Subwoofer recommendation - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 84 Old 05-11-2013, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am in the market for a home theater subwoofer for use in a 2200 cubic feet carpeted room. I am leaning towards the PSA XV15, but would appreciate any other recommendations in this price range. Craigslist has a Hsu vtf-15 listed for $700 but I haven't checked it out. Owner say its a year old and in great condition but I like the idea off buying new with the customer support from the manufacturer. I just sold my subwoofers listed on the AVS classifieds and now am without any sub. I want to make a decision in the next week. Thank you.
mmbuckwa is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 84 Old 05-11-2013, 07:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
the vtf-15 is a solid sub, but I would be leary buying used...especially when you can get a new xv15 for 100.00 more.
basshead81 is offline  
post #3 of 84 Old 05-11-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My thoughts exactly. The Hsu vtf-3 mk4 new is the same price as the PSA xv15 but only has a 12" woofer. No reason this Hsu would outperform the PSA, right?
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #4 of 84 Old 05-11-2013, 07:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
the mk4 is another great sub but its not going to have the output that the xv15 does. I think they are similar at 20hz, but the xv15 trumps it everywhere else.
basshead81 is offline  
post #5 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a thought but two PA-150 subs can be had for less than one PSA xv15 with a coupon code. On paper they seem similar but I doubt that is the case. Could any argument be made that this is a valid option to consider?
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #6 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 09:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,331
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 658
The PA-150s have fantastic midbass output, but will not equal one XV15 for the low end output. They have a lot of rolloff in frequency response. If you want dual subs, you could go with a VTF-2 mk4 or Outlaw Audio Plus and save up for another later on. Either of those has sufficient output for a 2200 cubic feet room.

I think I remember reading that HSU warranties are transferable. You'll have a year left on the amplifier and six years on the driver. One doesn't hear about problems with HSU subs, so that's more than enough warranty to guarantee the CL sale doesn't have a hidden problem with the sub.

cel4145 is online now  
post #7 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 11:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,379
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 451
A year old VTF15h for $700? I would hop right on that sucker.
shadyJ is online now  
post #8 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Why would you buy a used Hsu vtf 15h over a new PSA xv15? Is the Hsu considered that much better? Thanks.
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #9 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Prime316's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Why would you buy a used Hsu vtf 15h over a new PSA xv15? Is the Hsu considered that much better? Thanks.

I've not heard the XV-15 in person but I don't think a year old VTF-15H had lost nothing besides the new smell. I can tell you that they are tanks. Do I consider them equals right out the box....No.

But if you like the new smell and believe you me that I do too, order the PSA.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
Prime316 is offline  
post #10 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Why would you buy a used Hsu vtf 15h over a new PSA xv15? Is the Hsu considered that much better? Thanks.

No they are very similar performance wise, the only difference is variable tuning and they cost more.

basically with the vtf15, if you tune it for max extension the xv15 will have slightly more mid bass output, but less low end output. however if you tune the vtf15 for max output, then the xv15 has more output below 20hz and slightly less mid bass output. so tuning it one way or the other will net a slight advantage in that fr range. If you can score it for 700.00 to your door, then its probably a good choice.
basshead81 is offline  
post #11 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I may ask the seller of the Hsu if the price is negotiable. It is located two hours away and I couldn't get there until this coming weekend if its still available. Is the $700 asking price a good deal? I don't want to insult the seller and I hate trying to haggle over price.
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #12 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Prime316's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

I may ask the seller of the Hsu if the price is negotiable. It is located two hours away and I couldn't get there until this coming weekend if its still available. Is the $700 asking price a good deal? I don't want to insult the seller and I hate trying to haggle over price.

Remember, the 15H is about $1,020 delivered new. If you can get him to drop another $50-$75 then do it but don't let it break the deal for you. Many people love their XV-15's around these parts but I don't think they are the exact same as 15H's.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
Prime316 is offline  
post #13 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
I think a used sub with warranty in tact is worth 60-70% of retail depending on condition. I would offer him 650.00...that would be a great deal for you!!
basshead81 is offline  
post #14 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just sent an email to the seller asking if price is negotiable and telling him I can't check it out until Saturday if that suits him and he hasn't already sold it. I guess I will wait and see how this plays out.
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #15 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Another craigslist option, an SVS pc-13 ultra for $1100. Its stretching my budget but is it worth consideration. Only 13.5" driver but is the cylinder an inherently superior design? If so why isn't it more popular? Poor styling?
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #16 of 84 Old 05-12-2013, 09:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Prime316's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Another craigslist option, an SVS pc-13 ultra for $1100. Its stretching my budget but is it worth consideration. Only 13.5" driver but is the cylinder an inherently superior design? If so why isn't it more popular? Poor styling?

As far as I know, the only advantage of the cylinder sub is that it's lighter and has a smaller footprint than it's counterpart. It may even give up a little power to it's box designed counterpart. Many people don't like the look of the cylinder subs. Often they are called 'hot water heaters'...lol.

Now you are speaking about a lot more money. Maybe you should step back and consider all the options out there for $1,100 or less if you are willing to go that high.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-42ii x 2
Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
Sony Playstation 4
Microsoft Xbox One
Prime316 is offline  
post #17 of 84 Old 05-13-2013, 06:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Another craigslist option, an SVS pc-13 ultra for $1100. Its stretching my budget but is it worth consideration. Only 13.5" driver but is the cylinder an inherently superior design? If so why isn't it more popular? Poor styling?

If your now uping the budget to 1100, I would be looking at a XS30 from PSA for 1149.00 shipped. Or the Chase Home Theatre 18.1 with a crown xls1500 amp 799.00 + 348.00 = 1147.00.
basshead81 is offline  
post #18 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am deciding whether to spend the extra $350 for the xs30 over the xv15. Is this upgrade huge or more like diminishing returns? Thanks.
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #19 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 05:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,331
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 658
Maybe no extra returns. The XV15 is more than enough sub for a 2200 cubic feet room. You would get more benefit from waiting and buying a 2nd XV15 when you can afford it.

cel4145 is online now  
post #20 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 05:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked: 734
Well I guess it really comes down to what you're comfortable with spending. My theater is basically the same size as yours and I have dual XS30's and I think they are great value, but of course what I consider value might be totally different from what you call value. IMO yes the XS30 is worth the extra money after talking with Tom for a week or two about the two subs.

One XS30 is better then a single XV15's but dual XV15's would be better then a single XS30, but if you had the budget dual XS30's would defiantly be a better setup in value.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #21 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 07:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,331
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

One XS30 is better then a single XV15's but dual XV15's would be better then a single XS30, but if you had the budget dual XS30's would defiantly be a better setup in value.

Maybe not than three XV15s, if the goal is to get an even response throughout the room.

cel4145 is online now  
post #22 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Maybe not than three XV15s, if the goal is to get an even response throughout the room.

Three would be a good argument, but two XS30's would still have more output above 30hz over three XV15's and below 20hz they would also most likely have more output.
2200cubic/ft isn't very big so two XS30's would have a pretty even response throughout the room. At least it does in my 2100cubic/ft room.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #23 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Talking with Tom he recommended the xv15 over the xs15 if sticking with only one subwoofer. My budget is limited to only one and I will wait to hear what he says about xv15 and xs30. Just wanted to get other feedback as well. I appreciate all the responses and plan to make a decision by the end of the week.
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #24 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked: 734
If you are limited to only one sub and its between those two and you do have the budget for the XS30 then defiantly I say go with the XS30. 40hz and above it would take two XV15's to equal one XS30, and below 20hz the XS30 again has more output then a XV15. So if you can afford one then IMO it's totally worth the extra $350.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #25 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just to consider my options, is an xs30 the best sub I can get for about a grand?
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #26 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbuckwa View Post

Just to consider my options, is an xs30 the best sub I can get for about a grand?

Well the XS30 is $1150 not $1000. Some would argue that the HSU VTF-15H is the best value for about a grand, but I still think if you are spending under $1000 get the XV15. But if you are willing to spend the extra $150 I would go with the XS30. Before I bought both of mine I had a budget of about $2500 for my sub upgrade, and I looked at some much higher end subs over the XS30. But when I started to really look at it and being able to buy two XS30`s for less then the price of a SubMersive HP it was almost a no brainer for me. I personally feel there isn`t a sub under $1200 that I would take over a XS30.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #27 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Three would be a good argument, but two XS30's would still have more output above 30hz over three XV15's and below 20hz they would also most likely have more output.
2200cubic/ft isn't very big so two XS30's would have a pretty even response throughout the room. At least it does in my 2100cubic/ft room.

until you take measurements you can only assume. the xs30 will not have more output in the lower range until the xv15's run out of steam. which in my room is 115db @ 15hz and 108db @ 12hz.

quote from Tom's email...

"It would be the same as 2 XV15 versus 1 XS30.   In the mid and upper bass....very close. In the deeper bass (15-35hz) a big advantage to the XV15s. (about double...5-6dB more)."

3xv15's would have 2-3db more output in the 15-35hz range over 2 xs30's...and unless the room is sealed the xs30's may not exceed the output below that. also in the end how much output does one need? my dual xv15's have more output across the range than a humans ear can tolerate for any length of time. the xs30's would add headroom in the mid bass, but its not needed in rooms smaller than 3000^3. so with the xs30's your buying extra output that 90% of most folks will never tap into...its more bragging rights than anything. now im not saying dont buy a xs30...for for folks who prefer a sealed sub taylored for music and works good for HT then its a great option. however for folks that want a sub taylored towards HT, the xv15 will get you what you need for alot less money and sound great with music aswell.
basshead81 is offline  
post #28 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mmbuckwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The used Hsu vtf -15h is still on craigslist and the seller is firm at $700. So that is still something to consider as well if I was leaning toward the xv15.
mmbuckwa is online now  
post #29 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 09:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 311 Post(s)
Liked: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

until you take measurements you can only assume. the xs30 will not have more output in the lower range until the xv15's run out of steam. which in my room is 115db @ 15hz and 108db @ 12hz.

quote from Tom's email...

"It would be the same as 2 XV15 versus 1 XS30.   In the mid and upper bass....very close. In the deeper bass (15-35hz) a big advantage to the XV15s. (about double...5-6dB more)."

3xv15's would have 2-3db more output in the 15-35hz range over 2 xs30's...and unless the room is sealed the xs30's may not exceed the output below that. also in the end how much output does one need? my dual xv15's have more output across the range than a humans ear can tolerate for any length of time. the xs30's would add headroom in the mid bass, but its not needed in rooms smaller than 3000^3. so with the xs30's your buying extra output that 90% of most folks will never tap into...its more bragging rights than anything. now im not saying dont buy a xs30...for for folks who prefer a sealed sub taylored for music and works good for HT then its a great option. however for folks that want a sub taylored towards HT, the xv15 will get you what you need for alot less money and sound great with music aswell.

Basshead, in the 20-31.5hz range the XV15 only has a .5db output advantage over a XS30 which is nothing basically. Three XV15`s would only have an output of about 116db in that range. Two XS30`s would have about 112db. The port tune of the XV15 is right around 17-18hz, the output of the XV15 is going to start to roll off pretty quickly after that. Three XV15`s would not have 5-6db more then two XS30 in the 15hz-35hz range. I went threw all of this with Tom back in November early December when I was going to buy dual XV15`s but held off because the XS30 was just going to release.

Josh Ricci`s measurements also show that the output rolls off at 16hz too. Just look at the data-bass numbers. So there is absolutely no way a XV15 has more output has any advantage over the XS30 down to 15hz.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
jbrown15 is online now  
post #30 of 84 Old 05-15-2013, 09:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1340
and just to add...I am still considering xs30's because I listen to alot more music at reference levels than movies. so i keep getting this what if in the back of my head. I dont really care about more output, but i aklm curious to see if the sealed design will sound more musical...not that the xv15 isnt. this is the on going problem with buying internet direct because you can not hear before you buy, so your always left with "what if" in the back of your head lol.
basshead81 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off