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post #1 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Should I get a single or dual?
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post #2 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Rythmik FV-15HP single or dual something else? I can probably swing 3 SVS PB-1000 for the price of a Rythmik FV-15HP.
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post #3 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:47 AM
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The advantage of multiple subs is that you can even out the response in the room better with dual subs as compared to a single sub. Also, dual subs do not have to be driven as loud as a single one, which means less distortion.

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post #4 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Rythmik FV-15HP single or dual something else? I can probably swing 3 SVS PB-1000 for the price of a Rythmik FV-15HP.

The FV15HP is $1400 with shipping. Ported or sealed? A really nice sealed sub is the XS30 from PSA, it only costs $1150 shipped. Its a great value IMO.

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post #5 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The FV15HP is $1400 with shipping. Ported or sealed? A really nice sealed sub is the XS30 from PSA, it only costs $1150 shipped. Its a great value IMO.

Thanks for the PSA recommendation
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post #6 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 10:39 AM
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I have dual PSA XV-30's and if you have the room, they will not disappoint.
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post #7 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I have dual PSA XV-30's and if you have the room, they will not disappoint.

I bet not...I have dual xv15's hitting 115db @ 15hz(sine wave test) in a 2400^3 room. couldnt imagine dual xv30's unless the room was 5000^3.
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post #8 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I bet not...I have dual xv15's hitting 115db @ 15hz(sine wave test) in a 2400^3 room. couldnt imagine dual xv30's unless the room was 5000^3.

My room will be between 1800-2000. So, you think dual xv30s will be too much?
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post #9 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 03:38 PM
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+1 PSA if you don't mind it's asthetics
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post #10 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

My room will be between 1800-2000. So, you think dual xv30s will be too much?

Well if I can hit 132db(Im getting a healthy gain in the 30hz region) with 2xv15's in a 2400^3 room that has a 6ft opening, I would say the dual xv30's might be overkill. All depends on how much output and headroom you desire. Most folks here are running way over kill with their subs...also just a fyi, you can get 4 xv15's for roughly 200.00 more than 2 xv30's and would have significantly more output, easier to move, and give the ability to smooth the bass response out further. Imo the xv15 offers tremendous output for the cost.
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post #11 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Rythmik FV-15HP single or dual something else? I can probably swing 3 SVS PB-1000 for the price of a Rythmik FV-15HP.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Well if I can hit 132db(Im getting a healthy gain in the 30hz region) with 2xv15's in a 2400^3 room that has a 6ft opening, I would say the dual xv30's might be overkill. You would be looking at over 120db in the 15-20hz range and possibly up to 138db depending on room gain above 30hz. All depends on how much output and headroom you desire. Most folks here are running way over kill with their subs...also just a fyi, you can get 4 xv15's for roughly 200.00 more than 2 xv30's and would have significantly more output, easier to move, and give the ability to smooth the bass response out further. Imo the xv15 offers tremendous output for the cost.

Blee0120,

 

Keep in mind, specific room output is all relative. For example, if basshead81 had a single Rythmik FV15HP in his room, he could hit the same 132db at 30hz, 115db at 15hz, and extend to depths that the XV15 cannot and likely hit 12.5hz at around 109db! 

 

You would likely not be able to smooth your response as well as 2 XV15s, but like basshead, some people don't like flat responses. If you're in that boat, the FV15HP may be a better choice. 

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post #12 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Blee0120,

Keep in mind, specific room output is all relative. For example, if basshead81 had a single Rythmik FV15HP in his room, he could hit the same 132db at 30hz, 115db at 15hz, and extend to depths that the XV15 cannot and likely hit 12.5hz at around 109db! 

You would likely not be able to smooth your response as well as 2 XV15s, but like basshead, some people don't like flat responses. If you're in that boat, the FV15HP may be a better choice. 

Its not that I do not like a flat response. I simply do not have a eq setup yet. Not everybody has the time and disposable income to dial in a system in a matter of days. My objective is to tame the peak and obtain a slow rise from 100-20hz +5db or so...and yes the I am getting extension down to 12.5hz....108db. I have no distortion figures, don't really care. I agree the Rythmik FV15HP is a superior sub...

Also to touch up on smoothing response with multiple subs... Multiple subs will smooth the response out across the seating areas. However it does not mean they will tame a peak. My massive 30hz peak has more to do with my room acoustics. 1,2,or3 subs will not cure that. However my 2 xv15's are allowing me to achieve those numbers across all seating positions, which I highly doubt 1 FV15HP can do. Yes it will perform the same at one seating position but what about the others?
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post #13 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Well if I can hit 132db(Im getting a healthy gain in the 30hz region) with 2xv15's in a 2400^3 room that has a 6ft opening, I would say the dual xv30's might be overkill. All depends on how much output and headroom you desire. Most folks here are running way over kill with their subs...also just a fyi, you can get 4 xv15's for roughly 200.00 more than 2 xv30's and would have significantly more output, easier to move, and give the ability to smooth the bass response out further. Imo the xv15 offers tremendous output for the cost.

Curious...why do you believe that 4 XV15s would have significantly more output?

 

In real world application, I would think they would have less (generally speaking). 1 XV30 is like 2 stacked XV15s, less 1db or so. Taking into consideration that you wouldn't stack the XV15s and therefore not benefit from the coupling 6db increase, 4 XV15s would likely be equal or less output than 2 XV30s.

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post #14 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Curious...why do you believe that 4 XV15s would have significantly more output?

In real world application, I would think they would have less (generally speaking). 1 XV30 is like 2 stacked XV15s, less 1db or so. Taking into consideration that you wouldn't stack the XV15s and therefore not benefit from the coupling 6db increase, 4 XV15s would likely be equal or less output than 2 XV30s.


Why not ask Tom who builds the subs? 4 xv15's would be 2000watts rms of power vs 1500. 2 subs within a wave length 3m or less will see a 4-6db gain... 2xv30's would be 117db from 20-31hz @ 2m...4 xv15's would be anywhere form 120-126db from 20-31hz @ 2m depending on location.


Fwiw Tom even told Rayinst(I believe that is his screen name) that 3 xv15's co located 120db(side by side by side) would have more output than 2 xv30's co located(side by side) 117db 20-31hz @ 2m.
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post #15 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Why not ask Tom who builds the subs? 4 xv15's would be 2000watts rms of power vs 1500. 2 subs within a wave length 3m or less will see a 4-6db gain... 2xv30's would be 117db from 20-31hz @ 2m...4 xv15's would be anywhere form 120-126db from 20-31hz @ 2m depending on location.

Not trying to get into your grill...but this is avScience and not Amazon reviews. Just trying to understand your logic as it doesn't seem to foot to me.

 

With every doubling of power, you get a up to a 3db increase.

 

With every doubling of cone surface area, you get up to a 3db increase.

 

A sub with twice the surface area and twice the power would have a max increase of 6db (excluding any room or boundry gain) since it shares the same space.

 

An XV30 has twice the surface area of an XV15, and is coupled. Compared to stacked XV15s, all would be equal, except the XV30 would be 250w short. This equates to the stacked XV15 having 33% more power than the XV30 and equal the surface area, or approximately 1db more output.

 

Decoupling the stacked XV15 in typical rooms, you would not benefit from the full coupling effect, and not achieve the full 6 db. Again, depending on distance, you probably closer to a 3-4 db increase. Compared to the XV30, you would have less output than the decoupled XV15.

 

Doubling the example above, would only widen the margin of the XV30 from an output perspective.

 

This is my understanding of the science. If I'm all wet, someone let me know...

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post #16 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Not trying to get into your grill...but this is avScience and not Amazon reviews. Just trying to understand your logic as it doesn't seem to foot to me.

With every doubling of power, you get a up to a 3db increase. Yes when adding more power to the same speake or sub.

With every doubling of cone surface area, you get up to a 3db increase.

A sub with twice the surface area and twice the power would have a max increase of 6db (excluding any room or boundry gain) since it shares the same space.

An XV30 has twice the surface area of an XV15, and is coupled. Compared to stacked XV15s, all would be equal, except the XV30 would be 250w short. This equates to the stacked XV15 having 33% more power than the XV30 and equal the surface area, or approximately 1db more output.Yes but each sub is in its own enclosure, your dealing with 2 amps, 2 4" ports, different tuning.

Decoupling the stacked XV15 in typical rooms, you would not benefit from the full coupling effect, and not achieve the full 6 db. Again, depending on distance, you probably closer to a 3-4 db increase. Compared to the XV30, you would have less output than the decoupled XV15.hince why I added 4db to each added xv15

Doubling the example above, would only widen the margin of the XV30 from an output perspective.

This is my understanding of the science. If I'm all wet, someone let me know...sounds like you need to get a chamois and dry off tongue.gif

Lol you just proved me right...

1 xv15 is rated at 108 db 20-31hz @ 2m. Add 3 more xv15's you will gain another 12db colocation equaling 120db.

1 xv30 is rated at 111db 30-31hz @ 2m. Add 1 more xv30 and you gain another 4db colocation equaling 115db.
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post #17 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:25 PM
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This is not adding up. You can't add 6 dBs per doubling of subs and not do the same thing for the other sub. They both would gain 6 dBs max with doubling the amount of subs. What I don't get is why would the double woofer sub only be 3 dBs more? Adding another driver alone gets you 3 dBs so what you are saying is that the amp is the same for the dual woofer sub as the single? If this is the case Tom should really add a bigger amp to get the full output. Unless of course these are different drivers or the box design is different enough where doubling of power would overdrive the dual woofers(bigger box enclosure) when compared to the single. Either way I think I would rather have the 4 singles anyways and especially if this is true.
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post #18 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Lol you just proved me right...

1 xv15 is rated at 108 db 20-31hz @ 2m. Add 3 more xv15's you will gain another 12db no colocation equaling 120db.

1 xv30 is rated at 111db 30-31hz @ 2m. Add 1 more xv30 and you gain another 4d no colocation equaling 115db.

Wrong math.

 

1 xv15 is rated at 108.1

1 xv30 is rated at 111.9

 

This is a 3.8db difference, or almost 4db difference.

 

3 more xv15s are NOT 12db more without colocation. If we assume 4db increase for every doubling of power/surface area of non-colocated subs:

 

1 xv15 = 108.1, 2 xv15s = 112.1, 4 xv15s = 116.1db

 

1 xv30 = 111.9, 2 xv30s = 115.9db

 

So according to the above, they would have pretty much the same output (.2db difference), but the XV15s would cost 200 more and take up almost twice the space. In any case, it's far from significant.

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post #19 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Wrong math.

1 xv15 is rated at 108.1
1 xv30 is rated at 111.9

This is a 3.8db difference, or almost 4db difference.

3 more xv15s are NOT 12db more without colocation. If we assume 4db increase for every doubling of power/surface area of non-colocated subs:

1 xv15 = 108.1, 2 xv15s = 112.1, 3 xv15's =116.1, 4 xv15's =120.1
1 xv30 = 111.9, 2 xv30s = 115.9db

So according to the above, they would have pretty much the same output (.2db difference), but the XV15s would cost 200 more. In any case, it's far from significant.



Im not arguing with ya...again contact Tom who builds the subs.

4 xv15's have 500 more watts, 4 x 4" ports, and a significantly bigger enclosure per sub. if you think thats only going to be a .2db difference your mistaken.
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post #20 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:37 PM
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Well either way you look at it there is a 2 dBs difference from each other so saving $200 for 2 dBs is maybe worth it, unless you need that 2 dBs to not compress.
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post #21 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:43 PM
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The reason is because the XV-30 does not use double the power. Still if one buys 4 singles for smoothing purposes and not max spl that 2 dBs difference can disappear. I have always been able to get smoothing and max spl with enough subs.
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post #22 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:44 PM
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Wrong math.

1 xv15 is rated at 108.1
1 xv30 is rated at 111.9

This is a 3.8db difference, or almost 4db difference.

3 more xv15s are NOT 12db more without colocation. If we assume 4db increase for every doubling of power/surface area of non-colocated subs:

1 xv15 = 108.1, 2 xv15s = 112.1, 3 xv15's =116.1, 4 xv15's =120.1
1 xv30 = 111.9, 2 xv30s = 115.9db

So according to the above, they would have pretty much the same output (.2db difference), but the XV15s would cost 200 more. In any case, it's far from significant.
 

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


your math is wrong. 4 xv15's = 120db

Im not arguing with ya...again contact Tom who builds the subs.

Wrong again.

 

Explain how you get a 4 db increase going from 2 xv15s to 3 xv15s? You need twice the surface area/power to get the 4db in the example above. Adding an additional xv15 to a room that already has two xv15s, is only a 50% increase.

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post #23 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:49 PM
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+3db colocated..

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post #24 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Wrong again.

Explain how you get a 4 db increase going from 2 xv15s to 3 xv15s? You need twice the surface area/power to get the 4db in the example above. Adding an additional xv15 to a room that already has two xv15s, is only a 50% increase, or 2db in this example.

again it depends on how you place them.
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post #25 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:04 PM
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Well if one 15 gets 108 dBs, then two would get 114 dBs max. Adding two more or 4 would get you 120 dBs max. Now one 30 gets you 112 dBs and adding a second gets you 118 dBs max. Again this is 2 dBs difference. If the 30 had double the power of the single than they would be identical, 4 singles vs 2 doubles. Still, using 4 singles does not automatically mean you will have 2 dBs more output unless they are in phase and colocated properly. If one spreads them out for smoothing then you will not get max spl but that goes for the double as well.
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post #26 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:16 PM
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If one spreads them out for smoothing then you will not get max spl but that goes for the double as well.
Yes..

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post #27 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well if one 15 gets 108 dBs, then two would get 114 dBs max. Adding two more or 4 would get you 120 dBs max. Now one 30 gets you 112 dBs and adding a second gets you 118 dBs max. Again this is 2 dBs difference. If the 30 had double the power of the single than they would be identical, 4 singles vs 2 doubles. Still, using 4 singles does not automatically mean you will have 2 dBs more output unless they are in phase and colocated properly. If one spreads them out for smoothing then you will not get max spl but that goes for the double as well.

Correct.

 

The difference here is that we're not comparing 4 stacked XV15s to 2 stacked XV30s. The assumption is that they are all non-colocated to where the max gain is 4db per doubling of power/surface area. That being the case, it's only a .2db difference as I explained above.

 

But let's assume for example purposes that they were stacked...2db difference is far from up to a 9db difference as basshead mentions below.

Quote:
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Why not ask Tom who builds the subs? 4 xv15's would be 2000watts rms of power vs 1500. 2 subs within a wave length 3m or less will see a 4-6db gain... 2xv30's would be 117db from 20-31hz @ 2m...4 xv15's would be anywhere form 120-126db from 20-31hz @ 2m depending on location.
 
 
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post #28 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Correct.

The difference here is that we're not comparing 4 stacked XV15s to 2 stacked XV30s. The assumption is that they are all non-colocated to where the max gain is 4db per doubling of power/surface area. That being the case, it's only a .2db difference as I explained above.

But let's assume for example purposes that they were stacked...2db difference is far from up to a 9db difference as basshead mentions below.
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my point remains, 4 xv15's have more output then 2 xv30's by 2.2db according to mktheatre. also they do not have to be stacked, they just need to be in the same wave length and in phase.

oh and great job steering this thread way off track. all my initial point was that 2 xv30's may be overkill for the op's needs since he specifically asked ME for MY opinion. wink.gif
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post #29 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 09:55 PM
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OP, sorry for the derailment.

 

Believe it or not, I'm actually a big fan of PSA; particularly with the XV15 and XS30. Great value for sure. I would recommend PSA in a heartbeat. But as you probably already know, fairy dust doesn't work in AVS...and folks are quick to point out fact from fiction.

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post #30 of 84 Old 05-14-2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

OP, sorry for the derailment.

Believe it or not, I'm actually a big fan of PSA; particularly with the XV15 and XS30. Great value for sure. I would recommend PSA in a heartbeat. But as you probably already know, fairy dust doesn't work in AVS...and folks are quick to point out fact from fiction.

there is no fairy dust bud...i said 4 xv15's would have more output than 2 xv30's as a side note that had nothing to do with my intitial point. mktheatre confirmed that theory by 2.2db margin. i admit my numbers were a wide variance because i did not know the exact figures. however you initially said the xv15's would have equal or less output. now just man up and admit you were wrong!! do you have paypal? ill buy ya a beer so you can relax. smile.gif
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