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post #61 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

basshead, is your name Joe?
I have to apologize, I think I miss read some of what you said. Sorry getting ready for a family vacation and having two young ones running around while you're trying to read and type seems to lead to bad things...lol
Yes two XV15's roughly in the range of 15hz to 30hz would have 5-6db more output, of course that's assuming you are stacking them. Otherwise it's probably more like 4db. But below the port tune I still have to believe the XS30 would have more output when comparing one to one.

yep thats me...no worries have a nice vacation!
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post #62 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Follz20 View Post

It really is just a guessing game without all the variables.

If Beeman added his third sub and it gave him some further extension, it is possible that the position he put the sub in yields the lowest extension relative to his LP. If that were the case, he would have been able to gain that extension without actually getting another sub and instead moving one of his other subs into that spot theoretically would have yielded the same result.

As a general matter, if you find a spot in your room that yields the lowest frequency extension, then sans getting another type of subwoofer to dig lower, that is the best extension you can expect with the same subwoofer. After all, ported subs don't magically have lower tuning frequencies simply because you added another or ten into the same room - the roll-off below tune will still be the same.

I can't fathom why you take this all so personally or as a slight against your subs or PSA, basshead. I think the XV15 is the best sub in its price range. The only reason this discussion has continued is that you are in just about every thread throwing around random SPL numbers that are relative to you, your room and your setup alone. They are not transferable between rooms or different setups. Some members may be able to hit much better numbers with the same subs in their rooms, others will do much worse (and it still says nothing about distortion), so where is the value in it?

The transfer function of the room from the sub to the LP is the most important factor IMO. Some rooms are easy to drive (like yours), others are substantially harder (like Archaea's), cubic volume doesn't tell you everything you need to know.

I am Not taking anything personal...however yet again you are assuming things. there is nothing wrong with me throwing out spl numbers when I provided the data to back it up. I am completely aware that some rooms may do better and some may do worse far as output and extension. Im am simply sharing real world results as a median on what to expect for performance. Im not saying my setup is the best thing since sliced bread. Some of you folks take what I post the wrong way!! When it comes to buying internet direct us consumers are buying off of info we read. We can not go to the store and listen to these products. Wouldnt you think folks like myself sharing graphs of in room performance would help solidify ones decision on buying a subwoofer? I can tell you for a fact I would appreciate it if more folks did the same thing.
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post #63 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

The used Hsu vtf -15h is still on craigslist and the seller is firm at $700. So that is still something to consider as well if I was leaning toward the xv15.

Your best buys would have been the used subs. A PC13 Ultra for $1100? I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat. It would have destroyed everything else mentioned here in deep bass output. If it is still up, go grab it. A VTF15h for $700? I wouldn't think twice about that deal, I would have grabbed that if it were in good condition. Its performance is on the level of the SVS PB12 Plus and likely the XS30. The XV15 is more on the level of the VTF3 or Outlaw LFM EX.
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post #64 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

yep thats me...no worries have a nice vacation!

Well from one Joe to another thanks!....lol

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post #65 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Your best buys would have been the used subs. A PC13 Ultra for $1100? I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat. It would have destroyed everything else mentioned here in deep bass output. If it is still up, go grab it. A VTF15h for $700? I wouldn't think twice about that deal, I would have grabbed that if it were in good condition. Its performance is on the level of the SVS PB12 Plus and likely the XS30. The XV15 is more on the level of the VTF3 or Outlaw LFM EX.

do you have any output numbers on the vtf15?
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post #66 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 04:04 PM
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It's been measured here. Also here.
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post #67 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It's been measured here. Also here.

so how do you come to the conclusion the vtf15 is another level above the xv15?

xv15 vtf15 (2port open for max spl)

16hz 98.1
20hz 102.7 103.9
25hz 106.2 109.8
32hz 109.6 113
40hz 113.7 115.7
50hz 116.6 115.7
63hz 114.7 115.6


From what i see the xv15 extends lower but has less output from 25-40hz, slightly less at 20 and 63hz, more at 50hz. now with the vtf15 in 1 port extension mode the xv15 would be pretty even... I would consider them very equal performers. oh and thanks for the links!
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post #68 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:04 PM
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The VTF15h is clearly a higher performer, and this is even with a less powerful amplifier and driver with probably less xmax. You are completely ignoring the VTF15h's upper bass advantage as well.
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post #69 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The VTF15h is clearly a higher performer, and this is even with a less powerful amplifier and driver with probably less xmax. You are completely ignoring the VTF15h's upper bass advantage as well.

i didnt ignore anything...i went off of the measurement you posted.
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post #70 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I asked Tom how the xs30 and xv15 compare with the room diagram I provided him. He says in the low bass frequency there is little difference but mid bass (40-100hz) the xs30 will have roughly twice the output capacity. Is this frequency where most of the sound occurs or is it in the low bass zone? I usually have the receiver crossover set at 80hz. I am not at expert on this subject by any means. Also the Hsu vtf-15h has its price down to $675. Thanks.
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post #71 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a denon avr-1913 and five energy veritas v5.2 speakers. These speakers are bookshelf speakers with 5.25" woofers. Would setting the crossover frequency to 100 Hz affect the sound negatively by localizing the subwoofer? If not, then maybe I could take advantage of the xs30's superior mid bass power. If 100 Hz wouldn't work, I think the xs30 would be overkill, considering it cost more than all five of my other speakers. Also, the tone adjustment of the Hsu sounds great in theory, but I worry that it may be prone to failure due to increased complexity. Any thoughts on these topics? I would like to decide by the end of the week. Thanks.
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post #72 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

I asked Tom how the xs30 and xv15 compare with the room diagram I provided him. He says in the low bass frequency there is little difference but mid bass (40-100hz) the xs30 will have roughly twice the output capacity. Is this frequency where most of the sound occurs or is it in the low bass zone? I usually have the receiver crossover set at 80hz. I am not at expert on this subject by any means. Also the Hsu vtf-15h has its price down to $675. Thanks.

Lol, where are you located, because if you won't buy that Hsu I will! The XV15 should have a bit more output than the XS30 at its tuning point, but not a whole lot more. Everywhere else the XS30 will whoop it. I think the XS30 will have even more than merely twice its max output above 60 hz because the XV15 seems to roll off some above that point. And yes, most bass sounds happen above 40 hz, especially in music. If you like loud music, the XS30 would be a great sub for that.
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post #73 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

so how do you come to the conclusion the vtf15 is another level above the xv15?

xv15 vtf15 (2port open for max spl)

16hz 98.1
20hz 102.7 103.9
25hz 106.2 109.8
32hz 109.6 113
40hz 113.7 115.7
50hz 116.6 115.7
63hz 114.7 115.6


From what i see the xv15 extends lower but has less output from 25-40hz, slightly less at 20 and 63hz, more at 50hz. now with the vtf15 in 1 port extension mode the xv15 would be pretty even... I would consider them very equal performers. oh and thanks for the links!


Let's just say the XV-15 is the best sub you can get for $800 and the 15H is the best you can get for $1000.

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post #74 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

I currently have a denon avr-1913 and five energy veritas v5.2 speakers. These speakers are bookshelf speakers with 5.25" woofers. Would setting the crossover frequency to 100 Hz affect the sound negatively by localizing the subwoofer? If not, then maybe I could take advantage of the xs30's superior mid bass power. If 100 Hz wouldn't work, I think the xs30 would be overkill, considering it cost more than all five of my other speakers. Also, the tone adjustment of the Hsu sounds great in theory, but I worry that it may be prone to failure due to increased complexity. Any thoughts on these topics? I would like to decide by the end of the week. Thanks.

Bass above 80 hz is a lot more localizable. If you set your crossover over that you will really risk having the sub draw attention to itself. You can get around this by going for a multiple sub setup. The variable tuning isn't going to make the Hsu less reliable. Hsu has had variable tuned subs out for years and has a very good reputation for reliability. You just do not want to run the sub set to 1EQ mode with both ports open, that can risk the driver at high loudness levels, but that is all explained in the manual. 2EQ mode is the best mode to run that sub in anyway.

It's not really complex how the VTF can switch tuning points. Speaker and subwoofer ports produce sound, the same way you can make a sound by blowing over the top of an open bottle. This is called a Helmholtz resonator. The longer and narrower the bottle/port, the deeper the frequency of sound it will produce. Two or more ports is like one wider port, so it brings the sound pitch up. You can tune your speakers using ports, but the catch is, with everything else being equal, the lower they go, the less loud they can get, so it is a trade-off. With variable tuned subwoofers or speakers, that is a trade-off the user can partly decide on.
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post #75 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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The Hsu is in Easton, PA.
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post #76 of 84 Old 05-17-2013, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Lol, where are you located, because if you won't buy that Hsu I will! The XV15 should have a bit more output than the XS30 at its tuning point, but not a whole lot more. Everywhere else the XS30 will whoop it. I think the XS30 will have even more than merely twice its max output above 60 hz because the XV15 seems to roll off some above that point. And yes, most bass sounds happen above 40 hz, especially in music. If you like loud music, the XS30 would be a great sub for that.

True but the next question would be how much output does the op need? Tom told me that the xv15 still has plenty of midbass and the only time the xs30 is going to shine is when the xv15 runs out of steam. So does the op want 116db mid bass or 122db mid bass? both subs will play at ear damaging levels cleanly. This is why audioholics has room size ratings...both the xv15 and vtf15 are certified large 3000-5000^3. I would think the xs30 maybe a extreme contender 5000^3 +?

All this being said for 675 I would jump on the VTF15! Im all about bang for the buck...All of the Internet Direct companies produce subs that offer extreme output capabilities.
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post #77 of 84 Old 05-17-2013, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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The price dropped to $650 on the Hsu and I plan on checking it out tomorrow. Any thing in particular to check for when buying a used subwoofer?
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post #78 of 84 Old 05-17-2013, 08:12 PM
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If it sounds fine, it probably is fine. With subwoofers, the problem usually isn't hidden like it can be on cars sometimes. Very likely if it is messed up you will be able to tell right away by playing any material. $650 on a VTF15h is a killer deal.
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post #79 of 84 Old 05-17-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Shady, you stated that you would take the svs pc-13 ultra above all other options. I have to drive about two hours to check out the vtf-15 but the svs is only 30 minutes away from that. I just emailed the svs seller for more info incase the Hsu deal doesn't happen. Care to share what you like about the svs cylinder sub. The Hsu is my first choice by price but while I'm in the neighborhood...
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post #80 of 84 Old 05-17-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Shady, you stated that you would take the svs pc-13 ultra above all other options. I have to drive about two hours to check out the vtf-15 but the svs is only 30 minutes away from that. I just emailed the svs seller for more info incase the Hsu deal doesn't happen. Care to share what you like about the svs cylinder sub. The Hsu is my first choice by price but while I'm in the neighborhood...

He recomended it because it has a boat load of clean output and digs really deep(sledge version)...i believe down to 12.5hz. audioholics gave it the extreme bassaholic rating for 5000^3 and larger rooms. for comparison the pc13ultra would have more low end output than a xs30 but less mid bass...however depending on room gain the xs30 may give you extension into the single digits. I would still jump on that HSU VTF15 for 650.00.

Oh on a side note make sure that pc13ultra is a sledge amp and not bash...i believe the bash version was similar to the vtf15 in performance...so you would be paying more for little gain. ill say it again, the vtf15 for 650 would be my choice!
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post #81 of 84 Old 05-18-2013, 09:08 AM
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The PC13 will have more deeper bass than any of the others. $1100 is a good price for it, especially if it has the Sledge amp. I'm not sure that the Sledge amp really outperforms the BASH amps though, the limiters on the Sledge amps are pretty aggressive. Either amp on the PC13 will give you more deep bass than the VTF15h though, as the amp won't affect tuning that much. I don't think they will have substantially more mid or upper bass than the VTF15h, but it should still have more.
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post #82 of 84 Old 05-23-2013, 03:38 PM
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I just purchased the new Pioneer 1522 9.2 Reciever.
I'm shopping for new Speaker and Sub on a limited budget of appx. $800 for a 5.1 or 5.2 set up..
I'm wondering if it would be better to purchase?

The Polk PSW510 $200 Amazon http://www.polkaudio.com/products/psw505 which fits my budget

2 Budget subs from monoprice http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090602&p_id=9723&seq=1&format=3#specification

Opinions and advice highly appreciated smile.gif
.
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post #83 of 84 Old 05-23-2013, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, I forgot to post in this thread but I did buy the used Hsu vtf-15h on craigslist and it is a huge step up from my energy s10.3. I also went and ordered this sub from woot.com for my computer speakers.
http://www.woot.com/offers/jamo-360w-10-subwoofer
It's on deep discount and not in the same league as the Hsu, but may be an alternative to the budget subs you are considering.
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post #84 of 84 Old 05-23-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratclib2014 View Post

I just purchased the new Pioneer 1522 9.2 Reciever.
I'm shopping for new Speaker and Sub on a limited budget of appx. $800 for a 5.1 or 5.2 set up..
I'm wondering if it would be better to purchase?

The Polk PSW510 $200 Amazon http://www.polkaudio.com/products/psw505 which fits my budget

2 Budget subs from monoprice http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090602&p_id=9723&seq=1&format=3#specification

Opinions and advice highly appreciated smile.gif
.

go with the hsu stf-2 while its on sale!

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

this is a great price on a killer 5.1 system...slightly over your budget tho.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/value2pkg.html
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