Subwoofer sound - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I honestly cannot tell the difference between subs. I currently have a BIC H-100 sub and today and the day before I demoed the Rythmics and the Hsu's and they sound the same. It had a little more thump when I was demoing them, but thats because they had the volume pretty loud. I can turn up the volume on my BIC and they sound exactly the same.

QUestion, what does one look for when shopping for subs?
Brian323 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
In other words, what makes one sub a better sub than another? Please tell me in plain enlglish. None of the "hz" analogies.
Brian323 is offline  
post #3 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 04:37 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Actually you can tell the difference but the difference is "somewhat" subtle until you've "experienced" a system capable of playing it loud.

In plain English, what makes one subwoofer more "cool" over the other is how a subwoofer sounds when it's played "frequency deep" and "sonically loud" and is played in a room of many as opposed to a room of one.

In the short, the better one's system, the bigger one's smile factor and subwoofers are a visceral response.

In the end, subwoofers are a journey (or a hobby), not a sonic end.

(Just yesterday I came up with a new way to set our subwoofer system us so as to counteract the affects of our room's acoustics.)

It's all about the Benjamins and how many one has to throw at the subwoofer, quality based, question.

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #4 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 06:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1330
The 2 subs you mention will extend deeper and have more headroom with less distortion at high volume levels.
basshead81 is offline  
post #5 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 06:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

I honestly cannot tell the difference between subs.
You shouldn't be able to, assuming they have similar response. Nearly all of those factors that make different speakers sound different occur in the midbass and higher frequencies, not the sub bass. For the most part what makes more expensive subs more expensive is how much power they can handle before response gets non-linear, and/or how low they can go.
Quote:
Please tell me in plain enlglish. None of the "hz" analogies.
There are no "hz analogies". If one is to understand the differences between speakers one must understand the terminologies.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #6 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 06:33 AM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You shouldn't be able to, assuming they have similar response. Nearly all of those factors that make different speakers sound different occur in the midbass and higher frequencies, not the sub bass. For the most part what makes more expensive subs more expensive is how much power they can handle before response gets non-linear, and/or how low they can go.
There are no "hz analogies". If one is to understand the differences between speakers one must understand the terminologies.

And if one don't know "nough-thin," in the fiscal terms of one's budget.....$800.00 is a good place to start. And maybe, if one wishes to preemptively exceed their (to be dealt with) ignorance, $2,400.00 is a better plateau in which to set the fiscal needs the security of their Home Theater subwoofer system should bcome dependent on. And all-n-all, there's the "real" world where the majority of neophytes come from.

On the other end, the reality of a learning curve is an expensive ideal and in anybody's reality, one needs to answer the question which revolves around; for the question at hand, which end of the learning curve does one feel appropriate addressing?

-
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #7 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 07:42 AM
Senior Member
 
PretzelFisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

I honestly cannot tell the difference between subs. I currently have a BIC H-100 sub and today and the day before I demoed the Rythmics and the Hsu's and they sound the same. It had a little more thump when I was demoing them, but thats because they had the volume pretty loud. I can turn up the volume on my BIC and they sound exactly the same.

QUestion, what does one look for when shopping for subs?
What was your testing methodology?
PretzelFisch is offline  
post #8 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Well, I honestly had no idea what to look for when I first purchased a sub woofer. I understand what bass is, but didn't really put much thought into it purchasing until I read almost everyone recommending a sub woofer a must have for a home theatre.

After I got it, I played with the crossovers somewhat, and from what I can tell, subwoofers is really about ADDING to the sound. The very loud HUM that gets you envoloped. I think for the most part, sub woofers are only needed for envoloping the audience to the source and to make the soundstage fuller/bigger/wider. If this is the case and I am correct, I do not understand why people turn up their subwoofer LOUD in movies. The sub isnt supposed to stick out since then it takes away from its pripary goal, which is of envoloping the audience with neurtral response. It's not suppose to thump from the speakers (stand out) at all.

In other words, all subwoofers should only be heard at subtle levels. Primary goal being able to blend. Blending should be the most important goal for any subwoofer.

With music as well. If you are going for hip hop, then yeah its understood that a subwoofer CAN be turned up, since the priomary source of hip hop relies on REPEATED rythmic sounds, and the the very rythmnic sounds is emphasized with thumps (subwoofer) to begin with. So its understandable.

But with any other types of music, like I mentioned previously, subwoofer should only be played at subtle levels.

If the cost of the Rythmics and Outlaws and the high end subwoofers cost 3 x as much as a normal subwoofer (like a BIC or any other sort in $250 price point) then I seriously think its a waste of money wasting buying ANY subwoofer that is above $300 price point.

That is ofcourse unless you have a personal commercial theatre and plan to turn your whole home into one single theatre with nothing but movie seats and a screen.

For an avergage shopper, it is unneccesary and I'd personally spend the money on the front three speakers than waste money on a rythmics or hsu, or outlaw subs since im gussing the maximum living room for an avergage home owners's size is about 30 x 30 etc...

The whole point of subwoofer is to blend and fill in the HOLLOWNESS that the front three and sorrounds cannot fill in your living room. In turn, making your home theatre never to have a "disconnection" in audio source when viewing a particular source. The fouindation of any movie viewing experience is to make you feel like "you are there" with the movies and this is the ultimate goal I think. And if have a hollowness in sound when viewing a souce, it puts you right back in the real world and that you are only listiing to audio.


For an average listener, it is said that we cannot hear a difference under the 25hz frequency, If this is the case, there are ALOT of subwoofers that cost 3 times as less than the outlaws,hsus, and such.


Really, I see no point in getting any subwoofer that cost above $250.00 price point if you are in a living room. For a personal home theatre, I think about $400.00 should be the maximum a person should spend on a sub.

Even with these low-mid priced subwoofers, I highly doubt you will turn it up even 1/3 of the way. Walls shaking and windows rattling is only the shallow aspects of showing off a woofer. It has NOTHING to do with what subwoofer should be used for and its primary goal, which is to blend smeainglessly with all your other speakers and importantly, never to stick out. If walls shake and windows rattle, its going against the very goal of home theatre, which is to listen comfortabley in a seamless audio sound watching a particular source. (movie or whatnot).

If things rattle around you and feel the subwoofer, it aleardy defeats the purpose since you have just focused on a particular sound,(subwoofer) and breaks the rythem of 5.1 or 7.1 sound.

My advice to all average Joe home theatre shoppers is to never spend more than $250.00 on a sub.
Brian323 is offline  
post #9 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Torqdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 101
^^^Oh dear......... me thinks you may have opened a big old can of worms Brian323.

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
Torqdog is offline  
post #10 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 01:22 PM
Senior Member
 
jarretc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 117
There is watching a movie and there is feeling a movie.....I prefer feeling the movie

When an explosion goes off and you can feel it throughout your body I find it much more enveloping and more enjoyable.

Pioneer VSX-1122-K
Cerwin Vega XLS-215 (Front/Left)
Cerwin Vega XLS-6C (Center)
Dual Triaxes
jarretc is offline  
post #11 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yes but you can feel that with a $200-300 sub, whats the point of getting $800.00 + subs?
Brian323 is offline  
post #12 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 01:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Yes but you can feel that with a $200-300 sub, whats the point of getting $800.00 + subs?

I dunno! Maybe I have been wasting my time confused.gif



Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
post #13 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 01:51 PM
Senior Member
 
jarretc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Yes but you can feel that with a $200-300 sub, whats the point of getting $800.00 + subs?

Lower frequencies, more power, better sound quality

Pioneer VSX-1122-K
Cerwin Vega XLS-215 (Front/Left)
Cerwin Vega XLS-6C (Center)
Dual Triaxes
jarretc is offline  
post #14 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 02:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Well, I honestly had no idea what to look for when I first purchased a sub woofer. I understand what bass is, but didn't really put much thought into it purchasing until I read almost everyone recommending a sub woofer a must have for a home theatre.

After I got it, I played with the crossovers somewhat, and from what I can tell, subwoofers is really about ADDING to the sound. The very loud HUM that gets you envoloped. I think for the most part, sub woofers are only needed for envoloping the audience to the source and to make the soundstage fuller/bigger/wider. If this is the case and I am correct, I do not understand why people turn up their subwoofer LOUD in movies. The sub isnt supposed to stick out since then it takes away from its pripary goal, which is of envoloping the audience with neurtral response. It's not suppose to thump from the speakers (stand out) at all.

In other words, all subwoofers should only be heard at subtle levels. Primary goal being able to blend. Blending should be the most important goal for any subwoofer.

With music as well. If you are going for hip hop, then yeah its understood that a subwoofer CAN be turned up, since the priomary source of hip hop relies on REPEATED rythmic sounds, and the the very rythmnic sounds is emphasized with thumps (subwoofer) to begin with. So its understandable.

But with any other types of music, like I mentioned previously, subwoofer should only be played at subtle levels.

If the cost of the Rythmics and Outlaws and the high end subwoofers cost 3 x as much as a normal subwoofer (like a BIC or any other sort in $250 price point) then I seriously think its a waste of money wasting buying ANY subwoofer that is above $300 price point.

That is ofcourse unless you have a personal commercial theatre and plan to turn your whole home into one single theatre with nothing but movie seats and a screen.

For an avergage shopper, it is unneccesary and I'd personally spend the money on the front three speakers than waste money on a rythmics or hsu, or outlaw subs since im gussing the maximum living room for an avergage home owners's size is about 30 x 30 etc...

The whole point of subwoofer is to blend and fill in the HOLLOWNESS that the front three and sorrounds cannot fill in your living room. In turn, making your home theatre never to have a "disconnection" in audio source when viewing a particular source. The fouindation of any movie viewing experience is to make you feel like "you are there" with the movies and this is the ultimate goal I think. And if have a hollowness in sound when viewing a souce, it puts you right back in the real world and that you are only listiing to audio.


For an average listener, it is said that we cannot hear a difference under the 25hz frequency, If this is the case, there are ALOT of subwoofers that cost 3 times as less than the outlaws,hsus, and such.


Really, I see no point in getting any subwoofer that cost above $250.00 price point if you are in a living room. For a personal home theatre, I think about $400.00 should be the maximum a person should spend on a sub.

Even with these low-mid priced subwoofers, I highly doubt you will turn it up even 1/3 of the way. Walls shaking and windows rattling is only the shallow aspects of showing off a woofer. It has NOTHING to do with what subwoofer should be used for and its primary goal, which is to blend smeainglessly with all your other speakers and importantly, never to stick out. If walls shake and windows rattle, its going against the very goal of home theatre, which is to listen comfortabley in a seamless audio sound watching a particular source. (movie or whatnot).

If things rattle around you and feel the subwoofer, it aleardy defeats the purpose since you have just focused on a particular sound,(subwoofer) and breaks the rythem of 5.1 or 7.1 sound.

My advice to all average Joe home theatre shoppers is to never spend more than $250.00 on a sub.

A "hum" of any kind is bad. Subwoofers add bass, not hum. You have a ground loop problem somewhere.

People (who know what they're doing) don't "turn up their subwoofers loud." As you say, they should blend; no one speaker (sub, surround or otherwise) should call attention to itself in a properly designed system.

There are many people (especially here) who have, indeed, set up part of their home as a theatre "with nothing but movie seats and a screen." I, unfortunately, cannot be one of those people, but I'm very happy with my system as it is. You can be, too; indeed, perhaps you already are.

More expensive subwoofers are able to play deeper and louder. If you have a small room and don't need to rattle the fillings in your teeth, you may be perfectly happy with the sub you have (or the Klipsch RW-12d, which is one of the subs I have). If you have a large room and want to crank it up, you need a more powerful subwoofer (or two, or three!).

You don't hear much below 25Hz, you FEEL it. Do you know the feeling you get when a big truck goes past your house? You don't need to look to see the big truck. A good subwoofer reproduces that "feeling," not just the sound. And you can't get that feeling for $250. Which is why I just ordered Buttkickers, but that's another story.

Most of the time, references here to "walls shaking" is accepted hyperbole. You're being too literal. That said, there are many here with systems that can, indeed, shake walls, but, like having a car that CAN go 90 miles per hour, that doesn't mean that you USUALLY go 90 miles per hour.

Average Joe may be perfectly happy with a $250 sub. Indeed, there are at least two threads here that deal specifically with subwoofers in that price range. The Klipsch was available for a time for $280, which was considered a fantastic bargain. I love mine. There are cars that are capable of hitting 200 MPH. I don't need (or, frankly, want) one of them, either.

There is nothing wrong with being happy with the system you have. Indeed, some of us never know when (or how!) to stop (see the threads about digging DOWN through the basement floor to make room for two rows of seats, see the threads about building a separate room to generate <5 Hz, see the threads.... You get the idea.).

Enjoy what you have.

jaygax likes this.

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #15 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 02:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Yes but you can feel that with a $200-300 sub, whats the point of getting $800.00 + subs?

Not really, that $200-300 sub simply can't reproduce the lower frequencies, as measured in Hz (what's a Hz analogy anyways?), with any appreciable spl (measured in dB) with an acceptable level of distortion. Many $800 subs don't dig as deep as some soundtracks have content. All about how much bass you want to be able to reproduce and how realistically. For you to say what everyone is happy with and define it with a price point with your minimal experience and knowledge isn't going to be taken too seriously around here.

lovinthehd is offline  
post #16 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Torqdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Yes but you can feel that with a $200-300 sub, whats the point of getting $800.00 + subs?
Yeah, and a large majority of folks are perfectly content with their $200.00 HTIB systems and then there are those who appreciate what a fine system can do and spend their money accordingly. Same goes for subwoofers. I recently replaced my 12" HSU sub with a Rythmik FV15HP because of the fact that the HSU was struggling real hard to keep up with my speakers in my ~5800 ft^3 room. The HSU was no slouch but the FV15HP is in a completely different league, especially when listening to music. Movies are also greatly improved and the ultra low frequency stuff that is now presented really aids in drawing one into the movie.

But as is always the case..........different strokes for different folks or YMMV and if you are happy with your BIC sub, then kick back and enjoy it. But something tells me that with the fact that you started this thread, you may have come down with a slight case of upgrade fever and just haven't realized it yet. eek.gif
jaygax likes this.

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
Torqdog is offline  
post #17 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Walls shaking and windows rattling is only the shallow aspects of showing off a woofer. It has NOTHING to do with what subwoofer should be used for and its primary goal, which is to blend smeainglessly with all your other speakers and importantly, never to stick out. If walls shake and windows rattle, its going against the very goal of home theatre, which is to listen comfortabley in a seamless audio sound watching a particular source. (movie or whatnot).
If things rattle around you and feel the subwoofer, it aleardy defeats the purpose since you have just focused on a particular sound,(subwoofer) and breaks the rythem of 5.1 or 7.1 sound.
True, a sub's presence shouldn't be conspicuous. What should be conspicuous is its absence when you turn it off.
Quote:
My advice to all average Joe home theatre shoppers is to never spend more than $250.00 on a sub.
There I disagree. If you have a high quality system overall and you do on occasion like to crank it a bit a $250 sub isn't going to keep up. For that matter a $1k sub might not, as room modes can't be smoothed with one sub. For the best result at least two subs should be used, and then as far as price goes it's a matter of how low and how loud you want to go. $250 subs don't do 105dB at 15Hz.
jaygax likes this.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #18 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

 $250 subs don't do 105dB at 15Hz.

They do, just not for very long.

biggrin.gif


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #19 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Yes but you can feel that with a $200-300 sub, whats the point of getting $800.00 + subs?

I too had this mentality at one time...then I stepped up and bought REAL subs and they are worth every penny. 200-300.00 sub does not compare, you get what you pay for!
basshead81 is offline  
post #20 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The reason why I started this thread was because I was on a shopping hunt for my front 3 speakers. I went to Hsu to try out their MK2's and Ascend to try out their CBM-170SE.
Ofcourse being able to demo both speakers, one played the HSU sub, and the other, Rythmic.

Maybe hum isnt the proper word for it, I realize I was actually trying to say "FEELING the hum". I actually feel the sub with my BIC-H100 (feeling a truck passing by effect liek a previous poster mentioned) with a $200 sub in a 25x25 living room lol.

Anyway, In any movie, you CANNOT only "feel" the sub with mellowness . I think everything goes together. If you are able to "feel" the sub, at one point in the movie, you will also get an annoying out of "blended" big THUMP from your subwoofer while watching your movie. And I think that takes away from the whole movie experience. To compensate and enjoy the pleasures of both, the low mellowness sub-feeling that is there throghout your movie experience but also have that airyness or emptyness filled (leaving you envloped trhoughout your movie) I think you should get bettter front speakers instead. So IMHO, one should never spend more than $200-300 on a sub, and rather spend the money you were going to spend on a $800 + sub to better front speakers. That way, you will never get an annoying THUMP but stil able to maintain the -sub is there mellowed out- feeling.




A goal for a home theatre is literally is to bring theatre sound in your own home. When you goto a theatre, you never really FEEL the sub hitting your chest, the SUB is always mellowed out. I dont recall any scene while watching a movie at a theatre and its sub HITTING me on my chest.

However the "hum" or the feel of the bass is always mellowed and existent. This is what subs should be. A mellow blend to your speakers. To cover the holloweness or airyness within your home theatre room. And certainly you can get that with $200-$300 subs in a 20 x 20 room.

Besides, you are going to pay $600 more dollars to alternate a little low end muffle that is existent in maybe 1- 2% throughout the whole movie? Might as well set up another 5.1 system in another room.
Brian323 is offline  
post #21 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post
If things rattle around you and feel the subwoofer, it aleardy defeats the purpose since you have just focused on a particular sound,(subwoofer) and breaks the rythem of 5.1 or 7.1 sound.

 

When there is an explosion, do things not rattle? While watching a movie I want to feel the explosion as if it happened right in front of my face. If there is an earthquake I want to feel the floor and couch shaking. You can't get the same feeling with a low quality sub.

Mrkazador is offline  
post #22 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 4,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

The reason why I started this thread was because I was on a shopping hunt for my front 3 speakers. I went to Hsu to try out their MK2's and Ascend to try out their CBM-170SE.
Ofcourse being able to demo both speakers, one played the HSU sub, and the other, Rythmic.
 

Pairing a sub with $300 bookshelf speakers is a different category from, say, with these:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1458711/jtr-noesis-228ht-the-best-speaker-you-never-heard-of-for-1200-pricepoint

As I said, I hope you continue to enjoy what you have.


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #23 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
In a dedicated home theatre like that, its understandable. The seatings are definately spacious and wide, and I would think if there are seating of more than 10-15 seats, bigger power is needed to fill the audience of that space.

Maybe I didnt mention clearly, but the intent of this thread is for the avergae joe's who just bought a 40 - 50 screen with one or two sofa or a plain old couch in a 15 x 15 to a 20 x 20 living room. If one is is in this situation (like most) than a $200 - $300 BIC or Klipsch subwoofer would be more than enough.
Brian323 is offline  
post #24 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
Brian323's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Try to remember when you goto a theatre and watched a particular film that involved an earthquake movies (like armegeddon movies), do you ever see your soda cup shaking? in those very secenes, if I remember correctly, it was always subtle, JUST enough to make you feel it. Never enough for the screen your watching on to start flickering and your next seat friend looking like he's having tremors.
Brian323 is offline  
post #25 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mrkazador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 248
I think most movie theaters care about SPL so the subs dont dig deep (40hz?).
Mrkazador is offline  
post #26 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 04:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Torqdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Try to remember when you goto a theatre and watched a particular film that involved an earthquake movies (like armegeddon movies), do you ever see your soda cup shaking? in those very secenes, if I remember correctly, it was always subtle, JUST enough to make you feel it. Never enough for the screen your watching on to start flickering and your next seat friend looking like he's having tremors.
Most movie theaters don't have subs that play much below 25 to 30hz. It's cost prohibitive in a room that size and more importantly, the ultra low frequencies would invade the adjacent theater room worse than they already do.

Brian, have you ever experienced what a high quality set-up sounds like? This is not a loaded question and there is no "right or wrong" answer. Just curious if you've ever "tasted" the good stuff.
jaygax likes this.

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
Torqdog is offline  
post #27 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 04:38 PM
Senior Member
 
sickboy013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12

sickboy013 is offline  
post #28 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 04:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Most movie theaters don't have subs that play much below 25 to 30hz. It's cost prohibitive in a room that size and more importantly, the ultra low frequencies would invade the adjacent theater room worse than they already do.
+1. Average theaters only have average sound. Getting the IMAX experience is what a good HT is all about.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is offline  
post #29 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 05:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post


Maybe I didnt mention clearly, but the intent of this thread is for the avergae joe's who just bought a 40 - 50 screen with one or two sofa or a plain old couch in a 15 x 15 to a 20 x 20 living room. If one is is in this situation (like most) than a $200 - $300 BIC or Klipsch subwoofer would be more than enough.

I am Joe that has the 58" screen with 2 sofas in a 20x15 room...the dual PSA XV15's are absolutely insane. It was well worth the money spent over the diy passive 15", paradigm pdr10, and polk psw505's that I previously had. The sound quality, extension, and output is on a whole different level. most folks buy what they can afford, they do not stick with 2-300.00 subs because there is no point in spending more.
basshead81 is offline  
post #30 of 540 Old 06-01-2013, 05:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Hey Brian,

I have been interested in the RW-12D for some time due to all the chatter regarding. So I picked one up for $278 and have been running it for a week now just to see how it stacks up to other options I have ran or do run. For $278 it is admittedly much more SW than what I was expecting. So I see how you have come to your conclusion. The last time I did this (bought a budget sub) was with the 1220 coming in at $200. I ran it for like 20 minutes and then gave it away.. it was that bad imo. To think I gave it to a friend too. biggrin.gif

Like mentioned in the many posts above, I can tell you there is a (big) difference in SQ, frequency response, roll-off.. on and on. I don’t think the sub you mention would fair well against the 12D either. If it’s enough for you then that’s fine. In the end your opinion does not stand up to what us users that know from past and present experiences though.

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off