Subwoofer for music - under $200 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 75 Old 04-25-2013, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I've browsed these forums for years and have always found solid information here prior to my audio purchases.

I recently picked up the Airmotiv 4 monitors which are wonderfully detailed (for my small room), they are however missing the low-end.

So I'm looking for a sub, under $200:

Is there anything better than the Lava LSP08 for the money?

I'm using a PS Audio DLIII as DAC to my speakers via XLR, can I simply use RCA to the sub or should I split the cable?

Cheers in advance!

- Dan
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post #2 of 75 Old 04-25-2013, 09:21 PM
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Bic f12
Polk psw505

Best under $200
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post #3 of 75 Old 04-25-2013, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard an 8 does better in a smaller room, while a 12 and larger are reserved for bigger rooms?

I also read a story on here the other day, some guy replaced his cheap 10 with a pricier 8 and not only did he note better bass definition he said his wife in the other room could hardly here it compared to the 10... is there any truth in this?

In case of importance I should reiterate this is purely for music in a small room (my office).
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post #4 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 04:02 AM
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You can also check the Outlaw M8, if the price ($249) is ok for you.
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post #5 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 05:12 AM
 
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For strictly music in a small room, my recommendation would be to look to a sealed sub. As to 8", 10" or 18" inch, tight sound is a combination of room acoustics and the design of the subwoofer as opposed to the size of the driver.

Now the real question, budget aside, how loud do you really want to go and what kind of music are you listening to; elevator music to entertain office clients or hard rock with a Hip-Hop beat to rock out with visitors?

What ever you choose, my recommendation would be to spend a little more, get a whole lot more and pickup a Klipsch, RW-12d and be done with it.

A bit of philosophy; if your wife can't hear it in the other room, why would anyone want to buy it? Just saying.

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post #6 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the replies.

I listen to a mix of genres, from enjoying the delicate instruments in acoustic folk to Daft Punk and other electronic artists. I suppose when listening to acoustic I wouldn't want to hear it at all until the bass guitar hit a low string... I'm looking for very clean/accurate, not big and loud.

I would have to say I listen at moderate/low volumes, I am sat an arms length away from my near-fields.

I saw the Klipsch RW-12d on sale for $280 at newegg (no longer on sale) and thought it looked too big for my room. I take it from the above recommendations a 12" is almost always better no matter the application?

My room dimensions are: 11x12x8ft

As I say I am just looking for extension for my already wonderful Airmotiv 4s, not room-shaking movie bass.
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post #7 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

As I say I am just looking for extension for my already wonderful Airmotiv 4s, not room-shaking movie bass.

Then maybe a pair of something in a 10" size driver, connected by high level connections.
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post #8 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the Velodyne VX-11 for $169.77 any good?
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post #9 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

Is the Velodyne VX-11 for $169.77 any good?

My first response is no but that's because I'm looking at the sub as if they were for movie based sound tracks and not used as a music only based sub. If used only for music with no low octave content like Mozart or Bach based organ music, a pair of these subs will augment your speakers nicely. If banging out some heavy bass licks, there's not a lot of power in which to fill a room to the content of a closeted bass head.

The point of my above, they're a good little sub but your satisfaction with a pair of these is going be dependent on your expectations and if expecting too much out of too little, then you're going meet with at least a little disappointment. If just wanting to have the speakers augmented and not expecting low octaves or wanting to play it loud, a pair of these will make you smile. But, if spending this kind of money, I'd recommend going with a bigger driver and larger amplification capability, a Klipsch RW-12D which can be had on sale at Newegg for a delivered price of $300.00 which would be less then a pair of Velodyne, VX-11's.

Again, it all will depend on how you want to connect the subwoofer/subwoofers to your AVR and if the AVR has bass management. If no bass management and if connecting via high level inputs, I'd go with the Velodyne, VX-11's.

My concern with the recommendation, you're going want more, get less and not be happy with your choice.
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post #10 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

My first response is no but that's because I'm looking at the sub as if they were for movie based sound tracks and not used as a music only based sub. If used only for music with no low octave content like Mozart or Bach based organ music, a pair of these subs will augment your speakers nicely. If banging out some heavy bass licks, there's not a lot of power in which to fill a room to the content of a closeted bass head.

Again, it all will depend on how you want to connect the subwoofer/subwoofers to your AVR and if the AVR has bass management. If no bass management and if connecting via high level inputs, I'd go with the Velodyne, VX-11's.

I have my airmotiv 4 plugged into my DAC via XLR, I was planning on connecting the sub via RCA... Apart from EQ on the computer (which I don't like using) I have no bass control, that is save for what is directly on the sub like volume etc.

You mentioned a sealed sub for music, can you suggest one around my price point?
I just wonder, is it a case of any 10" sub will do they're all pretty much the same at this price point.
Or are some really better for music and vice-versa?

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post #11 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 04:32 PM
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I would think the Lava would do just fine. But I have to go with the recommendation of the Outlaw. Designed
by Dr. Hsu, it's a good sub, and would do fine in a small (office) environment. Maybe give it a try, 30 trial
period. Maybe $50 bucks more (plus shipping) but I think worth it.

vardo
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post #12 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 05:21 PM
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Another sub I would recommend would be a Mirage OMNI S8.
I only recommend it because I have heard it with music, and it's sound was great (IMO).


http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Omni-S8-8-Inch-High-Performance-Subwoofer/dp/B000F97FRM

review.....http://hometheaterreview.com/mirage-omni-s8-powered-subwoofer-reviewed/

Although not sealed (you would have a hard time finding a sealed 8" or 10" in the price range you're
looking in), I don't think you can go wrong with it. Also find it cheaper than the advertised price at Amazon.

vardo
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post #13 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 05:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

I have my airmotiv 4 plugged into my DAC via XLR, I was planning on connecting the sub via RCA... Apart from EQ on the computer (which I don't like using) I have no bass control, that is save for what is directly on the sub like volume etc.

Then going with a RCA hookup should work just fine as that would be like a sub-out on an AVR.

If going with a single subwoofer, vardo's recommendation will serve your needs fine but it is recommended to set the Low Pass Filter (LPF) to <80Hz to prevent any localization issues for in using only one sub, and you set the sub LPF >80Hz, your ears will be able to tell where the sound is coming from (localization) and it will mess up the subwoofer experience.

You'll have to forgive me but I'm not experienced with smaller subs. I see you limiting yourself based on size/budget constraints. Nothing wrong with doing that, it's just the constraints limit recommendations. Based on your posted needs, pretty much, anything within your budget will help your situation.

Two subs being better than one.

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post #14 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 11:00 PM
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Small sub go with the S8

I still recommed the bic or polk both under $200 medium size, best you can buy under $200.
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post #15 of 75 Old 04-26-2013, 11:02 PM
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Or...take your $200 save it, wait a month or two or three and buy a b stock SVS sealed 10" subwoofer for $450 shipped biggrin.gif

Tight clean bass perfect for your room!
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post #16 of 75 Old 04-27-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
My room dimensions are: 11x12x8ft

As I say I am just looking for extension for my already wonderful Airmotiv 4s, not room-shaking movie bass.
The Polk PSW10 is not a good sub for room-shaking bass, but it is a good sub for clean bass in a moderately-sized room at moderate volumes. It's relatively compact and, when on sale, it can be had for $80 to $100.

Two of them in your space should work very nicely. :-)
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post #17 of 75 Old 04-27-2013, 11:26 AM
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I saw your post on Head-Fi about the Airmotivs, Graphicism. Seems like you are really enjoying them smile.gif

The JBL SUB150P has been getting some good feedback on Newegg, and it's $179 for this weekend. I'd go for it over the Lava. This review of the SUB150P makes it look very promising: http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2011-05_to_12/2011-11/jbl_sub150p_subwoofer_review_lores.pdf

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post #18 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the wonderful information and suggestions.

@vardo
I do like the look of the Lava LSP10 shipped for $210. The Outlaw M8 is closer to $290 shipped, is this recommended because it's down firing? For comparison the M8 is the same price as the 12" Klipsch RW-12d.

The Mirage OMNI S8 looks great and I've read a few favorable reviews, priced around $280 on Amazon.

@BeeMan458 & @deepat04
$200 was just my initial ball park, I would spend more if justified for my small speakers and room. The SVS SB-1000 for $500 seems like the sub to have for music, maybe I'll splurge...

@eljaycanuck
I was looking at the PSW10 before I posted here, attractive price and reviews but then when you delve in a little deeper you read the odd mono-tone bass post or flabby and inaccurate and then it puts you off.

@cel4145
I temporarily leave head-fi for some outside perspective and what do you know... haha, I can see this going much the same way too... initial post for a budget item and before you know it you own half the store.

Thank you also for the JBL suggestion, I've looked into that sub and it seems decent at $180 but there are a few issues with amps burning out? The design is also a little off-putting, ideally a none stand out black cube would be ideal.

I am still on the fence... should I stick to a $200 sub only to get upgraditis in a few months, or wait a month and buy the SVS SB-1000 for $500.
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post #19 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 12:12 PM
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The reported amp issues have been with the JBL ES line. I don't think that people have talked about amp problems with the SUB150, but I could be wrong.

One advantage of that SB-1000 is that it has a line level pass through with an 80hz high pass filter. So you'd have the option of running the Airmotivs from the SB-1000 and setting a higher crossover than their low frequency roll off.

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post #20 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The reported amp issues have been with the JBL ES line. I don't think that people have talked about amp problems with the SUB150, but I could be wrong.

One advantage of that SB-1000 is that it has a line level pass through with an 80hz high pass filter. So you'd have the option of running the Airmotivs from the SB-1000 and setting a higher crossover than their low frequency roll off.

Yes it was the ES line where I first read that, in fact the JBL ES250PBK which is similar to the RW-12d is being sold off at $200. While the SUB150P may not share these problems it makes me think twice before going JBL.

Yeah I am not too up on the crossover settings but I suppose the more options the better.

Adding another sub to the mix this Acoustic Audio HDSUB10 got some good reviews.
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post #21 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 04:33 PM
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Graphicism,

The reason I like the Outlaw M8 is because it was designed by Dr, HSU.....and I'm biased because I've owned 5 HSU subs,
and they were all very musical, and good for home theater also. Amazon has an M8 for $250.00 with free shipping.
The rated specs are 29 to 250hz. Very similar to to an HSU STF-1. It's down firing, but that makes no difference with
subs,,,,they can be front firing, side firing, etc...bass below 80hz is non directional. Bass radiates like a ripple in a pond,
no matter which way the driver is firing....Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B005SRS7XC/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

The Klipsch RW-12D is a great sub for the money, but I think it is geared more toward home theater (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
It's enclosure is mighty big, which could be a drawback in your case. But at $270/$300 it's a fantastic deal. Graphicism, you might think
about the future and a home theater, and the Klipsch is one great deal for a home theater....I just can't see this as being for an office. !! x 12 x 8 is a very
nice size office space, so perhaps the Klipsch would fit in. I've heard the Klipsch, and it sure can put out a lot of clean, deep base.

Mirage S8 is a "very musical" sub....(think refined). That's why I recommended it.

In the end, all of these subs have a 30 day trial period....so make a decision, and if you're unhappy, simply return it.
And I also recommended the Lava, only because I think Lava subs are underrated in general,

Good luck smile.gif

vardo

Edit: the Outlaw is $32.00 shipping
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post #22 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 06:36 PM
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i like the downfiring sub, seems to help slightly with localization in a nearfield enviroment and less harmonics are herd because the carpet absorbs them.
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post #23 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

The Polk PSW10 is not a good sub for room-shaking bass, but it is a good sub for clean bass in a moderately-sized room at moderate volumes. It's relatively compact and, when on sale, it can be had for $80 to $100.

Two of them in your space should work very nicely. :-)

I use the psw10's alot for our T. tunes jukeboxes...cheap reliable bass. not alot of deep extension but its not needed for thier purpose. i tested one in my living room and for 100.00 it was decent for music.
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post #24 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post


I am still on the fence... should I stick to a $200 sub only to get upgraditis in a few months, or wait a month and buy the SVS SB-1000 for $500.

What makes you think it will end there? smile.gif

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post #25 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What makes you think it will end there? smile.gif
lol so true!!
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post #26 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

Thank you for the replies.

I listen to a mix of genres, from enjoying the delicate instruments in acoustic folk to Daft Punk and other electronic artists. I suppose when listening to acoustic I wouldn't want to hear it at all until the bass guitar hit a low string... I'm looking for very clean/accurate, not big and loud.

I would have to say I listen at moderate/low volumes, I am sat an arms length away from my near-fields.

I saw the Klipsch RW-12d on sale for $280 at newegg (no longer on sale) and thought it looked too big for my room. I take it from the above recommendations a 12" is almost always better no matter the application?

My room dimensions are: 11x12x8ft


As I say I am just looking for extension for my already wonderful Airmotiv 4s, not room-shaking movie bass.
I have had my Klipsch RW-12d for about a month now. Before I moved it to the living room, I tested in my computer room, the same size you quoted above. It wasn't really hooked to any high end stuff, just an old 5.1 AVR and couple of low end book shelf speakers I upgrade with better parts for about $60 each. I listened to jazz and acousical some organ music to test the bass, about an arm's length away, and at moderate volume, except for some testing I did. The test videos off Youtube would just rattle your teeth, and if the test tones were accurate, I got MUCH lower bass extension that I would have expected, down to about 18 I think. That was in a range frankly I could care less about when listening to music, but they were there.

I found the Klipsch really didn't really sound all that great, It excelled in the sub tests nicely I found on Youtube, but when it came to music, I thought the sub really didn't get a chance to "breathe" if that makes any sense. The room was just too small and I sat too close for it to be a "wow" experience.

I should qualify the above observations that I sat virtually right on top of the sub, and my room set up is not very good for music. I was just testing and listening to music off of my computer. I didn't move the sub around to find a better position further away from me, but I am guessing if I did, it would have sounded better.

After I moved the RW-12d to a larger room I thought it blended with the speakers better and produced a more enjoyable sound.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #27 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

Adding another sub to the mix this Acoustic Audio HDSUB10 got some good reviews.

Acoustic Audio subs have quite a cult following over at blu-ray forum, but for some reason, they have never been popular over here.

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post #28 of 75 Old 04-29-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

I thought the sub really didn't get a chance to "breathe" if that makes any sense. The room was just too small and I sat too close for it to be a "wow" experience.

After I moved the RW-12d to a larger room I thought it blended with the speakers better and produced a more enjoyable sound.

Any sub can become localizable if you are practically sitting on top of it, making it sound less blended with the speakers. And room acoustics and placements are such big issues in sub response, more likely that the RW-12d placement in your other room just worked out better in terms of the frequency response that was pleasing to you. Could just as easily have happened the other way.

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post #29 of 75 Old 04-30-2013, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Any sub can become localizable if you are practically sitting on top of it, making it sound less blended with the speakers.
My sub is a foot behind me, my mains twelve feet in front of me. I can't localize my sub. I could if I played it too loud, but I don't.
It's common for users to have their subs too loud for 'wow factor', and when they do what can happen is a type of precedence effect (google it). The directional cues that should be coming from the mains are overshadowed by the volume of the sub.
In most cases if you can tell you have a sub it's too loud. Subs should be most obvious by their absence, not their presence.

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #30 of 75 Old 05-01-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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@vardo
I understand now, so the M8 comes from a reputable brand. I did read that down firing/front firing do make a difference depending on how close you place the sub. Also front ports equal more volume but less accuracy, again I don't know how true that is. In this thread wvu80 said in regards to the RW-12D it was overbearing in a small room with no room to breath. I've read similar here and elsewhere, I wonder if that goes for all 12s or just the Klipsch. I do like the look of the S8 which sold for $169 once upon a time, I just can't find it anywhere near that.

@basshead81
Thing is while the psw10 may make enough sound to fill my room I want quality bass over quantity. From reviews and (dare I say) price I don't think it's what I'm looking for.

@ovinthehd
True, true, I'm sure it won't! So let me rephrase, do I start with a $200 sub or speed ahead a couple of levels with a $500 sub.

@wvu80
Thank you, I do have my reservations over the Klipsch RW-12d and other 12" subs.


EDIT: I am very interested in the NXG Technology NX-BAS-500 for $280
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