Actual buying price of JL F112, F113, and F212 in USA - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello there,
I am wondering about the gap difference between MSRP and real price paid to the dealer on JL products.
As I don't live in USA, my local JL prices converted into US currency are below

JL F112, --> $3,690
JL F113, --> $4,450
JL F212, --> $7,172 ......More than the suggested $6300 MRSP...

How much do you guy pay in USA to get JLA products?
Thank you/
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post #2 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narutium View Post

Hello there,
I am wondering about the gap difference between MSRP and real price paid to the dealer on JL products.
As I don't live in USA, my local JL prices converted into US currency are below

JL F112, --> $3,690
JL F113, --> $4,450
JL F212, --> $7,172 ......More than the suggested $6300 MRSP...

How much do you guy pay in USA to get JLA products?
Thank you/

Why would you want JL products when there are others better priced than any dealer "deal"?

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post #3 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 08:00 PM
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It's amazing to me what people are willing to pay for JL subs. IMO a Seaton SubMersive HP would best anything JL has and save you a LOT of money. Two SubM HP's would only be about 5grand and would walk all over a single F212 IMO.

Sorry I'm not trying to knock JL subs and people are free to spend their money however they like, I just don't see the appeal of JL subs for what they cost.
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post #4 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 08:18 PM
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Some people want high performing subs but don't have the space for a monster like the Submersive. The JL Audio subs are pretty good performers for their size if not cost.
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post #5 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 08:27 PM
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I could defiantly see the appeal if they were about 50% less in price but honestly how much more output would a F113 have over a F15HP?
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post #6 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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To be honest, I am looking for a good performance subwoofer
Paradigm Sub 1 , and JL audio 112
it's available locally for ($US converted)

Paradigm Sub 1 =$4,655 US
JL audio 112=$3,689US

I saw many people mentioned about Seaton , but i never heard the name of this sub before as it's not available in my country.
JL audio is well known and there are so many publications / review (paid or not paid I don't know) but big magazines like stereophile and the absolute sound have been yelling that JL is good... top-notch performance. More importantly, JL is said to have 8 patents on its drivers which is unbelievably excellent. A rip-off price is set on each and every JL model sold.

While paradigm Sub 1 has rarely been mentioned anywhere except on the internet like avs...
maybe, In total it makes a newbie like me looking for a subwoofer with some assurance (like reviews) to buy.. at a higher price.

As I used to live in Boston, I know that MSRP <--> Street price are different. but I cannot do anything. it's a price I have to pay for not living in USA
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post #7 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 08:56 PM
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post #8 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

It's amazing to me what people are willing to pay for JL subs. IMO a Seaton SubMersive HP would best anything JL has and save you a LOT of money. Two SubM HP's would only be about 5grand and would walk all over a single F212 IMO.

Sorry I'm not trying to knock JL subs and people are free to spend their money however they like, I just don't see the appeal of JL subs for what they cost.

SB13 Ultra x2 small footprint with the ouput. Big black box in a living room not very aesthetically pleasing nor required to get the ouput most people enjoy.
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post #9 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 09:57 PM
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I paid $5000 for a pair of jl f113s brand new, no haggling reqired. Great subs. Unbeatable for their size and those saying other subs "walk" all over them clearly haven't compared them directly. They're as musical as anything our there. Go pretty low and loud for most peoples needs. Obviously not as much as their large enclosured internet direct counterparts. But for their size, theyre amazing. And they look pretty sexy to boot.

I'm not sure where you live but the price I paid was for a pair at a dealer in the US. I would go a pair of f113s over a 212. Now a f213.....damn that would be sweet. Resell value is probably a tad better vs subs you could buy off the internet as it is a more popular and well known product. Not just on online forums.
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post #10 of 32 Old 04-24-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by club968 View Post

I paid $5000 for a pair of jl f113s brand new, no haggling reqired. Great subs. Unbeatable for their size and those saying other subs "walk" all over them clearly haven't compared them directly. They're as musical as anything our there. Go pretty low and loud for most peoples needs. Obviously not as much as their large enclosured internet direct counterparts. But for their size, theyre amazing. And they look pretty sexy to boot.

I'm not sure where you live but the price I paid was for a pair at a dealer in the US. I would go a pair of f113s over a 212. Now a f213.....damn that would be sweet. Resell value is probably a tad better vs subs you could buy off the internet as it is a more popular and well known product. Not just on online forums.

I'd like to see some 2m ground plane measurements on a F113 before I believe that statement. The SVS SB13 Ultra and Rythmik E15 are very similar in size to a F113 and I'd have a hard time believing the JL would be a whole lot better then either of those by a large margin. And while 5grand for a pair of F113 is a great price it's still a crazy amount of money for what you could get by some great ID companies.

I honestly feel subs from companies like JL and Paradigm are geared towards the end user that has the extra cash that just wants what is assumed to be the best subs around. My friend works at a high end audio store that sells JL and Paradigm subs among a few others and he was floored by the performance of my dual PSA XS30's after hearing them. And he's personally heard all of the high end brands that they sell. Like I said I'm not trying to knock the JL subs, they are nice. Just way over priced IMO.
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post #11 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 12:05 AM
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Here are some 2 m ground planes of the F113. Remember that the price you pay for a f113 isn't just for the performance, its for the size, the fine finish, and the onboard features like the A.R.O. These subs aren't made for the same purposes and can't be fairly compared.
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post #12 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 10:19 AM
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Thanks for posting that shadyj, but after looking at them it confirms what I've thought all along about the JL subs. Nice subs but crazy money for what you get, I'd take a SVS SB13Ultra or E15 from Rythmik and just pocket a whole lot of extra cash and put it towards speakers or something else in a system. Back in 2008 those were great numbers but by what's available today from great ID companies IMO its just crazy to spend that kind of cash on a JL sub.

But to each their own I guess.
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post #13 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Thanks for posting that shadyj, but after looking at them it confirms what I've thought all along about the JL subs. Nice subs but crazy money for what you get, I'd take a SVS SB13Ultra or E15 from Rythmik and just pocket a whole lot of extra cash and put it towards speakers or something else in a system. Back in 2008 those were great numbers but by what's available today from great ID companies IMO its just crazy to spend that kind of cash on a JL sub.

But to each their own I guess.

The point that was made earlier that the JL's offer a unique combination of size, finish, and output. The SVS, for example, is more than double the cu in.

If you don't need the form factor or finish, no argument that the JL isn't the most economical choice, but in a mixed use room, the JL's are a lot less physically imposing than almost all of the alternatives with similar performance. It's a niche product, but if you're in that niche....
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post #14 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

The point that was made earlier that the JL's offer a unique combination of size, finish, and output. The SVS, for example, is more than double the cu in.

If you don't need the form factor or finish, no argument that the JL isn't the most economical choice, but in a mixed use room, the JL's are a lot less physically imposing than almost all of the alternatives with similar performance. It's a niche product, but if you're in that niche....

Sorry? The F113 is 16.5wide x 19.6high x 19.25deep. A SB13Ultra is 17.4wide x 17.4high x 17.4deep, so how exactly is it double the size of a F113?
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post #15 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Sorry? The F113 is 16.5wide x 19.6high x 19.25deep. A SB13Ultra is 17.4wide x 17.4high x 17.4deep, so how exactly is it double the size of a F113?

My mistake - misread it as the PC Ultra.

The SB Ultra does not have the output of the F113. This was confirmed by Ed Mullen on one of the AVS SVS threads a year or so ago when that question was asked directly.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1227670/svs-sealed-subs/330#post_19099571
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post #16 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Thanks for posting that shadyj, but after looking at them it confirms what I've thought all along about the JL subs. Nice subs but crazy money for what you get, I'd take a SVS SB13Ultra or E15 from Rythmik and just pocket a whole lot of extra cash and put it towards speakers or something else in a system. Back in 2008 those were great numbers but by what's available today from great ID companies IMO its just crazy to spend that kind of cash on a JL sub.

But to each their own I guess.

Remember a lot of people with money are not trolling AVS and other audio sites. They typically hire an AV company and the company recommends speakers and subs, and usually these AV companies are going to buy the expensive stuff that has lots of markup. I think JL makes some nice stuff, but they are not going after people that are bang for the buck type. I have a friend who used to do installs around the Park City Utah area and you would be shocked at how much people spend on some of their "winter skiing homes" sight unseen. They basically handover a check for $50-100K+ to a company and they spend the money smile.gif

Small, compact, and looks good are probably a priority over sounds good biggrin.gif Oh yeah, it has to cost a lot too and have a big name...
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post #17 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 04:06 PM
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Like I've said before, to each their own. I guess I've always just been of the mind set that I research product before I hand over my hard earned cash. And in less then 10mins you could find better options unless you were someone who had to have JL subs.

JL subs are really nice, just crazy expensive IMO.
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post #18 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Like I've said before, to each their own. I guess I've always just been of the mind set that I research product before I hand over my hard earned cash. And in less then 10mins you could find better options unless you were someone who had to have JL subs.

JL subs are really nice, just crazy expensive IMO.

The JL subs are available at a significant discount, so the real price is about 70% or less than MSRP. Still not a budget sub, but competitive with other top product from Seaton and SVS

As before, the JL has a specific use case where it makes sense. It's easy to say there are better options but I'm still not aware of the vast array of subs that are the same size, fit and finish as an F113, with equal or better output, and substantially less cost than a realistic out the door price for the JL. The SVS sb can't match it's performance and the rythmik's fit and finish isn't close to the JL.

If I had a dedicated theater, I would go another direction.
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post #19 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 05:34 PM
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Yes for their size they cannot be beat. And prices are found at reasonable discounts. I don't have a dedicated home theater room and those subs tucked away neatly into a corner. They sounded fantastic and when calibrated were seamless with the rest of my equipment. I now also have a pair of Funk Audio 18.0 subs. Sure they have more output and all sorts of better specs. But I am challeneged to tell the difference when I have everything properly calibrated. Sure they could go louder but it's not my intent to drown out everything else in the room. Unless I'm trying to show off I suppose, then the Funks give my JLs an inferiority complex.
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post #20 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

The JL subs are available at a significant discount, so the real price is about 70% or less than MSRP. Still not a budget sub, but competitive with other top product from Seaton and SVS

As before, the JL has a specific use case where it makes sense. It's easy to say there are better options but I'm still not aware of the vast array of subs that are the same size, fit and finish as an F113, with equal or better output, and substantially less cost than a realistic out the door price for the JL. The SVS sb can't match it's performance and the rythmik's fit and finish isn't close to the JL.

If I had a dedicated theater, I would go another direction.

Oh really, I didn't realize you could buy them that much below MSRP. For some reason up in Canada they don't discount nearly that much, at least when I looked into them a few years ago. Like I said, nice subs but I couldn't justify the price.
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post #21 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 08:05 PM
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These subs have no natural competitor. The build quality is second to none, the amp is awesome and not something you are ever going to see in a "price point" sub.
The specific output is close to being unmatched. They sound fantastic (although they cut em off around 20hz)

These are subs for people who aren't rushing to a different fast food restaurant because they have 4 oz more fries for the same price.
Sometimes a high quality product that's built like a tank is worth the premium whether or not the strict objective numbers agree.

Price and value are two different things, and is independent of your spending power.
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post #22 of 32 Old 04-25-2013, 10:44 PM
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These subs have no natural competitor. The build quality is second to none, the amp is awesome and not something you are ever going to see in a "price point" sub.
The specific output is close to being unmatched. They sound fantastic (although they cut em off around 20hz)

These are subs for people who aren't rushing to a different fast food restaurant because they have 4 oz more fries for the same price.
Sometimes a high quality product that's built like a tank is worth the premium whether or not the strict objective numbers agree.

Price and value are two different things, and is independent of your spending power.

I'm not disputing they are high quality subs but other then their compact sizes there's nothing this sub could do to out perform a sub like a Seaton SubMersive HP, including the amp and quality of the driver IMO.
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post #23 of 32 Old 04-26-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

My mistake - misread it as the PC Ultra.

The SB Ultra does not have the output of the F113. This was confirmed by Ed Mullen on one of the AVS SVS threads a year or so ago when that question was asked directly.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1227670/svs-sealed-subs/330#post_19099571

That is so 2010. That is the older SB13-plus, not the newer Ultra. I bet the newer one comes close...
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post #24 of 32 Old 04-26-2013, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I'm not disputing they are high quality subs but other then their compact sizes there's nothing this sub could do to out perform a sub like a Seaton SubMersive HP, including the amp and quality of the driver IMO.

Who said they would out perform a submersive? Why does it need to? I bet I could critique everyones car and point out how they could have got better objective performance for less money. What if they just like that the interior is built better? No good?

This is just another thread where the OP asks a specific question about a couple subs, and since they aren't in the "list" of approved AVS forum ID subs, he not only
doesn't get any advice, he gets beat over the head with recommendations he didn't ask for.
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post #25 of 32 Old 04-26-2013, 10:05 AM
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Totally true, sorry. I'm also curious to hear other people's responses as too how much of a discount they were able to get on JL subs.
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post #26 of 32 Old 04-26-2013, 10:12 AM
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We don't even know where he is and what he can get?

AFAIK the Submersive HP version is not used in many countries because 120V nominal operation only. The original is 115V/230V selectable, appropriate PowerCon power cord for destination address/country is included.

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Product-Listing-Availability-Status-and-Pricing-3364736

I believe JTR carries 240v amps on their subs such as the Captivator S and ship international as well.

http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/International-Shipping-3975975

As the original questions goes, the JL's can be had for a lot less than that here. smile.gif
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post #27 of 32 Old 04-26-2013, 10:27 AM
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That is so 2010. That is the older SB13-plus, not the newer Ultra. I bet the newer one comes close...

looking at the data on the HTS forums, the SB13U matches the f113 for output at the low end (almost identical from 25Hz down), but falls behind above 30 Hz (3db less at 30Hz, ~6db from 40Hz on up). Both appear to be of excellent build quality. They appear to have comparable THD and group delay, and both have nice tuning options. Essentially the same size once feet/grill/amp are considered in the SB13U dimensions. So for ~$1k more street, the F113 gets you significantly more headroom above 25Hz. So... I think there are situations when the f113 would make more sense (e.g. large room for mostly music) when you only want one sub. But, for smaller rooms (or when movies are a significant portion of listening) and when multiple subs are desired, the f113 seems a hard sell right now. Again, this is a data-driven assessment... personally preferences are VERY hard to quantify, yet are the most important!

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #28 of 32 Old 04-26-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

looking at the data on the HTS forums, the SB13U matches the f113 for output at the low end (almost identical from 25Hz down), but falls behind above 30 Hz (3db less at 30Hz, ~6db from 40Hz on up). Both appear to be of excellent build quality. They appear to have comparable THD and group delay, and both have nice tuning options. Essentially the same size once feet/grill/amp are considered in the SB13U dimensions. So for ~$1k more street, the F113 gets you significantly more headroom above 25Hz. So... I think there are situations when the f113 would make more sense (e.g. large room for mostly music) when you only want one sub. But, for smaller rooms (or when movies are a significant portion of listening) and when multiple subs are desired, the f113 seems a hard sell right now. Again, this is a data-driven assessment... personally preferences are VERY hard to quantify, yet are the most important!

Thanks for the info, Doug! I'm gonna have to go check it out.

As an owner of dual SB13's, one in each corner of my living room, I don't think my ears could possibly take much more headroom above 30 Hz. My SB13's get scary loud in my room, once cranked. Loud enough to make my '2 guard' haircut feel like its moving, and feel like I have "coke bugs" in my face. On top of it all, I didn't even have time to properly calibrate them either, so I'm assuming there is more to offer. wink.gif
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post #29 of 32 Old 04-28-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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HI. I am waiting to see the actual buying price of JL audio...
If you guy know kindly share.
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post #30 of 32 Old 04-28-2013, 06:43 PM
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HI. I am waiting to see the actual buying price of JL audio...
If you guy know kindly share.

Why don't you just start contacting dealers for prices? How do you plan to get it to.......wherever you are.

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