of 138 Old 04-22-2013, 07:12 AM
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^what he said...sorry to say but SVS can no longer compete with the other ID companies on a price vs performance standpoint. 2 xv15's fromPSA are 1518.00 shipped to your door and will nock the sox of off any SVS sub other than the pb13 ultra...one of those cost 2k and 2 xv15's would smash it for 500.00 less. however I would get the sw-115's for 950.00, thats a smoking deal!
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post #5 of 138 Old 04-22-2013, 07:22 AM
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Dual PB-1000s would work very well in your HT space. Dual PB12-NSDs would be even better.

But if you are willing and able to spend up to ~$1,500, dual XV15s ($1,518.10, shipped) would be the best option. cool.gif
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post #6 of 138 Old 04-22-2013, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I've heard such great things about SVS subs over the years I was liking what I saw from them & the reviews. There seem to be so many options & from subs that I've never heard of before. I had been thinking of dual subs for my 9.2 system just to get more sound while not having to drive a single sub as hard. I wasn't sure how much sub I really needed. I have a single Energy S12.3 that sounds great to me in a larger space in my family room. This is the reason that I was originally looking at the dual PB1000. I started looking at the PB12-NSD thinking that it should produce more sound & sound even better than my S12.3 & with 2 of them it should rock my TR. It also seemed that they would be better built then the SW-115 but the deal on the SW-115 is such a deal but I want an excellent product too & I feel that the SVS, and others mentioned too would be better built & sound better. The $1500 isn't a hard number, I just thought that I could get more then enough sound for my TR at that point. I also thought about buying a single PB12-NSD to see how it sounded & add another one if I wanted too. The PSA XV15 looks to be a good option too. The more I learn the harder this gets! eek.gif

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post #7 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 04:44 AM
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I can gurantee the sw-115 will have considerably more output then both of those SVS subs. Fwiw Tom @ PSA is one of the guys who started SVS. Contact him if you will...he told me that 1 xv15's(799.00 shipped) would have the same output as two pb12nsd's(1449.00 shipped)... a closer comparison from a performance standpoint would be the pb12 plus, then compare prices. like I said SVS is no longer a value leader in Internet Direct sub's, they are a high quality sub no doubt. Its just a simple fact other companies are offering more for less. I was in the same boat as you a month ago. I spent weeks researching subs and contacting ID companies...Imo my business would go to PSA or HSU because of thier quality product, customer service, and bang for the buck. I have around 50 return emails from Tom @ PSA, he even responds at 11:00pm, no other company does that from my experience. He will take the time to make sure your happy and everything is setup and working correctly. That imo goes along way smile.gif Read the Power Sound Audio thread, website, and then give Tom a shout...
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post #8 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 05:11 AM
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check the thread out for comparisons...@ 16hz 1 psa xv15 has +5db output over the pb12nsd and avg. +7db output across the fr range. so it would take 2 pb12nsd to equal 1 xv15.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems
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post #9 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

check the thread out for comparisons...@ 16hz 1 psa xv15 has +5db output over the pb12nsd and avg. +7db output across the fr range. so it would take 2 pb12nsd to equal 1 xv15.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems
...... and looking at those charts, @12.5hz the Rythmik FV15HP is putting out 98.5db which is more than the XV15's 98.1db @16hz. At 16hz the FV15HP is putting out almost 6db more than the XV15 (104db vs 98.1db). It just goes to show ya, you get what you pay for.........most of the time. wink.gif

One glaring thing missing from those specs is, where is HSU??? They have awesome subs too and they have been flat out ignored. mad.gif

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post #10 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

...... and looking at those charts, @12.5hz the Rythmik FV15HP is putting out 98.5db which is more than the XV15's 98.1db @16hz. At 16hz the FV15HP is putting out almost 6db more than the XV15 (104db vs 98.1db). It just goes to show ya, you get what you pay for.........most of the time. wink.gif

One glaring thing missing from those specs is, where is HSU??? They have awesome subs too and they have been flat out ignored. mad.gif

2 rythmik fv15hp are 2573.00 shipped...2 xv15's are 1518.00 shipped, i can add a 3rd for a total of 2267.00 and have more output than 2 fv15hp's...yep ya sure do get what ya pay for now dont ya? wink.gif
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post #11 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 03:00 PM
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It is true that folks buy sub based on output and extension but don't forget to factor in the servo part Rythmik offers. It is the most accurate/musical sub I have heard in its price range. I have not heard any of the PSA sub however.
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post #12 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

It is true that folks buy sub based on output and extension but don't forget to factor in the servo part Rythmik offers. It is the most accurate/musical sub I have heard in its price range. I have not heard any of the PSA sub however.

the point to all this was the op had 1500.00 to spend. the xv15's were the best option in his budget range. I would much rather have dual subs instead of one...nobody here said the rythmik is a bad sub, they are awsome for those who have the coin to drop on them. I would much rather have 2 xv15's over one fv15hp...of course I would rather have 2 fv15hp's over 2 xv15's, but for 1000.00 difference, well yea thats up to the end user to decide. I never said PSA is the end all of ID sub companies, however bang for the buck and the outstanding customer service they offer is hard to rival. yes there are better subs on the market, never once did i say otherwise.
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post #13 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 03:28 PM
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also i believe in my initial post i said to go with the sw-115's for 950.00... thats a smokin deal.

oh and to touch bass on rythmiks servo technology. that really only comes into play when trying to extract the most out of the sub, hince how they get the extra spl out of the fv15hp. has nothing to do with being musical. one can take multiple subs and not drive them as hard and achieve the same thing. some folks get caught up on a technology that one company has because they do not see it elsewhere. servo is a great technology, but at a cost. for folks limited to one sub and want max output available, then the fv15hp is a great option. however folks that have room for multiple subs, spending the extra money on a servo sub is not as big of deal.
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post #14 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 06:07 PM
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IIRC, doesn't adding a second sub give you ~3 db boost. It still seems logical the the OP should also consider the Rythmik FV15HP since it pretty much runs 6db higher than the XV15, goes lower and would fill his 2600 cu/ft room quite nicely. It is the only sub that was given the "extreme room" award in that Audioholic sub shootout from a couple years ago. And it still falls below his $1500.00 budget.

There's so many good choices out there that information overload is inevitable. It is a good time to be into this hobby. smile.gif

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post #15 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

IIRC, doesn't adding a second sub give you ~3 db boost. It still seems logical the the OP should also consider the Rythmik FV15HP since it pretty much runs 6db higher than the XV15, goes lower and would fill his 2600 cu/ft room quite nicely. It is the only sub that was given the "extreme room" award in that Audioholic sub shootout from a couple years ago. And it still falls below his $1500.00 budget.

There's so many good choices out there that information overload is inevitable. It is a good time to be into this hobby. smile.gif

no it can give up to 6db per sub...depends if they are coupled or not. fyi i hit 122db uncorrected on my radio shack spl meter with 2xv15's with some headroom left. that measurement was taken from my LP. Whats your fv15hp hit?
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post #16 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

no it can give up to 6db per sub...depends if they are coupled or not. fyi i hit 122db uncorrected on my radio shack spl meter with 2xv15's with some headroom left. that measurement was taken from my LP. Whats your fv15hp hit?
I don't know as I never play it that loud.......even if just to experiment. My hearing is too valuable to be gettin all wreckless. I'm glad that your subs are doin what you want them to do, so is mine.

My intention is not to get into some sort of sub pissing match here and if it makes you happy, you win! I'm merely trying to point out that there are more choices than the few the OP listed that are well within his budget, that's all. cool.gif

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post #17 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

I don't know as I never play it that loud.......even if just to experiment. My hearing is too valuable to be gettin all wreckless. I'm glad that your subs are doin what you want them to do, so is mine.

My intention is not to get into some sort of sub pissing match here and if it makes you happy, you win! I'm merely trying to point out that there are more choices than the few the OP listed that are well within his budget, that's all. cool.gif

thats what they invented ear plugs ie hearing protection for...tongue.gif

if you were "merely" trying to inform the op about other options, you would not of put me on blast with your first post. perhaps you should go back and reread and you will see why im getting slightly defensive. I know rythmik is a better sub and I was quite aware of the data bass tests before I went with PSA...so there was no need to throw that jab. Fwiw I was originally going to buy from them, but there customer service is lacking imo. RYTHMIK is a TOP NOTCH SUBWOOFER, neve once did I deny it or ever will. Now please lets move on and let the op make his decision. smile.gif
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post #18 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 07:01 PM
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Yeah, I could see how it might have hit you that way.........it was not at all my intent. Just was pointing out that the chart you posted also showed other qualifying options at his disposal. Sorry if I offended. Agreed, let's move on.

I am kinda curious....... you don't really wear earplugs when doin those callibrations, do you? eek.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #19 of 138 Old 04-23-2013, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Yeah, I could see how it might have hit you that way.........it was not at all my intent. Just was pointing out that the chart you posted also showed other qualifying options at his disposal. Sorry if I offended. Agreed, let's move on.

I am kinda curious....... you don't really wear earplugs when doin those callibrations, do you? eek.gifbiggrin.gif


cool apology accepted!

I always wear hearing protection when measuring with rew or max spl testing. The one time i did not resulted in ears ringing. Too many years of high spl car audio in my younger days. I believe I may have some slight damage on the low end since I like to run my subs fairly hot...not 100%
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post #20 of 138 Old 04-24-2013, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I do appreciate all the info guys! I'm very excited to see the performance benefit that the PSA offers over the SVS for similar money. I looked at their web site but the pics seem to show the sub differently. Do you have a good picture of what it looks like. It fires downward onto a plate of some sort. Does this matter? I always thought that a forward firing sub would be best but maybe this doesn't matter? I still get the feeling that the build quality & customer service from companies like PSA & SVS are miles above the Klipsch but the bottom line is am I stupid for not doing the deal on the Klipsch SW-115 or is the additional $500 worth it for the PSA subs?

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post #21 of 138 Old 04-24-2013, 12:57 AM
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Since bass is omnidirectional the orientation of the driver is not terribly important as far as response. However, Bill Fitzmaurice (loudspeaker designer of note) likes to say down firing has advantages in that info beyond the frequency range is not being directed directly at the listening position (note: Bill would be much more accurate in the description, I am poorly paraphrasing from my faulty memories of a recent post by Bill in aonther thread).

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post #22 of 138 Old 04-24-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post

I do appreciate all the info guys! I'm very excited to see the performance benefit that the PSA offers over the SVS for similar money. I looked at their web site but the pics seem to show the sub differently. Do you have a good picture of what it looks like. It fires downward onto a plate of some sort. Does this matter? I always thought that a forward firing sub would be best but maybe this doesn't matter? I still get the feeling that the build quality & customer service from companies like PSA & SVS are miles above the Klipsch but the bottom line is am I stupid for not doing the deal on the Klipsch SW-115 or is the additional $500 worth it for the PSA subs?


did you look at the data-bass thread? max output on a pb12nsd is 109db, max on the psa 2xv15 116.8, and the xv15 has a 5db adavantage at 16hz. so 2 pb12's will not have the out put of 1 xv15. I would cross them off your list.

Like I said in one of your other posts...if you could get me 2 sw-115's for 950.00 shipped I would buy them, thats a smoking deal...the xv15 is a better sub, but for the cost difference its a close one.

here is a good read on the sw-115. its rated 18-150hz +/-3d with a max spl of 121db corner loaded. take note that is not how data bass measures subs so subtract about -12db to compare with data bass charts. so your looking at 109-110db max output at 30hz. so basically the xv15 will extend lower 16hz and has considerable more out put @ 116db. also PSA has a 5yr warranty opposed to Klipsch 2yr warranty.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/klipsch-sw-115-pre

the next thing to take in consideration is, how much output do you need? 2 sw-115's will get ya into reference levels with ease and thats pretty good for under 1000.00 dollars. definately a much better value than the SVS PB12NSD.
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post #23 of 138 Old 04-24-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

did you look at the data-bass thread? max output on a pb12nsd is 109db, max on the psa 2xv15 116.8, and the xv15 has a 5db adavantage at 16hz. so 2 pb12's will not have the out put of 1 xv15. I would cross them off your list.

Like I said in one of your other posts...if you could get me 2 sw-115's for 950.00 shipped I would buy them, thats a smoking deal...the xv15 is a better sub, but for the cost difference its a close one.

here is a good read on the sw-115. its rated 18-150hz +/-3d with a max spl of 121db corner loaded. take note that is not how data bass measures subs so subtract about -12db to compare with data bass charts. so your looking at 109-110db max output at 30hz. so basically the xv15 will extend lower 16hz and has considerable more out put @ 116db. also PSA has a 5yr warranty opposed to Klipsch 2yr warranty.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/klipsch-sw-115-pre

the next thing to take in consideration is, how much output do you need? 2 sw-115's will get ya into reference levels with ease and thats pretty good for under 1000.00 dollars. definately a much better value than the SVS PB12NSD.

How much output do I need is a question that is driving me crazy. That is what first attracted me to Dual PB1000 SVS subs. I loved that they could get down to 19 htz and had a small footprint. I've been trying to balance output, size & performance that would satisfy me in my 2600 c/f room. The SW-115 is just plain huge when I saw it & I'm worried that 2 of them would be overwhelming. I'm planning on placing the 2 subs on the front wall under the screen on either side of the center channel & L/R towers. The hardest part is that I'would most likely be happy with any of these set-ups but trying to pick the one I want the most is hard. eek.gif

I know that every time I've looked at going to a better sub that performance has gotten better but I would only know what would be good enough if I could try them all! This is my path I've taken so far.

My 1st choice.... Dual SVS PB1000

Then I decided on getting Dual SVS PB12-NSD

Then Dual PSA XV15 looked great at a similar price.

The SW-115 has always been there too with the deal that I can get but I worry that the footprint is just too big for where I'm going to put them.

I'm guessing that the SVS PB12-NSB will out perform my Energy S12.3 & I love how it sounds in a larger space. So by having Dual PB12-NSB subs I'm sure that it would blow me away. So by going to Dual PSA XV15 that sound just gets even better & deeper. Damn I hate decisions. mad.gif

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post #24 of 138 Old 04-25-2013, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post

How much output do I need is a question that is driving me crazy. That is what first attracted me to Dual PB1000 SVS subs. I loved that they could get down to 19 htz and had a small footprint. I've been trying to balance output, size & performance that would satisfy me in my 2600 c/f room. The SW-115 is just plain huge when I saw it & I'm worried that 2 of them would be overwhelming. I'm planning on placing the 2 subs on the front wall under the screen on either side of the center channel & L/R towers. The hardest part is that I'would most likely be happy with any of these set-ups but trying to pick the one I want the most is hard. eek.gif

I know that every time I've looked at going to a better sub that performance has gotten better but I would only know what would be good enough if I could try them all! This is my path I've taken so far.

My 1st choice.... Dual SVS PB1000

Then I decided on getting Dual SVS PB12-NSD

Then Dual PSA XV15 looked great at a similar price.

The SW-115 has always been there too with the deal that I can get but I worry that the footprint is just too big for where I'm going to put them.

I'm guessing that the SVS PB12-NSB will out perform my Energy S12.3 & I love how it sounds in a larger space. So by having Dual PB12-NSB subs I'm sure that it would blow me away. So by going to Dual PSA XV15 that sound just gets even better & deeper. Damn I hate decisions. mad.gif

see i guess thats where we differ...im the type a person that wants the best he can get for the budget allowed...all else comes second. there for PSA XV15's now reside in my living room. no way would I be happy knowing I spent the same amount of money on subs with considerably less output.
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post #25 of 138 Old 04-25-2013, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

see i guess thats where we differ...im the type a person that wants the best he can get for the budget allowed...all else comes second. there for PSA XV15's now reside in my living room. no way would I be happy knowing I spent the same amount of money on subs with considerably less output.

I agree, that's how I've got so close to pulling the trigger on 2 of them too. Then I wonder if 2 of the SW-115 would perform the same & for much less but then the size issue is a concern! Crazy stuff, it's like a bandaid, I just need to do it! rolleyes.gif

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post #26 of 138 Old 04-25-2013, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post

I agree, that's how I've got so close to pulling the trigger on 2 of them too. Then I wonder if 2 of the SW-115 would perform the same & for much less but then the size issue is a concern! Crazy stuff, it's like a bandaid, I just need to do it! rolleyes.gif

the xv15 is going to have more ouptut. however 950.00 for a pair might be the best bang for the buck sub out there. I would buy them, if they are not enough, return them and get xv15's. I about gurantee they will have plenty of output. However i dont think they will have the sound quality of the psa subs...1"thick cabinets and dsp controlled amps make a huge difference in sound quality. 93lbs vs 71lbs. i know decisions decisions...lol.
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post #27 of 138 Old 04-25-2013, 09:34 PM
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How do you know the XV15 will have more output? There is no measurements of the SW-115. Depending on the Sw-115's driver, it could very easily have more output than the XV15. Also, DSPs in amps won't necessarily make a difference in sound quality at all.
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post #28 of 138 Old 04-26-2013, 12:38 AM
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Those Klipsch subs at those prices are a steal. I would get 3 of them and call it a day smile.gif
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post #29 of 138 Old 04-26-2013, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

How do you know the XV15 will have more output? There is no measurements of the SW-115. Depending on the Sw-115's driver, it could very easily have more output than the XV15. Also, DSPs in amps won't necessarily make a difference in sound quality at all.

read this link.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/klipsch-sw-115-pre

max spl of 121db 1/8space. the xv15 was measured 1/2 space open ground plane and hit 116.6 db.

now read this.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/subwoofer-room-size


and didnt i say to get the sw115's more than once? im just trying to share all the info i found on the subs. remember when i was going to buy dual sw115's and everbody told me to stick with svs, hsu, rythmik, or psa. for 950.00 i would still get the the sw115's, wha is 1,2, or 4 db going to make. they will have plenty of output.
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post #30 of 138 Old 04-26-2013, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Those Klipsch subs at those prices are a steal. I would get 3 of them and call it a day smile.gif

bingo!
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