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post #61 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I don't think the FV15HP is that far out in terms of performance per its specs. It's just a well-executed 15" ported sub. If you place a good driver with a beefy amp in a box of about those dimensions, I think that is about what you can expect. SVS manages to squeeze a similar level of performance out of a 13" driver (granted it's a very heavy duty driver).

and ALOT more power...
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post #62 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Either the FV15HP is a freak of nature or something does not jive in the specs for one or the other. Either way, great job on the FV15HP as it seems to be an over achiever compared to other 15s.

I agree...I dont see how a aluminum 15" driver with 600watts is going keep up with 30" of cone area and 1000watts. the xv15 driver looks to a much more efficient in my opinion with more excursion...

now dont take this post the wrong way im not denying the fv15hp capability, something is not adding up when comparing to other subs on the market. I can see the svs13 ultra having the output it does by the design, heavy duty long throw driver, and gobs of power.
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post #63 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 11:58 AM
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15" diameter + 15" diameter does not equal 30" diameter of area. But if the driver is good, yes, it can double the performance of other similar sized drivers. Often high excursion drivers need a lot more power to achieve the same SPL as others for the same cone area. The Rythmik driver may be a lot more sensitive than the PSA drivers, so less energy will go a lot further with it.
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post #64 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 12:07 PM
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A = pi * r^2

A 15" cone has an area of about 177"sq.
Two 15" cones provide about 353"sq, about the same area as a 21" cone.
A 30" cone has an area of about 707"sq.

The largest cone I recall seeing/hearing was a 31" EV many years ago, followed by 24" Hartley's in an HQD system.

There is way more to sub quality and output than cone area...

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post #65 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

15" diameter + 15" diameter does not equal 30" diameter of area. But if the driver is good, yes, it can double the performance of other similar sized drivers. Often high excursion drivers need a lot more power to achieve the same SPL as others for the same cone area. The Rythmik driver may be a lot more sensitive than the PSA drivers, so less energy will go a lot further with it.

I agree, and why I said what I said. Look at this way, if a 15 is more sensitive and needs less power it makes sense. If a 15 is less sensitive and needs more power for the same output than you give it that power to do so. Maybe the less sensitive driver just can't take the power it needs to equal the other. The PSA says 2 inch peak to peak, does this mean 1 inch x-max? If so than that would explain it because the FV15HP would have about 1.5 inch x-max one way, maybe more.
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post #66 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

A = pi * r^2

A 15" cone has an area of about 177"sq.
Two 15" cones provide about 353"sq, about the same area as a 21" cone.
A 30" cone has an area of about 707"sq.

The largest cone I recall seeing/hearing was a 31" EV many years ago, followed by 24" Hartley's in an HQD system.

There is way more to sub quality and output than cone area...

Ok my mistake i gues i should of said 2 15" drivers.
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post #67 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree, and why I said what I said. Look at this way, if a 15 is more sensitive and needs less power it makes sense. If a 15 is less sensitive and needs more power for the same output than you give it that power to do so. Maybe the less sensitive driver just can't take the power it needs to equal the other. The PSA says 2 inch peak to peak, does this mean 1 inch x-max? If so than that would explain it because the FV15HP would have about 1.5 inch x-max one way, maybe more.

ahh ok so being the fv15hp driver has more excursion, more sensitive, and being servo controlled produces extra output over the xv15?
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post #68 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

ahh ok so being the fv15hp driver has more excursion, more sensitive, and being servo controlled produces extra output over the xv15?

Servo controlled means keeping distortions levels in check through out the response. Of course there is more to it but servo amps are not more powerful than other amps.
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post #69 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 12:58 PM
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See, this is where I am confused because if the XS30 can hit 92-94 dBs at 10hz(what THD?) then it would be as powerful as a UXL-18 single and more powerful than Captivator single. So it would have to be 2 inches x-max to do so. I know there is math to figure this out, where are you guys.
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post #70 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

See, this is where I am confused because if the XS30 can hit 92-94 dBs at 10hz(what THD?) then it would be as powerful as a UXL-18 single and more powerful than Captivator single. So it would have to be 2 inches x-max to do so. I know there is math to figure this out, where are you guys.

I would really like to see some serious third party measurements before taking those claims very seriously, if that is what PSA is claiming. To PSA's credit, their claims for the CEA measured output are nearly what Josh Ricci measured, if a wee bit on the high side.
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Servo controlled means keeping distortions levels in check through out the response. Of course there is more to it but servo amps are not more powerful than other amps.

Rythmik does claim that the servo mechanism can achieve higher output per watt. I guess you can't attribute that to driver sensitivity alone as the amp would be involved in that equation as well.
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post #71 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 01:41 PM
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I guess, I bet more marketing than anything. I mean SVS uses just more power and a smaller driver for similar numbers. Still, FV15HP has great numbers for a commercial product period. Guys have to remember it digs deeper because it is tuned lower. Ricci measured a 12 Hz tune with one port which is low, which I happen to like.
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post #72 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

See, this is where I am confused because if the XS30 can hit 92-94 dBs at 10hz(what THD?)
The more important question is under what conditions (I'd assume in room given what I've seen of Tom's estimates to potential customers). The compression graphs on PSA's website for the XS30 show it delivering about 86dB at 10Hz before appearing to run out of steam.
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

then it would be as powerful as a UXL-18 single and more powerful than Captivator single. So it would have to be 2 inches x-max to do so. I know there is math to figure this out, where are you guys.

A Cap S1 utilizes an 18" woofer with 30mm xmax. To equal that displacement with a pair of 15" woofers, they'd need an xmax of about 22mm, i.e. slightly under an inch.
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post #73 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post


I seem to recall Tom V saying that a single XS30 would hit 100db @ 10hz.

Sorry I just checked my old email from Tom and he said 93-94db.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

See, this is where I am confused because if the XS30 can hit 92-94 dBs at 10hz(what THD?) then it would be as powerful as a UXL-18 single and more powerful than Captivator single. So it would have to be 2 inches x-max to do so. I know there is math to figure this out, where are you guys.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post


I would really like to see some serious third party measurements before taking those claims very seriously, if that is what PSA is claiming. To PSA's credit, their claims for the CEA measured output are nearly what Josh Ricci measured, if a wee bit on the high side.
 

jbrown15 was referring to in-room measurement claims by Tom. This is not ground plane that you can compare to the data-bass numbers.

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post #74 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I don't think the FV15HP is that far out in terms of performance per its specs. It's just a well-executed 15" ported sub. If you place a good driver with a beefy amp in a box of about those dimensions, I think that is about what you can expect.

Logically, that makes sense. However, I haven't seen its commercial equal for its size. There does seem to be some secret sauce there, as no other commercial sub has been able to pull off that low extension for a moderately sized 15in ported sub.

 

Don't get me wrong, it ain't magic, but it does seem like a tough recipe to figure out. If it were easy, we'd see similar designs from other mfgs.

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post #75 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Logically, that makes sense. However, I haven't seen its commercial equal for its size. There does seem to be some secret sauce there, as no other commercial sub has been able to pull off that low extension for a moderately sized 15in ported sub.

Don't get me wrong, it ain't magic, but it does seem like a tough recipe to figure out. If it were easy, we'd see similar designs from other mfgs.
agreed
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post #76 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 07:29 PM
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Because it is tuned lower.
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post #77 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Because it is tuned lower.

LOL! Way to give away the secret sauce...rolleyes.gif

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post #78 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:27 PM
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LOL! Way to give away the secret sauce...rolleyes.gif

its not done till you got A1.
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post #79 of 84 Old 05-16-2013, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Logically, that makes sense. However, I haven't seen its commercial equal for its size. There does seem to be some secret sauce there, as no other commercial sub has been able to pull off that low extension for a moderately sized 15in ported sub.

Don't get me wrong, it ain't magic, but it does seem like a tough recipe to figure out. If it were easy, we'd see similar designs from other mfgs.

It's a pretty big sub, bigger than most. And there just aren't that many commercial 15" subs in that size of a cabinet. I would like to have seen the numbers for that big ported 15" that Elemental Designs had out a few years ago. If you take a heavy enough 15" driver and give it enough juice with that much internal volume, you can hit those kinds of numbers with no problem. How Rythmik manages to do it at such a low cost is the wonder here.
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post #80 of 84 Old 05-18-2013, 11:21 PM
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why keep an eye on 15"

JTR CAP s2 has dual 18" with 2400w
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post #81 of 84 Old 05-19-2013, 12:28 AM
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The S1 has a 2400w class D amp. The S2 has almost double the power, believe its a 4k watt amp.
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post #82 of 84 Old 05-19-2013, 02:25 AM
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Jar s2 is a monster
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post #83 of 84 Old 05-19-2013, 12:39 PM
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Not a $1200 sub.
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post #84 of 84 Old 05-19-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremymak View Post

why keep an eye on 15"

JTR CAP s2 has dual 18" with 2400w

Because as said its not a $1200 sub. I wish it was tho than I could afford a couple of them.

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