Rythmik E15 vs SVS SB13 Ultra - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 201 Old 04-30-2014, 07:51 PM
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[duplicate post.... pls ignore]
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post #182 of 201 Old 04-30-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


Before I reveal which of these subwoofers I kept I wanted to reiterate that there is no winner here, for if there was that means there's also a loser. That's not the case at all because the SVS SB13 Ultra and Rythmik E15HP are both exceptional subwoofers,

Rythmik E15HP in 14Hz/Mid/No Rumble Filter/No PEQ tune




SVS SB13 Ultra - all options disabled




NOTE: the Spectrographs clearly demonstrate why the bass is so clean from both of these. All they do is make a sound and stop on a dime. Very impressive showing.

Thanks Jim for the very very good review, very objective and from neutral point of view and picking up the strengths of the subs in detail.

Can u help to share if the measurements are done with mic at the main listening position? Thanks. wink.gif
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post #183 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenz View Post

Thanks Jim for the very very good review, very objective and from neutral point of view and picking up the strengths of the subs in detail.

Can u help to share if the measurements are done with mic at the main listening position? Thanks. wink.gif

You're welcome - I'm glad you found some value with my analysis.

The measurements are all close mic. Since room influences will be different for everyone I try and remove those from the equation.

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post #184 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 02:49 PM
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I deleted my first reply. I tinkered with the UMIK-1 and my laptop mic input settings and was able to get a more accurate SPL reading in REW. I believe this reading is more accurate. I took this reading my main listening position.

This is my first time using REW so I'm open to feedback on the graph settings and suggestions on how to better configure the E15. I'm thinking I should engaged the PEQ and try to address the null in the 50 Hz region. Any suggestions on the PEQ settings (bandwidth, gain, etc.)...even just a starting point? If not I'l just do some trial and error.



Based on this graph I think I'm running my subs too hot.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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post #185 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post

I deleted my first reply. I tinkered with the UMIK-1 and my laptop mic input settings and was able to get a more accurate SPL reading in REW. I believe this reading is more accurate. I took this reading my main listening position.

This is my first time using REW so I'm open to feedback on the graph settings and suggestions on how to better configure the E15. I'm thinking I should engaged the PEQ and try to address the null in the 50 Hz region. Any suggestions on the PEQ settings (bandwidth, gain, etc.)...even just a starting point? If not I'l just do some trial and error.



Based on this graph I think I'm running my subs too hot.


Your scales look correct/standard.  I would not do 1/6th smoothing for a sub graph though, it just masks issues.  1/12th is ok imo, makes it readable but does not hide things as much.  Is this with both subs running?  Have you experimented with changing phase on the subs or trying any other placement optoins?


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

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post #186 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 05:54 PM
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Is this a 75db measurement? Is audyssey on or off? Did you take measurements with both Audyssey on and off. I would look at the graph with no smoothing or use 1/12 if you must.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post

I deleted my first reply. I tinkered with the UMIK-1 and my laptop mic input settings and was able to get a more accurate SPL reading in REW. I believe this reading is more accurate. I took this reading my main listening position.

This is my first time using REW so I'm open to feedback on the graph settings and suggestions on how to better configure the E15. I'm thinking I should engaged the PEQ and try to address the null in the 50 Hz region. Any suggestions on the PEQ settings (bandwidth, gain, etc.)...even just a starting point? If not I'l just do some trial and error.



Based on this graph I think I'm running my subs too hot.


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post #187 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 06:02 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. I reran REW a few times and have concluded that I still need to tinker with it as the setting are off. I'll spare you the details but I'm having issues calibrating the mic (tried with two laptops...each produced weird results).

To clarify, the graph above is with Audyssey on, I believe I had dynamic volume/eq engaged (not on purpose, I just forgot the turn it off), and it's just the E15HP.

I have to pack for a camping trip but if I make good progress I'll try running REW again tonight on a third laptop.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
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post #188 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 06:13 PM
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The mic is calibrated, and you should have been provided with a calibration file for your mic from miniDSP.  When you start REW with the mic plugged in, it should prompt you for the calibration file.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #189 of 201 Old 05-01-2014, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

The mic is calibrated, and you should have been provided with a calibration file for your mic from miniDSP.  When you start REW with the mic plugged in, it should prompt you for the calibration file.

I purchased the UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum, which came with 6 calibrated profiles. My issue is twofold:

1) one of my laptops won't recognize the UMIK-1 as a "UMIK-1". Instead it recognizes it as a "USB Microphone". After a bunch of research I figured out it shouldn't be a problem and that I just need to load the calibrated file under the mic preference setting. The other issue; however, is that I can't get the SPL volume right on this laptop. I have to raise the master volume to excruciating levels (+10) just to hit 70ish on the SPL reading. I checked and I have the mic input volume set to max so I'm not sure what's going on. Other than a low SPL reading, I'm not sure if there is any other adverse side affects???

2) my other laptop recognizes the UMIK-1, but on this laptop it appears the SPL reading is too high. It idles at about 45 dBs with just background noise. The other problem is that when I connect the laptop to my AVR it produces a loud feedback sound from my subs, which must be throwing off the reading.

So...I'm going to try a third laptop maybe tonight. If that fails I have a fourth that I could try. I'm sure I'll get there eventually.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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post #190 of 201 Old 05-02-2014, 05:48 AM
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This might not be relevant, but just in case... what is the format quality setting for the mic? Right-click the speaker icon in your task bar and you'll be able to access recording and playback devices. Choosing the former will give you a list of devices Windows sees, and if the mic is plugged in it should be one of them. Click on the device and hit the Properties button, that should take you to a dialog box with an Advanced tab. In their is where you'll find the quality setting for the mic. Perhaps that needs to be changed in order to tame the volume issue.

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post #191 of 201 Old 05-02-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

This might not be relevant, but just in case... what is the format quality setting for the mic? Right-click the speaker icon in your task bar and you'll be able to access recording and playback devices. Choosing the former will give you a list of devices Windows sees, and if the mic is plugged in it should be one of them. Click on the device and hit the Properties button, that should take you to a dialog box with an Advanced tab. In their is where you'll find the quality setting for the mic. Perhaps that needs to be changed in order to tame the volume issue.

Thanks for this, Jim! It looks like the quality is locked on one setting: "2 channel, 24 bit, 4800 Hz (Studio Quality)". While it's a moot point for me, is it generally a good idea to select the highest quality option?

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
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post #192 of 201 Old 05-02-2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post

Thanks for this, Jim! It looks like the quality is locked on one setting: "2 channel, 24 bit, 4800 Hz (Studio Quality)". While it's a moot point for me, is it generally a good idea to select the highest quality option?

The only choice is 24 bit? I've found many devices where 16 bit was the only option, but I'm not sure I've ever seen just 24. Either way... depending upon the device I'll choose 41,000 or 48,000 at 16 bits. Those are the settings I have the least compatibility issues with.

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post #193 of 201 Old 05-02-2014, 12:24 PM
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Ok here's another attempt. No smoothing applied.

Red line = E15HP and Towers

Blue line = Empire and Towers

Green line = Both subs and Towers



As you can see I have a huge null with the E15 in the 55 Hz region. I'm going to measure the E15HP where my Empire is today for a more accurate A/B test.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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post #194 of 201 Old 05-02-2014, 01:03 PM
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It seems like both subs are cancelling each other from 15-27hz. I had a similar problem with mine and I used the MiniDSP to cancel one of them in a small frequency range (in your case it will be the empire between 15-27). This can happen because Audyssey does not equalize the subs individually. Your other option is to look for different places. Your null at 55 seems to be covered well by your Empire.
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Originally Posted by Jahjd2000 View Post

Ok here's another attempt. No smoothing applied.

Red line = E15HP and Towers

Blue line = Empire and Towers

Green line = Both subs and Towers



As you can see I have a huge null with the E15 in the 55 Hz region. I'm going to measure the E15HP where my Empire is today for a more accurate A/B test.


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post #195 of 201 Old 05-02-2014, 01:17 PM
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Yeah I noticed that they were canceling each other out in the lower range, which is probably why I preferred to play one sub or the other but not both. I have two more places I can try the E15HP--I'll see what the graphs tell me.

It also confirms what I was hearing in terms of the E15HP having a better low end and, and due to the E15's null in the 50 Hz range, the Empire performing better in upper region.

REW is fun smile.gif

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
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post #196 of 201 Old 05-20-2014, 04:38 PM
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I think my Empire got upset at me because today it bit the dust. Heard a slight pop sound and now it won't power up (will check the fuse). Good timing I suppose.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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post #197 of 201 Old 05-20-2014, 04:54 PM
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Your graph will rock when your matching E15HP arrives next week or so :D.  I would bet the different roll off is causing phases issues/cancellation down low.  Matching another E15 should solve that.

 

Also, try a 45-105 dB scale.  Its an unofficial standard and will give you 5 dB increment as well.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #198 of 201 Old 05-20-2014, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Your graph will rock when your matching E15HP arrives next week or so biggrin.gif .  I would bet the different roll off is causing phases issues/cancellation down low.  Matching another E15 should solve that.

Also, try a 45-105 dB scale.  Its an unofficial standard and will give you 5 dB increment as well.

Yeah man, I think it's a sign that I need to hurry up and order another E15.

And something is wrong with my UMIK. The SPL reading is about 20 dBs too low (which is why the scale of my graph is off). Apparently other people have had this issue with the umik. I think the graphs are accurate just ~20 dBs too low. I'm debating if I should keep it or return it for another.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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post #199 of 201 Old 05-22-2014, 07:14 PM
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I think I might swing for the fences. Got a promo at work so I'm thinking...maybe I order two more E15s to celebrate. Two upfront and then one near field next to my sofa should do it.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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post #200 of 201 Old 05-22-2014, 07:17 PM
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Congrats!  Do it!


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #201 of 201 Old 05-22-2014, 07:19 PM
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I heard these are pretty efficient amps. Wondering if I might need to upgrade my electrical...cross that bridge when I get there:)

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
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