Rythmik E15 vs SVS SB13 Ultra - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 228 Old 06-09-2015, 06:31 AM
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Clean bass does not seem to sound as loud.
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post #212 of 228 Old 06-09-2015, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
Thanks for the suggestions. I may end up returning the SB13U. I still have the feeling that "I wish I would't have to choose". The wife definitely prefers the E15HP. It makes me wonder if there is a sub that has both the tight and more musical sound of the Rythmik and the more satisfying gut hitting sound of the SVS. Is it a classic argument in subwoofer domain? SQ vs SPL. Again, not saying SVS does not have good SQ. Tough choice.
On the Rythmik, what do you have the LPF, Rumble Filter, Frequency and Damping switches set for?

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post #213 of 228 Old 06-09-2015, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
It makes me wonder if there is a sub that has both the tight and more musical sound of the Rythmik and the more satisfying gut hitting sound of the SVS. Is it a classic argument in subwoofer domain? SQ vs SPL. .
I would think the FV15hp would be that.
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post #214 of 228 Old 06-10-2015, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
On the Rythmik, what do you have the LPF, Rumble Filter, Frequency and Damping switches set for?
Using the setting provided by Enrico/Brian

Crossover 50
LPF 50Hz/24
Rumble on
Frequency 14
Damping HI
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post #215 of 228 Old 06-10-2015, 05:30 PM
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Why crossover at 50hz? What avr and speakers do you run, I forgot? Have you tried low dampening? It gives full body sound per Brian.
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post #216 of 228 Old 06-10-2015, 05:49 PM
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Why crossover at 50hz? What avr and speakers do you run, I forgot? Have you tried low dampening? It gives full body sound per Brian.
This is a music only 2 ch sound system, there is no AVR in this system. He is running a pair of Magnepan 1.7s with HK 665 Integrated, Mapletree Pre amp and Parasound HCA 3500 amp. 50Hz/24 with crossover at 50Hz is the best configuration for Magnepan 1.7s. Some customers do prefer to crossover at 80Hz but closer to the natural roll off which is around 45Hz is better for perfect integration. Also delay around 11 o'clock is recommended for Magnepan speakers.
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post #217 of 228 Old 06-11-2015, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
This is a music only 2 ch sound system, there is no AVR in this system. He is running a pair of Magnepan 1.7s with HK 665 Integrated, Mapletree Pre amp and Parasound HCA 3500 amp. 50Hz/24 with crossover at 50Hz is the best configuration for Magnepan 1.7s. Some customers do prefer to crossover at 80Hz but closer to the natural roll off which is around 45Hz is better for perfect integration. Also delay around 11 o'clock is recommended for Magnepan speakers.

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Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
Using the setting provided by Enrico/Brian

Crossover 50
LPF 50Hz/24
Rumble on
Frequency 14
Damping HI

Brian obviously knows his subwoofers far better than I ever will, but to me that config does not look like an apples-to-apples comparison with the SVS. If you want more mid-bass presence, which it sounds like you do, then you'll need to change at least the Damping to Mid (TBH, I think the 4th order slope is a bit much as well). From a technical perspective that might not be the ideal configuration, but it could prove to be the most pleasing. Ultimately it has to sound right for you, and if that requires a slight deviation it's definitely worth considering. Remember, those adjustments are there to tailor the sound for your particular wants/needs. Don't be afraid to use them accordingly.

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post #218 of 228 Old 06-11-2015, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Brian obviously knows his subwoofers far better than I ever will, but to me that config does not look like an apples-to-apples comparison with the SVS. If you want more mid-bass presence, which it sounds like you do, then you'll need to change at least the Damping to Mid (TBH, I think the 4th order slope is a bit much as well). From a technical perspective that might not be the ideal configuration, but it could prove to be the most pleasing. Ultimately it has to sound right for you, and if that requires a slight deviation it's definitely worth considering. Remember, those adjustments are there to tailor the sound for your particular wants/needs. Don't be afraid to use them accordingly.
+1. Damping switch is there to try it. Apart from technical damping is more about taste and listening preferences. I do like Hi damping and that's why I do recommend it but definitely everyone have to try Hi, Mid and Low then chose the one you like better.

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post #219 of 228 Old 06-11-2015, 05:10 PM
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I've tried the hi, mid, and low damping. It makes some difference but not a significant one.

As for me possibly having auditory preference for mid bass, I am not sure. I think there was more sound level below 25hz(I would guess) with sb 13u. I have another pair of tower speakers with 8 inch woofers that go about as low as 32-35hz, and I can guess that sb13u went well below 25 hz at significant higher SPL than the E15HP. Just "more" of that lower bass than the rythmik. It "seemed" to dig deeper.

Honestly, I am not sure if I have trained ears that can discern low vs mid or good vs bad bass. I sure do enjoy the accuracy of the E15HP.

I am starting to think that 2 E15 may be the way to go. If I had no room for a second sub, I would have kept the sb13u. I don't recall exactly but some other forum discussed about dual rythmik E15/F15 vs single svs sb13u for sheer output and also for those with preference to music.
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post #220 of 228 Old 06-12-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I would return one and add the exact one to the one you keep.

+1. Totally different design, driver, enclosure, amp, so the wattage comparison is pointless. A 600W sub can have more output than a 1000W sub.
That and the fact that the hypex amp Brian uses is underrated. It is actually more like 1000 watts when using the same rating protocol as other manufacturers.

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post #221 of 228 Old 06-25-2015, 07:54 PM
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Update on Rythmik E15HP vs SVS SB13U.

I've had the Rythmik E15HP now for about 3 weeks. The sound has really opened up, but it's not up to the level of SB13B however. There was a smidge of grainy or even boomy sounds on a few songs I tried which was surprising. I couldn't figure out the reason. Still doing the subcrawl and adjusting phase alignment. Hopefully it's an issue not related to the E15. Possibly, it's the source.

I, too, had very difficult time deciding between the two subs. My conclusion is that the two subs present very different sounds. I believe it's a matter of personal taste. The servo technology in the Rythmik may have some merit in the end. It's almost as if the the large 15 inch woofer is being held back from going all out and playing loud, and the end result is the tight sound at the expense of decreased SPL level. The SB13U with its 13 inch woofer is truly amazing with incredibly deep bass. The gorgeous cabinet finish is also a huge plus, not that Rythmik's is not. I really wished I had kept both, and maybe I will order the SB13U again in future and keep it for good.

Thank you for your opinions again everyone.
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Last edited by airysounds; 06-25-2015 at 08:06 PM.
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post #222 of 228 Old 06-25-2015, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
Update on Rythmik E15HP vs SVS SB13U.

I've had the Rythmik E15HP now for about 3 weeks. The sound has really opened up, but it's not up to the level of SB13B however. There was a smidge of grainy or even boomy sounds on a few songs I tried which was surprising. I couldn't figure out the reason. Still doing the subcrawl and adjusting phase alignment. Hopefully it's an issue not related to the E15. Possibly, it's the source.

I, too, had very difficult time deciding between the two subs. My conclusion is that the two subs present very different sounds. I believe it's a matter of personal taste. The servo technology in the Rythmik may have some merit in the end. It's almost as if the the large 15 inch woofer is being held back from going all out and playing loud, and the end result is the tight sound at the expense of decreased SPL level. The SB13U with its 13 inch woofer is truly amazing with incredibly deep bass. The gorgeous cabinet finish is also a huge plus, not that Rythmik's is not. I really wished I had kept both, and maybe I will order the SB13U again in future and keep it for good.

Thank you for your opinions again everyone.
And thank you for giving us your thoughts on these two fine subs. Sadly (or not), I didn’t get a chance to audition the E15HP (6 month backlog when I was buying). From your description it seems the E15HP is a well-controlled sub, perhaps slightly on the polite side, while the SB13 can growl and pounce. A matter of taste, I think. Matter-of-fact, the longer I’ve owned the SB13-Ultra (over 2 years now), the more amazed I am with its capability with music. It has made several highly thought of subs I’ve auditioned and had in my home, tuck tail and hide .
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post #223 of 228 Old 09-02-2015, 07:21 PM
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airysounds---Though you feel the SB13 has more output below 25Hz than the E15HP, the opposite is actually the case; the SB13 rolls off quite a bit more rapidly than does the E15HP (look at the graph for proof). 25Hz is not actually heard (the open bottom E string of a 4-string electric bass produces a 42Hz tone), it is felt. What you may be hearing more of with the SVS is actually second harmonic distortion, which will make low frequencies sound "fuller", more "hearable". For the sound you seem to desire, the Rythmik ported 15" sub (FV15HP) is the answer. More output than the E15HP above tuning, with a fuller, slightly thicker quality. Less lean, less clean, more pronounced and heard separately from the main speakers.

In regards to amplifier power, your comments reveal that there is something you're neglecting to take into account: Driver sensitivity/efficiency. The fact that the SB13 has a 1000W amp while the E13HP has a 600W one does NOT necessarily mean the SB13 will play louder than the E13HP, and here's why: How loud a driver will play is dependent upon (simplified for the sake of clarity) not just the amplifier power, but also the sensitivity/efficiency of the driver. A 1000W amp will produce 3dB more SPL at a given frequency from a given driver than will a 500W amp. However, the SB13 and the E15HP do NOT have the same driver. We need to know the sensitivity/efficiency of the two drivers before we can declare anything about the power advantage of the SB13. If you hook up an 85dB sensitive woofer to a 1000W amp, that combination will produce 3dB more SPL than will a 500W amp connected to the same woofer. If you hook up an 82dB sensitivity woofer (3dB less sensitive) to the 1000W amp (3dB more powerful than the 500W amp), it will produce the same SPL as the 85 dB woofer connected to the 500W amp. The 3dB advantage of the 1000W amp and the 3dB "penalty" of the 82dB woofer equal each other, and cancel out (remember your High School Algebra?!); the two combinations---1000W amp + 82dB woofer vs. 500W amp + 85dB woofer---produce the same SPL.

Does that make clear why the simple fact that the SB13 has a 1000W amp NOT tell us whether it will therefore play louder than will the E13HP with it's 600W amp? We don't know the sensitivity/efficiency of the woofer in each sub! What if the woofer in the E13HP is 3dB more sensitive/efficient than the woofer in the SB13? Well, the E13HP would then actually play louder than the SB13 (the 1000W SB13 amp being less than 3dB more powerful than the 600W E13)! Power alone tells you NOTHING about how loud a driver will play---you MUST know it's sensitivity/efficiency. MUST!
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post #224 of 228 Old 11-08-2015, 09:59 PM
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It's been a few months. I think it's time for an update. BTW, BDP24 hit it right on the nail regarding the bass frequency that I am hearing from SB13U.

I had sent the SB13U back to SVS but I just could not shake off the urge to hear it again. Against the recommendation of getting another Rythmik E15, I ordered the SB13U again and I am now back to comparing the two subs. It's just fantastic to hear two very different type of bass. I've been busy experimenting with different gears for the subs. Overall, my magnepan incorporates better with the Rythmik. The other speakers, Jeff Bagby's Continuums, sound sweeter with the SVS. I am afraid this match/play will keep me busy for a while before I start thinking about other gears.
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post #225 of 228 Old 11-09-2015, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
I've tried the hi, mid, and low damping. It makes some difference but not a significant one.

As for me possibly having auditory preference for mid bass, I am not sure. I think there was more sound level below 25hz(I would guess) with sb 13u. I have another pair of tower speakers with 8 inch woofers that go about as low as 32-35hz, and I can guess that sb13u went well below 25 hz at significant higher SPL than the E15HP. Just "more" of that lower bass than the rythmik. It "seemed" to dig deeper.

Honestly, I am not sure if I have trained ears that can discern low vs mid or good vs bad bass. I sure do enjoy the accuracy of the E15HP.

I am starting to think that 2 E15 may be the way to go. If I had no room for a second sub, I would have kept the sb13u. I don't recall exactly but some other forum discussed about dual rythmik E15/F15 vs single svs sb13u for sheer output and also for those with preference to music.
Go with 2 E15HPs and u wont go wrong as having 2 subs is quite a difference HT experience in your room. It may not be an apple to apple comparison for dual E15 vs single SB13U

Just curious, of the 2 subs, which sub u feel gave u a more thump-in-the-chest midbass?
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post #226 of 228 Old 11-09-2015, 11:43 AM
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sevenz.

To me, there is much more of the thump in the chest/midbass with SB13U. I use these subs for music strictly. I got a pair of tower speakers next to my TV that go about 32Hz, and I don't feel that I need super low bass under 30Hz for watching movies(for now).
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post #227 of 228 Old 11-09-2015, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
sevenz.

To me, there is much more of the thump in the chest/midbass with SB13U. I use these subs for music strictly. I got a pair of tower speakers next to my TV that go about 32Hz, and I don't feel that I need super low bass under 30Hz for watching movies(for now).
Awesome thanks for sharing. maybe i should get my hands on a used SB13U one day to experience its sound signature.... ha...
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post #228 of 228 Old 11-14-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by airysounds View Post
sevenz.

To me, there is much more of the thump in the chest/midbass with SB13U. I use these subs for music strictly. I got a pair of tower speakers next to my TV that go about 32Hz, and I don't feel that I need super low bass under 30Hz for watching movies(for now).

If E15 is used for music only, one can turn the rumble filter off. That will give you a more open sound. Turning on rumble filter is recommended when one wants to play really loud.
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