Audyssey and Dynamic EQ - AVS Forum
Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Audyssey and Dynamic EQ
DotJun's Avatar DotJun 06:58 PM 06-01-2013
So I was messing around with rew and my reciever last night when I noticed that Dynamic EQ was enabled. I thought I had turned this and Dynamic Volume off long ago, but there it is.

So here's my dilemma, after I disabled Dynamic EQ the bass level I was used to and liked dropped to nothing so I went ahead and started to raise the bass level. What I come to find out is that I now have the sub level at +12db and that's where I like it.

So yea, am I doing something wrong here cause I feel that I am by having my sub set so high now?

Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar Bill Fitzmaurice 07:44 PM 06-01-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

So yea, am I doing something wrong here cause I feel that I am by having my sub set so high now?
Not at all. Dynamic EQ boosts the lows and highs at lower volume levels and reduces the boost as levels go higher, to compensate for our lessened sensitivity to lows and highs at lower volumes, see: Equal Loudness. When you defeated the dynamic EQ you removed that boost. By turning the sub volume up you compensated for that loss of that boost. The downside is that if you run the system at a higher volume the sub may end up too loud.
DotJun's Avatar DotJun 10:02 PM 06-01-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not at all. Dynamic EQ boosts the lows and highs at lower volume levels and reduces the boost as levels go higher, to compensate for our lessened sensitivity to lows and highs at lower volumes, see: Equal Loudness. When you defeated the dynamic EQ you removed that boost. By turning the sub volume up you compensated for that loss of that boost. The downside is that if you run the system at a higher volume the sub may end up too loud.
That's exactly what I noticed! As I neared reference, the sub started to shift from underwhelming to overwhelming the mains. Now to decide which way, enabled or disabled, works best for me.
pronghorn/az's Avatar pronghorn/az 03:19 PM 06-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

That's exactly what I noticed! As I neared reference, the sub started to shift from underwhelming to overwhelming the mains. Now to decide which way, enabled or disabled, works best for me.

I tried this with it off for awhile then turned it back on. To me it made a bigger difference having it on.

Jeff
craig john's Avatar craig john 03:42 PM 06-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

That's exactly what I noticed! As I neared reference, the sub started to shift from underwhelming to overwhelming the mains. Now to decide which way, enabled or disabled, works best for me.
DEQ does more than just augment the bass at levels below Reference. It also augments the highs, (although less than the amount of augmentation for the bass), and it raises the relative levels of the surrounds. It does all these things to account for what Audyssey has determined to be the optimal augmentation based on their own research. This research involved asking recording engineers to evaluate different levels of augmentation to help determine what we humans find to be "perceptually" the same at different overall volumes.

One thing you might want to try is Audyssey's Reference Level Offset. That system changes the point at which DEQ becomes active. I use an RLO of 5, which means DEQ doesn't come into play until the MVC is at -5. I find this to be a better compromise, especially for music listening, which generally doesn't seem to need as much augmentation.

Craig
DotJun's Avatar DotJun 06:41 PM 06-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

DEQ does more than just augment the bass at levels below Reference. It also augments the highs, (although less than the amount of augmentation for the bass), and it raises the relative levels of the surrounds. It does all these things to account for what Audyssey has determined to be the optimal augmentation based on their own research. This research involved asking recording engineers to evaluate different levels of augmentation to help determine what we humans find to be "perceptually" the same at different overall volumes.

One thing you might want to try is Audyssey's Reference Level Offset. That system changes the point at which DEQ becomes active. I use an RLO of 5, which means DEQ doesn't come into play until the MVC is at -5. I find this to be a better compromise, especially for music listening, which generally doesn't seem to need as much augmentation.

Craig
Is DEQ basically a loudness button then? I did some skimming awhile back and it seemed the larger camp had decided that it is an evil tool that colors what should be pure sound.
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar Bill Fitzmaurice 08:35 PM 06-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Is DEQ basically a loudness button then?
Pretty much, though being DSP controlled they work better.
craig john's Avatar craig john 09:39 PM 06-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Is DEQ basically a loudness button then? I did some skimming awhile back and it seemed the larger camp had decided that it is an evil tool that colors what should be pure sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Is DEQ basically a loudness button then? I did some skimming awhile back and it seemed the larger camp had decided that it is an evil tool that colors what should be pure sound.
How did you get that from what I wrote? It's a "loudness button" in that it augments the bass and treble for human hearing deficiencies. However, it does the "loudness" differently than a simple loudness button, because it's based on different research than the Fletcher-Munson curves that most loudness curves are based on. It also does more than a simple loudness button as I described above for the surrounds. In addition, it has adjustability that no loudness button that I'm aware of has ever had.

Craig
flickhtguru's Avatar flickhtguru 08:20 AM 06-04-2013
IMO Dyn EQ is a great feature for those of us that don't listen anywhere close to reference level volume. I have been playing around with that on my system a lot lately and I def prefer Dyn EQ ON, but I have found that RLO of 15 works/sounds best for me and what I like.

OP don't get too hung up on how it is "supposed" to sound. If you like it use it and if you don't then disable it.
Shadowdane's Avatar Shadowdane 11:35 AM 06-04-2013
Yah I prefer using Dynamic EQ as I usually listen around -35db to -20db, being in an apartment means I really can't push things above -18db without pissing off the neighbors. Also using Dynamic EQ means I don't have to constantly tweak the subwoofer output depending on the output level.
Adam-DiVine's Avatar Adam-DiVine 12:40 PM 06-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


How did you get that from what I wrote? It's a "loudness button" in that it augments the bass and treble for human hearing deficiencies. However, it does the "loudness" differently than a simple loudness button, because it's based on different research than the Fletcher-Munson curves that most loudness curves are based on. It also does more than a simple loudness button as I described above for the surrounds. In addition, it has adjustability that no loudness button that I'm aware of has ever had.

Craig

A little off topic, but I am having problems with a new Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver. The sound during movies sounds anemic compared to my old receiver (Pioneer SC25). I have the Onkyo calibrated to the same levels that I calibrated the Pioneer. While listening at -7, the sound from the Pioneer is much more engaging. I do not have Dynamic EQ turned on and was wondering if I should have it on. I also wonder if the sound difference I am hearing is just the difference between using Audyssey and MCACC. Do you have any experience with MCACC Craig?
craig john's Avatar craig john 03:43 PM 06-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam-DiVine View Post

A little off topic, but I am having problems with a new Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver. The sound during movies sounds anemic compared to my old receiver (Pioneer SC25). I have the Onkyo calibrated to the same levels that I calibrated the Pioneer. While listening at -7, the sound from the Pioneer is much more engaging. I do not have Dynamic EQ turned on and was wondering if I should have it on. I also wonder if the sound difference I am hearing is just the difference between using Audyssey and MCACC. Do you have any experience with MCACC Craig?
Hi Adam,

First, rather than comparing the sound at identical MVC settings, I suggest you compare the sound at volume levels that are perceptibly the same. IOW, turn up the Onkyo until is sounds as loud as the Pioneer did while ignoring the MVC setting. If the Pioneer still sounded "more engaging", then the difference could be that you prefer the Pioneer MCACC target curve over the Onkyo/Audyssey target curve.

However, please remember that the Audyssey target curve is set to be optimal at full Reference Level, (105 dB peaks from the speakers and 115 dB peaks from the LFE channel.) This is VERY loud and most folks listen at much lower levels. This is where Dynamic EQ comes in. It compensates the target curve for human hearing perception at lower volume levels. You can certainly try DEQ and see if it restores the "engagement" that you seem to be missing from your Onkyo.

Good luck. smile.gif

Craig

Edit: Also, please give further description of your system, (speakers, sub(s), BM settings, etc. I can think of another reason your system could be sounding "anemic" but it has nothing to do with DEQ.
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