HSU ULS-15, no love? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


@ 15hz a single uls 15 will not play over 90db without bottoming out. Several have reported this issue including the gtg last year. If you set the eq to 50hz mode it appears to fix the problem but then there is no 15hz extension.

Not entirely true BH but in certain setups the ULS-15 will bottom out if the settings are not optimized. Now to be honest the ULS-15 truly shines when they are bought in multiples. This way the gain does not need to be set as high for the required output in medium to large rooms. This was one of the reasons why Dr. Hsu offer discounts on multiple subs


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post #92 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Not entirely true BH but in certain setups the ULS-15 will bottom out if the settings are not optimized. Now to be honest the ULS-15 truly shines when they are bought in multiples. This way the gain does not need to be set as high for the required output in medium to large rooms. This was one of the reasons why Dr. Hsu offer discounts on multiple subs

please show me some measurements of a single uls 15 putting out more than 90db @ 15hz? Several have reported this now...some have even tried adding inline filters to combat the problem with no luck. Read the article at the 2012 gtg. It seems the uls is a awsome sub for music but it will stuggle in HT during the deep passages trying to maintain a linear response.
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post #93 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 12:34 PM
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Easy son, not looking for a fight. Maybe re-read my post where I talked about multiples. I can reach 90 dBs at 15 Hz in my room using 3 ULS-15s spread out in an asymmetrical pattern without bottoming out. I have been on this site for a lot longer than you and have been very interested with all things regarding subwoofers so yes I have read that 2012 article when it was posted in 2012. A single ULS-15 in a normal size room will struggle with HT duties but not when one is using multiples. That is the point I am trying to get across.  


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post #94 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 01:07 PM
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That sounds about right for that driver outdoor or he's getting no room gains. I wouldn't use seal subs in a wide one floor plan even in multiples for ht. for music it won't matter.
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post #95 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Easy son, not looking for a fight. Maybe re-read my post where I talked about multiples. I can reach 90 dBs at 15 Hz in my room using 3 ULS-15s spread out in an asymmetrical pattern without bottoming out. I have been on this site for a lot longer than you and have been very interested with all things regarding subwoofers so yes I have read that 2012 article when it was posted in 2012. A single ULS-15 in a normal size room will struggle with HT duties but not when one is using multiples. That is the point I am trying to get across.  

At about $2200 for dual ULS-15's with shipping IMO there's better options for HT use.
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post #96 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 01:23 PM
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And as always you are free to express your opinion. I listen to music as much as I watch movies so I wanted to spend the extra money for something that would perform equally well. So right now I am up to 3K on subwoofers. I have one of the original models that had real walnut wood veneer which looks very nice in a family room setting. Well actually 4K with a old Velodyne sub I use more as a transducer that resides between our recliners.   If I can afford the outlay for the subs why would that be an issue with you?


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post #97 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by User5910 View Post

Me too. I just got a reply from Hsu on the subject:
It's funny the that say "around", why not a firm number like their other amps? It's also strange that most of the subwoofer amp specs I see make no mention of the impedance at which they're rated, like most every other (reputable) audio amplifier.

Hi User5910,

We rated our amplifier for the ULS-15 conservatively at 500w, but it can swing up to 600w RMS under 4 ohm load.

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post #98 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 02:10 PM
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That's a good point which I didn't think of, the drivers won't draw a linear amount of power throughout its frequency response due to the impedance variation at different frequencies.
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post #99 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Easy son, not looking for a fight. Maybe re-read my post where I talked about multiples. I can reach 90 dBs at 15 Hz in my room using 3 ULS-15s spread out in an asymmetrical pattern without bottoming out. I have been on this site for a lot longer than you and have been very interested with all things regarding subwoofers so yes I have read that 2012 article when it was posted in 2012. A single ULS-15 in a normal size room will struggle with HT duties but not when one is using multiples. That is the point I am trying to get across.  

Ummmm you were the one that said I was incorrect...I sure hope 3 would get there and thats really not impressive anyway. Fwiw we were talking about a single until you butted in. Great you have been on the forum longer, excuse me o thy holy one. If you have been around much recently you would of read several folks have reported the bottoming out issue. Besides a sealed sub should never bottom out anyway. Hsu recomended the ULS15 for music when I contacted them and the VTF15 for HT or a combination. So I have no faults with them as they do know what they are doing. However its obvious some look at the ULS15 specs and think they are going to get good output down to 15hz with a single and thats not the case. Proper research would support that but not everybody does, so perhaps the response rating should be changed or there should be a notation next to the ULS15 specs addressing these issues.
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post #100 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 04:24 PM
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Proper research would support that but not everybody does, so perhaps the response rating should be changed or there should be a notation next to the ULS15 specs addressing these issues.

^^ +1 I would have to agree with you sonny biggrin.gif Ok lets look at post count wink.gif

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post #101 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 05:23 PM
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I was kind of wondering how the whole "I've been on this site longer then you" was even relevant to this thread....lol
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post #102 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Ummmm you were the one that said I was incorrect...I sure hope 3 would get there and thats really not impressive anyway. Fwiw we were talking about a single until you butted in. Great you have been on the forum longer, excuse me o thy holy one. If you have been around much recently you would of read several folks have reported the bottoming out issue. Besides a sealed sub should never bottom out anyway. Hsu recomended the ULS15 for music when I contacted them and the VTF15 for HT or a combination. So I have no faults with them as they do know what they are doing. However its obvious some look at the ULS15 specs and think they are going to get good output down to 15hz with a single and thats not the case. Proper research would support that but not everybody does, so perhaps the response rating should be changed or there should be a notation next to the ULS15 specs addressing these issues.

You do seem to have a problem comprehending the English language. I never said you were incorrect. I said  the sub would not bottom out if setup correctly.  I have helped some of the users who had bottoming out issues in the past and we were able to correct the issues with proper settings on both the subs and AVRs. However I have not been on AVS for awhile to help the newest users with their problems.  It's unfortunate that some buyers did not do their research and realize that a single ULS-15 would not be enough to reach reference levels in their setups using just one ULS-15.   I also find it interesting where you want to trash a single USL-15 for not being capable of producing a 15 hz tone at 90 dBs when you yourself are now up to 3 VX-15s in your system and posted a graph that shows all 3 are incapable of doing even 85 dBs @ 15hZ.

 


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post #103 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

You do seem to have a problem comprehending the English language. I never said you were incorrect. I said  the sub would not bottom out if setup correctly.  I have helped some of the users who had bottoming out issues in the past and we were able to correct the issues with proper settings on both the subs and AVRs. However I have not been on AVS for awhile to help the newest users with their problems.  It's unfortunate that some buyers did not do their research and realize that a single ULS-15 would not be enough to reach reference levels in their setups using just one ULS-15.   I also find it interesting where you want to trash a single USL-15 for not being capable of producing a 15 hz tone at 90 dBs when you yourself are now up to 3 VX-15s in your system and posted a graph that shows all 3 are incapable of doing even 85 dBs @ 15hZ.



Nice try but that was not max spl!

Here is a max spl graph of my dual xv15's before i added the third. Actually There was still 3db of headroom left, I didnt want to run a sweep at the subs limits.




I was not trashing anything, just stating what others have posted...
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post #104 of 134 Old 08-27-2013, 11:22 PM
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I was not trashing anything, just stating what others have posted...

I’m not sure of the count but it seems like we have tried to help 3-4 different guys lately. I know it was just a few days ago I was up late and a ULS user posted asking for help. This isn’t a trash the ULS kind of thing, there really seems to be a problem here. They also have came here after contacting HSU. OH! and I'm not talking 15hz, just plain LFE +-.

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post #105 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

You do seem to have a problem comprehending the English language. I never said you were incorrect. I said  the sub would not bottom out if setup correctly.  I have helped some of the users who had bottoming out issues in the past and we were able to correct the issues with proper settings on both the subs and AVRs. However I have not been on AVS for awhile to help the newest users with their problems.  It's unfortunate that some buyers did not do their research and realize that a single ULS-15 would not be enough to reach reference levels in their setups using just one ULS-15.   I also find it interesting where you want to trash a single USL-15 for not being capable of producing a 15 hz tone at 90 dBs when you yourself are now up to 3 VX-15s in your system and posted a graph that shows all 3 are incapable of doing even 85 dBs @ 15hZ.



Well, I happen to be one of the people that have had this problem. And yes, I did a lot of research. I always research. Sure, there is always the possibility that I didn't set up the Hsu 100 percent properly. But here's the deal. I don't want multiple subs. I don't need multiple subs. I wanted one sub and I wanted it to perform as advertised. There was nothing in the Hsu literature that stated that two or three ULS-15s are required or it would bottom out. For movie LFE, I thought the ULS-15 did a great job and I was very impressed … until I played a few scenes from Battlestar Galactica (of all things). I guess I was lucky that I selected this movie, because I was in the last week of my home trial period. That's when the Hsu coughed up big time and did so loudly and continuously. Shocking and nasty are the words that come to mind. Gee, I must have really been blasting out the dBs. Well if mid to high 80dB peaks, and all the way up to 90 dB peaks is blasting, then yeah, I blasted it (and yes, I checked it with a dB meter). Almost all the other movies I tested, I didn't have this problem (although I thought I heard an odd sound on one or two other movies I played, but really didn't think much of it at the time because it wasn't very noticeable). Sadly, I took the ULS-15 back to Hsu Research, and explained in detail what had happened and where and what movie that the unit failed.

I obviously set up the SVS SB13-Ultra and the PSA XS30 properly, because they sailed through those scenes with nary a problem … not even a twitch. I feel that it may be a combination of the Hsu's default EQ boost along with the analog limiter that just isn't working the way it was intended. And I do hope Dr. Hsu looks into this problem, because it could be a really terrific subwoofer.
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post #106 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Well, I happen to be one of the people that have had this problem. And yes, I did a lot of research. I always research. Sure, there is always the possibility that I didn't set up the Hsu 100 percent properly. But here's the deal. I don't want multiple subs. I don't need multiple subs. I wanted one sub and I wanted it to perform as advertised. There was nothing in the Hsu literature that stated that two or three ULS-15s are required or it would bottom out. For movie LFE, I thought the ULS-15 did a great job and I was very impressed … until I played a few scenes from Battlestar Galactica (of all things). I guess I was lucky that I selected this movie, because I was in the last week of my home trial period. That's when the Hsu coughed up big time and did so loudly and continuously. Shocking and nasty are the words that come to mind. Gee, I must have really been blasting out the dBs. Well if mid to high 80dB peaks, and all the way up to 90 dB peaks is blasting, then yeah, I blasted it (and yes, I checked it with a dB meter). Almost all the other movies I tested, I didn't have this problem (although I thought I heard an odd sound on one or two other movies I played, but really didn't think much of it at the time because it wasn't very noticeable). Sadly, I took the ULS-15 back to Hsu Research, and explained in detail what had happened and where and what movie that the unit failed.

I obviously set up the SVS SB13-Ultra and the PSA XS30 properly, because they sailed through those scenes with nary a problem … not even a twitch. I feel that it may be a combination of the Hsu's default EQ boost along with the analog limiter that just isn't working the way it was intended. And I do hope Dr. Hsu looks into this problem, because it could be a really terrific subwoofer.

dsrussell, so I have to ask because you've heard both and a certain forum member likes to bring up the fact that a lot of other ID subs will have better sound quality the anything PSA makes because of poor drivers.
So how does the ULS-15 compare to the XS30?
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post #107 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 03:02 AM
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dsrussell, so I have to ask because you've heard both and a certain forum member likes to bring up the fact that a lot of other ID subs will have better sound quality the anything PSA makes because of poor drivers.
So how does the ULS-15 compare to the XS30?

Hi jbrown.

Hmmm, you must be referring to shadyJ;). Actually, I really respect shadyJ's opinions … well … most of the time:) He's very knowledgable, but like anyone of us, he has his preferences and prejudices. But it's okay that he's not a fan of PSA. All that matters is how you like it (or in my case, how I like it).

I'm in my third week of evaluating the XS30, and plan to post a short review (or synopsis really) on what I think about the XS30 vs my SB13-Ultra on the product review section of this website. However, I will say the following:

I really liked the Hsu LFE capability. For such a small subwoofer, it performed very impressively, and if I hadn't run into several problems, especially the bottoming out problem, it would be in my TV room today. That being said, comparing the Hsu ULS-15 to the PSA XS30, really isn't a fair comparison, although money-wise, they are almost the same price. As you know, jbrown, the XS30 has a lot larger cabinet and has two 15-inch drivers (I think shadyJ called them "iffy" or something like that) vs one 15-inch driver in the ULS-15. So yes, the XS30 out performed the ULS-15's LFE capability by a readily discernible margin (in my home environment -- I can't say how they would perform in someone else's home environment). Musically, both subs are very similar, but I give a very slight nod to the XS30. Neither sub is up to the Ultra's capability musically (the Ultra is clearly at a whole new level as a musical sub).
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post #108 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 04:32 AM
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The only way to properly compare the sound quality of subs (or any speaker really) is by an A/B comparison, quickly switching between subs in the middle of a sound. Acoustic memory is not very useful unless the difference is dramatic, so the switching has to be done within a sound, not later. A lot of music also isn't good material to compare subs because bass lines are typically clean, usually consisting of single notes or a simple chords. Most subs can do that well enough. Percussion can be a bit better for comparison, depending on the percussive instrument and recording. In my experience, the best material to compare subs is complex sounds using a wide range of low frequency sounds. Earthquakes are good, volcanoes, trains, severe storm type sounds, heavy traffic, and so on. That is the sort of material which can easily illustrate the difference between a tightly controlled cone and a loosely controlled one.
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post #109 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The only way to properly compare the sound quality of subs (or any speaker really) is by an A/B comparison, quickly switching between subs in the middle of a sound. Acoustic memory is not very useful unless the difference is dramatic, so the switching has to be done within a sound, not later. A lot of music also isn't good material to compare subs because bass lines are typically clean, usually consisting of single notes or a simple chords. Most subs can do that well enough. Percussion can be a bit better for comparison, depending on the percussive instrument and recording. In my experience, the best material to compare subs is complex sounds using a wide range of low frequency sounds. Earthquakes are good, volcanoes, trains, severe storm type sounds, heavy traffic, and so on. That is the sort of material which can easily illustrate the difference between a tightly controlled cone and a loosely controlled one.

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post #110 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The only way to properly compare the sound quality of subs (or any speaker really) is by an A/B comparison, quickly switching between subs in the middle of a sound. Acoustic memory is not very useful unless the difference is dramatic, so the switching has to be done within a sound, not later. A lot of music also isn't good material to compare subs because bass lines are typically clean, usually consisting of single notes or a simple chords. Most subs can do that well enough. Percussion can be a bit better for comparison, depending on the percussive instrument and recording. In my experience, the best material to compare subs is complex sounds using a wide range of low frequency sounds. Earthquakes are good, volcanoes, trains, severe storm type sounds, heavy traffic, and so on. That is the sort of material which can easily illustrate the difference between a tightly controlled cone and a loosely controlled one.

Shady at least he's heard both subs in his house, you make claims about how tons of other subs will sound better then PSA subs because of there drivers yet you still haven't heard any of them. So in all fairness at least he's heard them. wink.gif
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post #111 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The only way to properly compare the sound quality of subs (or any speaker really) is by an A/B comparison, quickly switching between subs in the middle of a sound. Acoustic memory is not very useful unless the difference is dramatic, so the switching has to be done within a sound, not later. A lot of music also isn't good material to compare subs because bass lines are typically clean, usually consisting of single notes or a simple chords. Most subs can do that well enough. Percussion can be a bit better for comparison, depending on the percussive instrument and recording. In my experience, the best material to compare subs is complex sounds using a wide range of low frequency sounds. Earthquakes are good, volcanoes, trains, severe storm type sounds, heavy traffic, and so on. That is the sort of material which can easily illustrate the difference between a tightly controlled cone and a loosely controlled one.

shadyJ. I'll just say that I respectfully disagree and leave it at that, but I did indeed do a direct comparison of the Hsu and SVS (I auditioned them at the same time). However, I will say that one cannot compare critical listening of music to enjoying a movie with lots of LFE content and explosions. They are simply completely different animals.
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post #112 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 11:18 AM
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Years ago (wow, maybe 2007 now!?) I attended a blind subwoofer shootout where we painfully used an SMS-1 to try and get the FR for the 5 different subs (SVS PB13, JL F113, Axiom EP600, Velodyne DD-18 ... and another I think that I'm forgetting) as close as possible before 1 individual used a switch in a dark HT to flip through the various subs for various tracks.

I can say the sonic signatures (even though some were ported, others sealed), were not easy at all to ascertain at normal listening levels. Once stressed, some made awful noises while others had more advanced limiters which kicked in (and made "different" noises), but in any event, one could tell which subs were stressing the same way (not that we knew which was which during the test, only that the "farting" sound of the driver when pushed beyond its limits were the same).

It was a humbling experience trying to write down on paper which we thought "sounded" the best at normal levels given we had to choose from "Sub A" vs "b" vs "C" etc, and couldn't see the brand name or which one we spent our dollars on. In many scenes it was an absolute toss of a coin amongst several. As a matter of fact, if I recall, The only sub that consistently under-performed was the DD-18, and low and behold it turned out that sub was setup incorrectly. So all of this is just to say I'd agree it's darn near impossible to say one sub sounds better than another even though they were in the same room and were specifically EQ'd to try and mimic the FR across their operating ranges. If subs weren't setup to have similar responses in room across their bandwidths and level matched (even 1-2db could sway you differently), then comparing them in the same room is fairly meaningless unfortunately (like the DD18).

Other than the above drivel, I have very little else to say on the subject.

Oh, that and the fact that the S"V"S vs HSU wars are back again is humorous ... oh, I mean PSA vs HSU.. tongue.gif

 

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post #113 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Years ago (wow, maybe 2007 now!?) I attended a blind subwoofer shootout where we painfully used an SMS-1 to try and get the FR for the 5 different subs (SVS PB13, JL F113, Axiom EP600, Velodyne DD-18 ... and another I think that I'm forgetting) as close as possible before 1 individual used a switch in a dark HT to flip through the various subs for various tracks.

I can say the sonic signatures (even though some were ported, others sealed), were not easy at all to ascertain at normal listening levels. Once stressed, some made awful noises while others had more advanced limiters which kicked in (and made "different" noises), but in any event, one could tell which subs were stressing the same way (not that we knew which was which during the test, only that the "farting" sound of the driver when pushed beyond its limits were the same).

It was a humbling experience trying to write down on paper which we thought "sounded" the best at normal levels given we had to choose from "Sub A" vs "b" vs "C" etc, and couldn't see the brand name or which one we spent our dollars on. In many scenes it was an absolute toss of a coin amongst several. As a matter of fact, if I recall, The only sub that consistently under-performed was the DD-18, and low and behold it turned out that sub was setup incorrectly. So all of this is just to say I'd agree it's darn near impossible to say one sub sounds better than another even though they were in the same room and were specifically EQ'd to try and mimic the FR across their operating ranges. If subs weren't setup to have similar responses in room across their bandwidths and level matched (even 1-2db could sway you differently), then comparing them in the same room is fairly meaningless unfortunately (like the DD18).

Other than the above drivel, I have very little else to say on the subject.

Oh, that and the fact that the S"V"S vs HSU wars are back again is humorous ... oh, I mean PSA vs HSU.. tongue.gif

Blind tests are great. No arguing that. However, each subwoofer shootout gives the impressions of the various listeners and then each sub is rated. I don't think I've ever read a shootout that had a virtual tie with all the participating subs;).
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post #114 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 12:57 PM
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I just want to set everyone straight about the October GTG.

I was the one that brought the ULS-15. The receiver we were using to calibrate with had a full range pink noise used to level calibrate. (For level calibrations we were calibrating to 90db at some frequency I don't remember (>50hz))

The EQ that the ULS-15 employs made the <15hz pink noise get boosted way way too high for it and was causing it to bottom out and make mechanical noises.....


I also am the one that made the content mix for that get together. I analyzed all of the content and we had lots of 5hz 7hz and 13hz content being played through out the mix. When the ULS-15 tried to play these the EQ made it do the same bottoming out mechanical noise....

I am of the belief that multiple of the ULS-15 would sound amazing.... but I haven't had the chance to hear that yet.
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post #115 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Hi jbrown.

Hmmm, you must be referring to shadyJ;). Actually, I really respect shadyJ's opinions … well … most of the time:) He's very knowledgable, but like anyone of us, he has his preferences and prejudices. But it's okay that he's not a fan of PSA. All that matters is how you like it (or in my case, how I like it).

I'm in my third week of evaluating the XS30, and plan to post a short review (or synopsis really) on what I think about the XS30 vs my SB13-Ultra on the product review section of this website. However, I will say the following:

I really liked the Hsu LFE capability. For such a small subwoofer, it performed very impressively, and if I hadn't run into several problems, especially the bottoming out problem, it would be in my TV room today. That being said, comparing the Hsu ULS-15 to the PSA XS30, really isn't a fair comparison, although money-wise, they are almost the same price. As you know, jbrown, the XS30 has a lot larger cabinet and has two 15-inch drivers (I think shadyJ called them "iffy" or something like that) vs one 15-inch driver in the ULS-15. So yes, the XS30 out performed the ULS-15's LFE capability by a readily discernible margin (in my home environment -- I can't say how they would perform in someone else's home environment). Musically, both subs are very similar, but I give a very slight nod to the XS30. Neither sub is up to the Ultra's capability musically (the Ultra is clearly at a whole new level as a musical sub).

So basically you're saying for music use both are close but you give the edge to the XS30, and for HT use its not really even a fair fight and the XS30 wins?
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post #116 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So basically you're saying for music use both are close but you give the edge to the XS30, and for HT use its not really even a fair fight and the XS30 wins?

You're a tough customer, jbrown;). Okay, you asked for it ….

Both the XS30 and Hsu sounded virtually identical on one particular Mike Oldfield track. That surprised me. Why? Both were far inferior to the Ultra on that same track and both suffered the same malady. With the Ultra, out of the depth of nowhere came this tight, deep, wall shaking beat … and I do mean wall-shaking and picture rattling! I actually jumped when I first heard it, simply because I had never heard it before and wasn't expecting it (I've played this CD many times prior to buying the Ultra). I played that track for my girlfriend and she jumped as well. Then I had my son come over (he's very familiar with Mike Oldfield). He didn't jump, but his eyes widened and he let out an audible, "wow!" Both the Hsu and XS30 reproduced that section with a weak and ineffective powder-puff of a beat, which wouldn't shock a mouse or wake up your cat. Mike Oldfield loves ultra-deep synthesized beats, sometimes as an underlayment to his music, sometimes for power, and only the Ultra could reproduce those to my satisfaction. On most other music both subs performed well to very well, especially the SACD of Saint-Saen's Organ Symphony. It was difficult to say which of the two performed better. The reason I gave the XS30 a slight edge is that I could dial in that worst offending CD better than I could with the Hsu. But doing so cause some of the underlying bass in Mike Oldfield's music to be over exaggerated. As long as you don't listen to Mike Oldfield, you should be very happy with either sub musically. Mike just happens to be one of my favorite artists.

In fairness to the Hsu and XS30, I did not critically listen to a hundred plus hours of music from several genres as I did with the Ultra. I doubt I listened critically for more than a dozen hours from each. There was no reason to. After a short test period with the Hsu, I knew I had my music sub in the Ultra (I auditioned them at the same time).

As far as movie LFE, picture yourself being very impressed by some of the deep, wall-shaking, chest-thumping moments in a movie. And I mean impressed to the point that you knew you just had to keep this subwoofer for your movies. There wasn't a doubt in your mind. You even feel excited anticipation for the next movie, wondering what would be in store. Then you find out there is a problem and you have to return this really great subwoofer. Extremely disappointed, you audition another sub with a bit of a jaundice eye. Now imagine yourself playing the exact same parts of these movies and an immediate surprise envelopes you. You are even more impressed with this unit! That's when you breathe a silent, "wow". Well that's my tale of two excellent movie LFE subwoofers and I'm sticking to it.

Again, in fairness to the Hsu, I did not write down the dB levels on the movies I tested it with. By me not doing so, I could only approximate the sound level (85 to 90 dB peaks). I measured the XS30 and got similar readings, but there is no way I can confirm that I played these subs at the same sound level.
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post #117 of 134 Old 08-28-2013, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

You're a tough customer, jbrown;). Okay, you asked for it ….

Both the XS30 and Hsu sounded virtually identical on one particular Mike Oldfield track. That surprised me. Why? Both were far inferior to the Ultra on that same track and both suffered the same malady. With the Ultra, out of the depth of nowhere came this tight, deep, wall shaking beat … and I do mean wall-shaking and picture rattling! I actually jumped when I first heard it, simply because I had never heard it before and wasn't expecting it (I've played this CD many times prior to buying the Ultra). I played that track for my girlfriend and she jumped as well. Then I had my son come over (he's very familiar with Mike Oldfield). He didn't jump, but his eyes widened and he let out an audible, "wow!" Both the Hsu and XS30 reproduced that section with a weak and ineffective powder-puff of a beat, which wouldn't shock a mouse or wake up your cat. Mike Oldfield loves ultra-deep synthesized beats, sometimes as an underlayment to his music, sometimes for power, and only the Ultra could reproduce those to my satisfaction. On most other music both subs performed well to very well, especially the SACD of Saint-Saen's Organ Symphony. It was difficult to say which of the two performed better. The reason I gave the XS30 a slight edge is that I could dial in that worst offending CD better than I could with the Hsu. But doing so cause some of the underlying bass in Mike Oldfield's music to be over exaggerated. As long as you don't listen to Mike Oldfield, you should be very happy with either sub musically. Mike just happens to be one of my favorite artists.

In fairness to the Hsu and XS30, I did not critically listen to a hundred plus hours of music from several genres as I did with the Ultra. I doubt I listened critically for more than a dozen hours from each. There was no reason to. After a short test period with the Hsu, I knew I had my music sub in the Ultra (I auditioned them at the same time).

As far as movie LFE, picture yourself being very impressed by some of the deep, wall-shaking, chest-thumping moments in a movie. And I mean impressed to the point that you knew you just had to keep this subwoofer for your movies. There wasn't a doubt in your mind. You even feel excited anticipation for the next movie, wondering what would be in store. Then you find out there is a problem and you have to return this really great subwoofer. Extremely disappointed, you audition another sub with a bit of a jaundice eye. Now imagine yourself playing the exact same parts of these movies and an immediate surprise envelopes you. You are even more impressed with this unit! That's when you breathe a silent, "wow". Well that's my tale of two excellent movie LFE subwoofers and I'm sticking to it.

Again, in fairness to the Hsu, I did not write down the dB levels on the movies I tested it with. By me not doing so, I could only approximate the sound level (85 to 90 dB peaks). I measured the XS30 and got similar readings, but there is no way I can confirm that I played these subs at the same sound level.

That's some great insight, thanks for posting that!
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post #118 of 134 Old 08-30-2013, 05:33 AM
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As far as movie LFE, picture yourself being very impressed by some of the deep, wall-shaking, chest-thumping moments in a movie. And I mean impressed to the point that you knew you just had to keep this subwoofer for your movies. There wasn't a doubt in your mind. You even feel excited anticipation for the next movie, wondering what would be in store. Then you find out there is a problem and you have to return this really great subwoofer. Extremely disappointed, you audition another sub with a bit of a jaundice eye. Now imagine yourself playing the exact same parts of these movies and an immediate surprise envelopes you. You are even more impressed with this unit! That's when you breathe a silent, "wow". Well that's my tale of two excellent movie LFE subwoofers and I'm sticking to it.

This is why I have been attracted to both sealed options in the past. I like the +- of both units, but of course they would need to stand up to the rigors of the aggressive dsp program. I had a sealed option in the past that had a +-2 at 18hz that I really liked and another much more capable 18” dual option that I can shape at will. Anyway nice informative post.

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post #119 of 134 Old 08-30-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

This is why I have been attracted to both sealed options in the past. I like the +- of both units, but of course they would need to stand up to the rigors of the aggressive dsp program. I had a sealed option in the past that had a +-2 at 18hz that I really liked and another much more capable 18” dual option that I can shape at will. Anyway nice informative post.

Dual 18-inch? Wow, what subwoofers do you own? Are they DIY?

I want to thank you and jbrown for the nice compliments.
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post #120 of 134 Old 08-31-2013, 09:32 PM
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*Re-ignites the fire*

It's easy to sit here and poke holes at HSU (and even SVS) subwoofer performance per dollar, but you guys keep forgetting to factor in security that you purchased a product that will be supported in the future.

I've been on these boards for 5 years, and we've seen some good subwoofers backed by questionable companies come and go....

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... and now it seems Epik.


Who's to say that PS or Rythmik arn't the next ED? It seems easy to undercut the prices of the 'old guard' internet direct subwoofer sellers, but they never leave themselves enough profit margin to make sure they can stay around when something goes wrong (which always seems to be a bad bunch of amps) . Just today I saw a thread where a guy who owns a Epik subwoofer isn't confident enough in the company to buy a second... so his first instincts are to go to PS and Rythmik. Two companies who are younger (less than 4 years) than the warranties they offer (5 years on woofer).The thread starter is still rolling the dice. Even though I'm a poker player, i'm not willing to spend a grand on an A/V component and not have some security that if the AMP goes bad, there's someone to help me... a 10% performance increase (maybe 15% or higher, you get the point) isn't worth the piece of mind of knowing that the company I purchased from isn't going down. Granted there's no guarentee that HSU isn't going down tomorrow, but they have a better track record than most ID subwoofer companies in this regard.

Now i'm not going to sit here and tell you as a ULS-15 dual drive owner that the ULS-15 is the best home theater subwoofer ever created, but for those who want a quality product with low extension in a small(ish... relative I know) footprint it's not to be overlooked.
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