Sub advice for new HT. $700 or less. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking for recommendations on a single sub (under $700) to complete my new home theater. Store rep is suggesting Def Tech SuperCube 4000. Sounded good in the store, but I would appreciate suggestions on others and reasons why.

20 x 20 basement home theater
Pioneer SC-1522K receiver
Def Tech SM55 L/R front speakers
Def Tech CS 8040 center
Def Tech ProCinema 1000 rear speakers
(75% movies/TV and 25% music).

Thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 10:04 AM
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If you can hike that up to $750, the Hsu VTF3 has a $50 discount at the moment which makes it the best value at that price. It's a large but very powerful sub with bass so deep it goes below human hearing. Otherwise you might just take a look at the VTF2, Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, or Rythmik FV12. If you can fit two subs, I would take a look at two Klipsch RW-12d subs, which are on sale at Newegg.com for $280 each.
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Shady,

#1 Am I to assume that the subs you listed will blow the Def Tech SC4000 away?

#2 HSU has the Hsu VTF3 on sale for $649, so that is perfect. But is it overkill for the speakers I am purchasing? CNET's S. Guttenberg loves it but says it is overkill for rooms under 500 sq. feet, and he suggested the $449 Hsu Research VTF-1 MK2 sub would be better for small rooms. Although, the back side of my HT room is open to another 20 x 20 room with a bar and poker table. Your thoughts on these concerns?

#3 I have never considered it, but I can fit two subs easily. What are the benefits of having two with an application like mine?

#4 If you had to choose between the single Hsu or the two Klipsch RW-12d's, what would you choose, and why?

#5 I see Hsu has theater speaker packages that are priced in line with the Def Techs i heard at BB. Your thoughts on their hybrid package:

•1 VTF-1 MK2 Subwoofer
•4 HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf Speakers
•1 HC-1 MK2 Horn Center Channel speaker


I really appreciate your help. Just trying to get the most for my $1800 or so.
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 11:14 AM
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Ah, a fellow freight dog.biggrin.gif

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #5 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, a glutton for punishmet...
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post #6 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 11:22 AM
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#4 If you had to choose between the single Hsu or the two Klipsch RW-12d's, what would you choose, and why?

My vote would be the HSU, it;s by far the better sub. You could offer 4 12D's and I would still choose the HSU. just sayin

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post #7 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 11:23 AM
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#1 Am I to assume that the subs you listed will blow the Def Tech SC4000 away?
DefTech is known to be both vague and "optimistic" with their specs. The SC4000 is no exception:
- 1,200W ??? (RMS? peak? something else?) amp
- extension to 16Hz @ -??dB (-6? -10? more?)

The subs listed by shadyJ should have no trouble outperforming the SC4000.
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#2 HSU has the Hsu VTF3 on sale for $649, so that is perfect. But is it overkill for the speakers I am purchasing?
No. Once your system is calibrated, the sub should blend with it.
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... Guttenberg loves it but says it is overkill for rooms under 500 sq. feet ... Although, the back side of my HT room is open to another 20 x 20 room with a bar and poker table.
So, you've got a 400 sq.ft. room that is open to another 400 sq.ft. room. 800 sq.ft. x ~7.5' = ~6000 cu.ft. That is a HUGE space. A small sub will be overwhelmed by it. Even a single better sub will be put to work pressurizing that much space.
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#3 I have never considered it, but I can fit two subs easily. What are the benefits of having two with an application like mine?
Greater overall output, increased headroom and smoother frequency response across the listening position.

As for how to proceed, IMO you should buy one good sub now, and add a second good sub later on.
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post #8 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by fr8doggr View Post

Shady,

#1 Am I to assume that the subs you listed will blow the Def Tech SC4000 away?

#2 HSU has the Hsu VTF3 on sale for $649, so that is perfect. But is it overkill for the speakers I am purchasing? CNET's S. Guttenberg loves it but says it is overkill for rooms under 500 sq. feet, and he suggested the $449 Hsu Research VTF-1 MK2 sub would be better for small rooms. Although, the back side of my HT room is open to another 20 x 20 room with a bar and poker table. Your thoughts on these concerns?

#3 I have never considered it, but I can fit two subs easily. What are the benefits of having two with an application like mine?

#4 If you had to choose between the single Hsu or the two Klipsch RW-12d's, what would you choose, and why?

#5 I see Hsu has theater speaker packages that are priced in line with the Def Techs i heard at BB. Your thoughts on their hybrid package:

•1 VTF-1 MK2 Subwoofer
•4 HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf Speakers
•1 HC-1 MK2 Horn Center Channel speaker


I really appreciate your help. Just trying to get the most for my $1800 or so.

I agree with a lot of what eljaycanuck said, yes, the subs will be higher performing than the SC4000. And no, the VTF3 is not overkill for the speakers you are purchasing. Like eljay said, two subs will give you a more even bass sound over a greater area in your room- many of us have two or more subs. Between two Klipsch and one VTF3, I would go with the VTF3 for greater sound quality and deeper extension. There are some very serious advantages to two beefy Klipsch subs though, so it isn't an easy decision. As for the VTF1 Hybrid package, I would skip the VTF1 and go for a VTF2 at the very least. There is a big jump in performance going from the Hsu 10"s to the Hsu 12"s, it definitely justifies the price increase. The Hsu speakers are very good ones though. I haven't heard the Deftech speakers so I can't say how they would compare.
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post #9 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post



As for how to proceed, IMO you should buy one good sub now, and add a second good sub later on.

+1

Though, if you want to do this all in one shot and can bump your budget just a bit I think a pair of SVS PB-1000s for $1000 may be what you need. Certainly much more than just "$250 better" than the single Supercube. You have the space for larger ported subs, may as well use it smile.gif
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post #10 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 01:51 PM
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a pair of pb-1000's wont do that big room any justice...as mentioned by shadyj the hsu mk4 would br a great choice if adding another down the road is in the budget....however If the op could bump the budget to 1070.00, I would go with dual Rythmik LV12R's.
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post #11 of 26 Old 06-11-2013, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

a pair of pb-1000's wont do that big room any justice...as mentioned by shadyj the hsu mk4 would br a great choice if adding another down the road is in the budget....however If the op could bump the budget to 1070.00, I would go with dual Rythmik LV12R's.

+1 Both would be great options. 12R's would get'er done rite away.

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post #12 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

a pair of pb-1000's wont do that big room any justice...as mentioned by shadyj the hsu mk4 would br a great choice if adding another down the road is in the budget....however If the op could bump the budget to 1070.00, I would go with dual Rythmik LV12R's.

Just wondering, does the LV12R have that much more output than the PB-1000? I considered the LV12R but shipping and duty to Canada drove the price into the $750 range on the Rythmic.
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post #13 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 06:02 AM
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All I can offer is a assumption... SVS subs have heavy distortion limiters built in. I would suspect the LV12R is more along the lines of the Outlaw LFM-1 possibly even a XV15. Go to data-bass, look up the FV15HP and knock off roughly 6 db across the frequency range from 20hz 2port mode.
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post #14 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I am narrowing it down to three models:

Def Tech SC4000
Rythmik LV12R
Hsu VTF-3 MK4

All about the same price.

20 x 20 basement home theater
Pioneer SC-1522K receiver
Def Tech SM55 L/R front speakers
Def Tech CS 8040 center
Def Tech ProCinema 1000 rear speakers
(75% movies/TV and 25% music).
May add another sub somewhere down the road, but definitely just one for now.

Any thoughts...
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post #15 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

All I can offer is a assumption... SVS subs have heavy distortion limiters built in. I would suspect the LV12R is more along the lines of the Outlaw LFM-1 possibly even a XV15. Go to data-bass, look up the FV15HP and knock off roughly 6 db across the frequency range from 20hz 2port mode.

I agree that a pair of PB-1000s would be insufficient in the OP's room (by the standards of many on this board), I'm just surprised that a pair of LV12R's would provide a meaningful improvement over a pair of PB-1000s in the 6000 cubic foot space.

I'm a newb and just going off of what I have read about the PB-1000...

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/04/19/review-svs-pb-1000-subwoofer
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post #16 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 06:56 AM
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The Rythmik FV15HP averages 114.5db from 16-80hz in 2 port max output.

Going off of Rythmik's data the LV12R has 6db less output than the 15.That would give it a average of 108.5db from 20-80hz...add a second and your looking at a average of 111.5db output non co-located.

The PB12-NSD has a average output of 104.7 from 16-80hz, the PB-1000 has even less.

As I already mentioned, SVS subs have aggressive distortion limiters built in...Rythmik direct servo subs allow greater output with the same driver size and power compared to other ID companies. FWIW I own PSA products, so I am not a Rythmik fanboy. For your room size and budget, the LV12R is your best option. Dont put stock in those poetic reviews that audio magazines write. If you want to read real reviews and get good advice talk, to Jim Wilson... he is Jman over at hometheatreshack.com, where you can find reviews on both subs and many more for that matter.
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post #17 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 07:04 AM
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For $799 shipped you could get a Power Sound Audio XV15. This company has great costumer service and is very helpful when determining what sub works for what space.

Give it a look.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv15
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post #18 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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basshead,

Just to get this right. You are recommending the Rythmik LV12R over the Hsu VTF-3 MK4. Correct?
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post #19 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 08:22 AM
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I am recomending a pair of LV12R's over the MK4 for a price difference of around 340.00. I know its over the ops budget but not by a huge margin.
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post #20 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I am recomending a pair of LV12R's over the MK4 for a price difference of around 340.00. I know its over the ops budget but not by a huge margin.

Actually $340 over budget is huge for the OP's budget of $700 MAX. Its almost 50% more.... But I do agree with you 100% about dual LV12R's over a single VTF3-MK4.

I love this forum but it really is a bad place for someone to come that has a hard budget. Cuz normally its just like spend $X more and you could have this much better sub... I think most ppl give good advice but we rarely ever stay in the price constraints that the OP gives..

Shawn
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post #21 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Flick and Basshead,

I am the OP. And right now I am only getting one sub, but I could see myself getting a second maybe this time next year. Right now with a sale at Hsu, the VTF-3 MK4 is only $60 more than the rythmik. ( Bass, I am not sure where you are getting your prices. I am just going by their company sites. Rythmik - $589 Hsu - $649) I understand that two of either of these will sound better than one alone. Maybe I should have asked the question better. In a side-by-side comparison (of equal number), which would you choose and why? Both of these things are getting rave reviews.
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post #22 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 08:56 AM
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^^^ The Rythmik is $589 with free shipping the HSU is $649 + $99 shipping so its $748 making the HSU approx $160 more each.

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post #23 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Flick, you are correct. Good point about the shipping. So if pricing wasn't a factor, which would you choose?
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post #24 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 09:06 AM
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Good question, I'm not sure. I have dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Pluses and I love them and Dr. Hsu helped with their design and they are kinda close to Hsu subs. But I'm intrigued by the Rythmik servo subs. Also this is just me just cuz I like things my way, I'm not a fan of side firing subs unless its a dual opposed sealed design.

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post #25 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fr8doggr View Post

Flick and Basshead,

I am the OP. And right now I am only getting one sub, but I could see myself getting a second maybe this time next year. Right now with a sale at Hsu, the VTF-3 MK4 is only $60 more than the rythmik. ( Bass, I am not sure where you are getting your prices. I am just going by their company sites. Rythmik - $589 Hsu - $649) I understand that two of either of these will sound better than one alone. Maybe I should have asked the question better. In a side-by-side comparison (of equal number), which would you choose and why? Both of these things are getting rave reviews.

I factor shipping in all my recomendations. advertised price means nothing...its what you pay to get the sub in your living room that matters. That being said the LV12R is the best bang for buck sub in that price range.

LV12R- 589.00 shipped

MK4- 748.00 shipped
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post #26 of 26 Old 06-12-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I love this forum but it really is a bad place for someone to come that has a hard budget. Cuz normally its just like spend $X more and you could have this much better sub... I think most ppl give good advice but we rarely ever stay in the price constraints that the OP gives..

I couldn't agree with you more, this forum always seems to get me in trouble and my original budget always seems to go right out the window any time I start to think about buying something.

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