Rythmik E15 vs SVS SB13 Ultra - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 201 Old 05-06-2013, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Interested in opinions or comparisons between the E15HP and SB13 Ultra... ears-on even better. Both are VERY similar in size (once feet, amp and grill are considered), and after shipping and high-gloss finish, not too, too far apart in price ($1311 vs $1599)... E15HP high gloss currently on sale ($1199 in cart), so very tempted. Will be in a room that eventually will beg for 2nd sub (~4500 cuft), but will be starting with one and would like it to be no larger than either of these. I found one thread comparing and it was stated they were in a 'different league' or something like that... I find that hard to believe given Rythmik's rep for value and similar pricing. Will be for mixed use 50/50 music/HT.

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #2 of 201 Old 05-06-2013, 10:06 PM
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SB13 Ultra without a doubt
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post #3 of 201 Old 05-06-2013, 10:15 PM
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SB13 Ultra without a doubt

Based on what exactly?

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post #5 of 201 Old 05-06-2013, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Based on what exactly?

While there is no perfect subwoofer for every application, we often see claims that one subwoofer is in a different class than another direct competitor. I do appreciate when people offer their opinions, but have found that when comparing two quality subs, it usually comes down to preference and suitability to individual constraints (fit&finish, size, mains integration, room size). It is of note when someone who has obviously tested multiple high-quality subs prefaces any comparison with such disclaimers... for this reason, I'm looking for Rythmik owners that have tried the SB13-Ultra and went with a Rythmik. I've read the reasoning for selecting the SB13U over the F15HP and E15 based on experience with both, but have not heard the other way around... lots of testimonials to the quality of the F15HP/E15 and sound logic for why it might make a better choice in a given situation, but few have actually heard both subs, and none that I'm aware of have selected the Rythmiks when they've listened to both in their homes (of course, shipping costs usually preclude this type of comparison). I would love to hear from those that have listened to both and preferred the Rythmik, as I'm always in the mood to save a few $ for a comparable or better product/solution!

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #6 of 201 Old 05-06-2013, 11:55 PM
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That's your evidence? HAHA!

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post #7 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 05:41 AM
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This proves very little...being that the Rythmik FV15HP has 8db more output @ 12.5hz and hangs with the PB13U everwhere else on the low end(16-40hz), also has more output in the mid bass region, it would be a safe bet that the F/E15HP and SB13U would be the same scenario. For the cost difference Rythmik is a much better option and will extend lower with more useable output.

data-bass.com/systems

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/81423-pbcs-svsound-sb13-ultra-user-review.html#post905035

Heck one PSA XV15 @ 799.00 has more output than a SB13U from 16hz on up. The XS15 at 749.00 is probably comparable.
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post #8 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

being that the Rythmik FV15HP has 8db more output @ 12.5h...it would be a safe bet that the F/E15HP and SB13U would be the same scenario...For the cost difference Rythmik is a much better option and will extend lower with more useable output.

The FV15HP offers significantly more output at 12.5Hz versus the PB13U because it's tuned to 12Hz in 1 port mode; the PB13U is tuned at its lowest to 15Hz with a steep filter beyond to keep the system from self destructing. You can't really translate that to how the SB13 and E15HP would perform with respect to each other.
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post #9 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

This proves very little...being that the Rythmik FV15HP has 8db more output @ 12.5hz and hangs with the PB13U everwhere else on the low end(16-40hz), also has more output in the mid bass region, it would be a safe bet that the F/E15HP and SB13U would be the same scenario. For the cost difference Rythmik is a much better option and will extend lower with more useable output.

data-bass.com/systems

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/81423-pbcs-svsound-sb13-ultra-user-review.html#post905035

Heck one PSA XV15 @ 799.00 has more output than a SB13U from 16hz on up. The XS15 at 749.00 is probably comparable.

Those vented subs might as well be the gjallahorn in my application... not gonna happen. As far as the subs the subs I mentioned, the E15 is down 5.5dB at 20Hz compared to the fv15hp... So I suspect the output is not too far off, while likely still in favor of the E15. Still interested in comments from those that have heard both.

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #10 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

This proves very little...being that the Rythmik FV15HP has 8db more output @ 12.5hz and hangs with the PB13U everwhere else on the low end(16-40hz), also has more output in the mid bass region, it would be a safe bet that the F/E15HP and SB13U would be the same scenario. For the cost difference Rythmik is a much better option and will extend lower with more useable output.

data-bass.com/systems

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/81423-pbcs-svsound-sb13-ultra-user-review.html#post905035

Heck one PSA XV15 @ 799.00 has more output than a SB13U from 16hz on up. The XS15 at 749.00 is probably comparable.

I'd be careful making assumptions about max output based off of disparate tests. I loved PBC's review of the SB13U, but he never actually performed CEA2010 testing, he estimated it based off other subs.

As for the ported vs sealed, you can't say with any degree of certainty that because sub A and B perform in such a way, that subs C and D will as well. That is pure speculation at best.

Until solid testing comes about, say Ricci testing the SB13U, then we simply don't know max output capabilities. And even then, max output is just one spec, and even extension is just one more. Many, many items go into how a speaker performs/sounds beyond two data points.
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post #11 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

I'd be careful making assumptions about max output based off of disparate tests. I loved PBC's review of the SB13U, but he never actually performed CEA2010 testing, he estimated it based off other subs.

As for the ported vs sealed, you can't say with any degree of certainty that because sub A and B perform in such a way, that subs C and D will as well. That is pure speculation at best.

Until solid testing comes about, say Ricci testing the SB13U, then we simply don't know max output capabilities. And even then, max output is just one spec, and even extension is just one more. Many, many items go into how a speaker performs/sounds beyond two data points.

Dale Rasco's reviews of the SB13U and F15HP over at HTS is what led me here to ask for opinions/comparisons (with a strong Rythmik following here). While not CEA measurements, his methodology appears sound (not that I'm an expert, though), and he tested both 2m GP and ended up buying the SVS. By his measurements, the F15HP appears to have slightly more headroom (3db at 15Hz, 2dB at 20Hz and 1dB throughout the range). The E15 would be a smidge closer than that even. The penalty of that higher output seems to be an equivalent bump in group delay. I wish he employed CEA methods, as I find the lack of direct comparability frustrating at times (e.g. no THD data below 32Hz for the SB13U, and none whatsoever for the F15HP. And here is someone that could have clearly bought the F15HP if he preferred it... however, it is not clear that he tried it in his HT, or just 2m GP measurements. Anyway, FWIW, the output from his tests seems to indicate the max uncompressed output of the F15HP is 106dB +/-3dB from 20Hz-100Hz, while the SB13U is 105dB +/3db from 21Hz-200+Hz. Sure would be nice to have some CEA numbers on them rolleyes.gif

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #12 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 11:15 AM
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I agree. The main problem there is they measure the output in a way that makes it impossible to compare to other reviews... even their own! I'm guessing they use this "unique method" with the hope to increase traffic/discussion.

Keep in mind... I'm sure part of this has to do with 'Ad Banner Revenue'. You can not risk a brand to be superior to others, in an "ad revenue driven" industry. wink.gif
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post #13 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

I'd be careful making assumptions about max output based off of disparate tests. I loved PBC's review of the SB13U, but he never actually performed CEA2010 testing, he estimated it based off other subs.

As for the ported vs sealed, you can't say with any degree of certainty that because sub A and B perform in such a way, that subs C and D will as well. That is pure speculation at best.

Until solid testing comes about, say Ricci testing the SB13U, then we simply don't know max output capabilities. And even then, max output is just one spec, and even extension is just one more. Many, many items go into how a speaker performs/sounds beyond two data points.

lol whatever...you know as well as I do the rythmik is a better buy. SVS is a quality sub, but there are better options for the money these days.
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post #14 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 05:15 PM
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lol whatever...you know as well as I do the rythmik is a better buy. SVS is a quality sub, but there are better options for the money these days.

The price difference between the SB13-Ultra and a E15HP with gloss piano black finish is only about a $100. And the SVS sub has a much better warranty on the amp.

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post #15 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 05:32 PM
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The price difference between the SB13-Ultra and a E15HP with gloss piano black finish is only about a $100. And the SVS sub has a much better warranty on the amp.

very true, but i would not buy piano gloss, so i didnt factor that in. you dont have the option to chose with the sb13.

which sub would you go with if you had to chose?


Please do not take my post wrong, I am not knocking SVS, but I think there are better options for the money. If money is no concern then buy whatever tickles your fancy. Unfortunetly for me, money is always a concern. Its just my opinion and I am no expert. biggrin.gif
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Please do not take my post wrong, I am not knocking SVS, but I think there are better options for the money.

As always, these things boil down to personal value judgements. I'd like to think I'm not an utter simpleton (though others might disagree), but I spent a fair amount of time agonizing over the FV15HP and PB13U (among other options), and eventually picked the PB13. Obviously dB/$$$ wasn't the only thing that entered into the equation.
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post #17 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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very true, but i would not buy piano gloss, so i didnt factor that in. you dont have the option to chose with the sb13.

which sub would you go with if you had to chose?


Please do not take my post wrong, I am not knocking SVS, but I think there are better options for the money. If money is no concern then buy whatever tickles your fancy. Unfortunetly for me, money is always a concern. Its just my opinion and I am no expert. biggrin.gif
You do have the option to choose the SB13U finish, but it won't save you any money! As far as the SB13U and E15, have you heard either or both of these subs, or just basing your opinions on what you've read (like I am right now)?

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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The price difference between the SB13-Ultra and a E15HP with gloss piano black finish is only about a $100. And the SVS sub has a much better warranty on the amp.
The E15HP-SE is about $300 cheaper right now on the Rythmik site... Listed at MSRP, but shows up at $1199 in cart (plus shipping)... Very tempting.

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post #19 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 06:47 PM
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As always, these things boil down to personal value judgements. I'd like to think I'm not an utter simpleton (though others might disagree), but I spent a fair amount of time agonizing over the FV15HP and PB13U (among other options), and eventually picked the PB13. Obviously dB/$$$ wasn't the only thing that entered into the equation.

Good point! The PB13U is a beast and looks amazing!! Im sure it is worth every penny. I am more of a bang for buck type, However I do realize fit and finish means alot to some folks.
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post #20 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 06:48 PM
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You do have the option to choose the SB13U finish, but it won't save you any money! As far as the SB13U and E15, have you heard either or both of these subs, or just basing your opinions on what you've read (like I am right now)?

thats what i meant...there is no savings on which finish you chose.
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post #21 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 06:53 PM
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You do have the option to choose the SB13U finish, but it won't save you any money! As far as the SB13U and E15, have you heard either or both of these subs, or just basing your opinions on what you've read (like I am right now)?

basing info off of lots of research and reading...unfortunately that only goes so far. sorry if i am no real help.

If I was only fortunate enough to get my hands on all these subs!!
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post #22 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 07:42 PM
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lol whatever...you know as well as I do the rythmik is a better buy. SVS is a quality sub, but there are better options for the money these days.

I actually don't "know" which is the better sub, and neither do most (any?) of the posters so far. I have never heard them, as far as I know I haven't seen any directly comparable test results, or head-to-head comparisons. As I mentioned,comparing disparate results from different sources using different methodologies is a fools errand. So, I again, I don't "know the Rythmik is a better buy."

Further, "better" is highly subjective. You mentioned you are a bang-for-the-buuck fan, so SPL/$$$ may be your yardstick. Eventually these subs are likely to be tested to the same standard and we'll have something to compare and determine if your yardstick is met. Others may value warranty, aesthetics, the more advanced DSP/PEQ's in the SVS or the Servo control in the Rythmik, and determine one is a "better buy."

I'm not trying to get personal, or attack you or your opinion, but currently all you have is an opinion based off of roughly analogous (though not directly comparable) data and a personal opinion on what to use as a measuring stick. That is hardly definitive.

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post #23 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

The E15HP-SE is about $300 cheaper right now on the Rythmik site... Listed at MSRP, but shows up at $1199 in cart (plus shipping)... Very tempting.

That's true, I based my comment on if you were to order the same piano finish for either sub. SVS doesn't charge extra for the piano finish.

I personally really like Rythmik subs so I would probably go with one from Rythmik. But there is something to be said about having an extra three year warranty on your amp that you would get from SVS. If something's going to fail on a sub most of the time it'll be the amp.

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post #24 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 08:26 PM
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You can base your purchase on the warranty. I base my purchase on the performance.
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post #25 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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That's true, I based my comment on if you were to order the same piano finish for either sub. SVS doesn't charge extra for the piano finish.

I personally really like Rythmik subs so I would probably go with one from Rythmik. But there is something to be said about having an extra three year warranty on your amp that you would get from SVS. If something's going to fail on a sub most of the time it'll be the amp.
$1199 IS for the gloss E15 currently, have to add to cart to see that price though. I think it is on sale while the black oak finish is out of stock... That's why I said it is tempting smile.gif

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post #26 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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You can base your purchase on the warranty. I base my purchase on the performance.
So you buy only used and refurb, I assume? Or better yet, strictly DIY?

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #27 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 08:41 PM
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I actually don't "know" which is the better sub, and neither do most (any?) of the posters so far. I have never heard them, as far as I know I haven't seen any directly comparable test results, or head-to-head comparisons. As I mentioned,comparing disparate results from different sources using different methodologies is a fools errand. So, I again, I don't "know the Rythmik is a better buy."

Further, "better" is highly subjective. You mentioned you are a bang-for-the-buuck fan, so SPL/$$$ may be your yardstick. Eventually these subs are likely to be tested to the same standard and we'll have something to compare and determine if your yardstick is met. Others may value warranty, aesthetics, the more advanced DSP/PEQ's in the SVS or the Servo control in the Rythmik, and determine one is a "better buy."

I'm not trying to get personal, or attack you or your opinion, but currently all you have is an opinion based off of roughly analogous (though not directly comparable) data and a personal opinion on what to use as a measuring stick. That is hardly definitive.

thats true cant argue that...however its a pretty safe bet that the e15 will have similar performance to the sb13u for less money. the e15 uses the same amp and driver that the fv15hp uses...the same goes for the sb13 and pb13. there is plenty of info on the fv15hp and pb13 to make a fairly accurate assumption on how the sealed variants will perform. this is not rocket science.
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post #28 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 08:46 PM
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You can base your purchase on the warranty. I base my purchase on the performance.
So you buy only used and refurb, I assume? Or better yet, strictly DIY?

I buy new, based on the best performance my budget will allow. Warranty is only an afterthought. No interest in dyi.
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post #29 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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thats true cant argue that...however its a pretty safe bet that the e15 will have similar performance to the sb13u for less money. the e15 uses the same amp and driver that the fv15hp uses...the same goes for the sb13 and pb13. there is plenty of info on the fv15hp and pb13 to make a fairly accurate assumption on how the sealed variants will perform. this is not rocket science.
There are a few driver differences between the sb13u and the Pb13u... Pbc detailed them in his audioholics review.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #30 of 201 Old 05-07-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DualMono View Post

You can base your purchase on the warranty. I base my purchase on the performance.

What sub or subs do you currently have now?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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