SVS Ultra PB vs. Rythmik FV15H - But not your typical questions. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Sounds like you are suffering from a major case of paralysis by over analysis.

One question.........how do you plan to use your subs? What I am talking about is percentage movie to music. If you listen at all to music or watch concerts, the servo technology in the Rythmik is something to consider as it really tightens up the bass when set to high damping. Also, servo technology is supposed to help reduce the distorsion factor.

Lol.... without a doubt.

99% home theater and the 1% audio. The audio if anything will be iPod, Pandora or the like. Rap/rock/pop. I did a bit of reading on servo technology and most of it was on pure audiophile websites. It seems to be the consensus that servo provides good sound for music. I don't understand why the distortion is higher on the Rythmik vs. the Ultra though.

I'd like to hear them both, but from what I read they are so close it wouldn't make much difference.
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

This data on circuit breakers will give you insight as to how much current a breaker can handle and for how long.

Series C F-frame circuit breaker time current curves

Look to page three for information regarding 15A breakers.

I appreciate the info, but don't understand it.

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The FV15HP is a much better buy. also there is no amp option, they come standard with 600watt servo amps. Also the Rythmik will be alot more musical from what I have read over at audioholics.

There is an amp option. It doesn't up the amps, but it allows a master/slave control option, and also adds XLR in/out, 12 volt trigger, and whatever else I'm not aware of. The upgrade is 40.00.

I've done a lot of reading over at Audioholics and I get somewhat the same impression however it's not a lot more musical.... more like a bit more musical. But again, looking at the chart above the Ultra has less distortion. I tried to find the Q data for the Ultra, albeit it was a very brief search, and came up with nothing. The Rythmik is as low as .03 which I guess is very good.

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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

Yeah you have a really tough decition to make. I would interject but in the end it's up to you. Imo you can't go wrong no matter what your choice is. I recognise there might be some other dilimas that you (might?) be considering in the back of your head also?? cool.gif
No not at all.

Interject! I'll take any info you have to give!

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post #32 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 09:48 PM
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I for one like the looks of the ULTRA much better and I also believe their customer service is better. I don’t have any numbers to substantiate this but imo that’s what I believe from experience coupled with hanging around here for years. Admittedly I have had the PB12 ULTRA and dual PB13 ULTRA’s. They're great high-end subs, no doubt about it. Imo a good sub will do just justice with music or HT.. this was my experience. High-end smooth driver coupled with a great feature rich amp itself.

Ok so now the Rythmik.. Never have owned one but have absolutely no doubt in regards to the quality of the SW it is. I know numbers don’t give a guy the full picture, but there is no denying them either. To think how often we run our gear to the max.. but they’re there just the same. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

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post #33 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I for one like the looks of the ULTRA much better and I also believe their customer service is better. I don’t have any numbers to substantiate this but imo that’s what I believe from experience coupled with hanging around here for years. Admittedly I have had the PB12 ULTRA and dual PB13 ULTRA’s. They're great high-end subs, no doubt about it. Imo a good sub will do just justice with music or HT.. this was my experience. High-end smooth driver coupled with a great feature rich amp itself.

Ok so now the Rythmik.. Never have owned one but have absolutely no doubt in regards to the quality of the SW it is. I know numbers don’t give a guy the full picture, but there is no denying them either. To think how often we run our gear to the max.. but they’re there just the same. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Thanks for your insight Steve! I would agree the looks and customer service is better. Actually the lack luster customer service steered me away from Rythmik...however I didnt deal with Brian, so that could of been the problem. why did you get rid of the ultras?
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post #34 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I for one like the looks of the ULTRA much better and I also believe their customer service is better. I don’t have any numbers to substantiate this but imo that’s what I believe from experience coupled with hanging around here for years. Admittedly I have had the PB12 ULTRA and dual PB13 ULTRA’s. They're great high-end subs, no doubt about it. Imo a good sub will do just justice with music or HT.. this was my experience. High-end smooth driver coupled with a great feature rich amp itself.

Ok so now the Rythmik.. Never have owned one but have absolutely no doubt in regards to the quality of the SW it is. I know numbers don’t give a guy the full picture, but there is no denying them either. To think how often we run our gear to the max.. but they’re there just the same. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

How odd you just posted about looks. I literally just sent my wife pictures of the Rythmik and SVS. I also sent here a sample of the piano black via an SVS sealed box. She instantly went for the svs sealed for the look and finish. lol... good thing this is MY room. smile.gif She possibly gets the finish and I get the ports.

Thanks for your input. Appreciated!

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post #35 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Thanks for your insight Steve! I would agree the looks and customer service is better. Actually the lack luster customer service steered me away from Rythmik...however I didnt deal with Brian, so that could of been the problem. why did you get rid of the ultras?

Hey Bass,
Thanks man! Respectfully.. No reason whatsoever. I think it was a DIY project that I moved on to next. That’s why in the poll I’m running includes Turnkey v ID with the Bi included pertaining to both options.

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post #36 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

How odd you just posted about looks. I literally just sent my wife pictures of the Rythmik and SVS. I also sent here a sample of the piano black via an SVS sealed box. She instantly went for the svs sealed for the look and finish. lol... good thing this is MY room. smile.gif She possibly gets the finish and I get the ports.

Thanks for your input. Appreciated!


That’s great PDX. It’s a big thing to have the wife onboard.. pluss you get to slide the ported version in for yourself. That will serve you much better in a room your size and considering the fact that you’re 99% movies. Don't be concerned at all if you go the ULTRA, it's one of the leaders in the SW world. cool.gif

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post #37 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post



That’s great PDX. It’s a big thing to have the wife onboard.. pluss you get to slide the ported version in for yourself. That will serve you much better in a room your size and considering the fact that you’re 99% movies. Don't be concerned at all if you go the ULTRA, it's one of the leaders in the SW world. cool.gif

Thanks. Yes, it's pretty cool. However.... it does not come without trade. She's gotten to remodel and design from the studs out our entire home, with the exception of the lower level 'theater' area. It's been a long time coming.... and I mean years. It's worth it to see the smiles and happiness it brings to the one you love though. No complaints at all. Ok , well maybe the fact I sold my 80 MPH supercharged custom built seadoos but.... anyways. rolleyes.gif lol...

Keep the info coming. I'll possibly be ordering tomorrow........

Signing off for the night. I've been reading about home theater in way or the other since 8 am. With the exception being the little drive I took to the bank so I could plug my account with what else? Uh hu.... spending $$$ for my theater.

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post #38 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 11:30 PM
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PDX, after exchanging a few PM's with you; just out of curiosity why didn't you considering something like the Triax sub from PSA? The cordovan cherry finish looks awesome and looks to have some pretty amazing performance.
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I appreciate the info, but don't understand it.

It's a graph which visually describes how much stress a breaker can handle before it trips. In the case of this manufactures breakers, their 15A breaker can handle up to a 40A surge or 4,800w for ten to thirty seconds before tripping.

Each manufacture has their own "time current curves" and the above graph represents a new breaker as the older a breaker is, the easier it will trip to the point where the breaker becomes unuseable and the least bit of stress will cause the breaker to trip.

In cases where the breaker is old and worn, it's time to replace the breaker with an equivalent breaker, manufactured by the original manufacture of that particular power service box. My understanding, replacement breakers "MUST" match the manufacture of the service box.

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post #40 of 60 Old 06-14-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

PDX, after exchanging a few PM's with you; just out of curiosity why didn't you considering something like the Triax sub from PSA? The cordovan cherry finish looks awesome and looks to have some pretty amazing performance.

A couple reasons..... It's a single box that won't fit into my setup scheme. I'm using two subs to get better response and am placing them at the recommended distance per the room mode calculator Sanjay helped me out with.

It's a new product, first of its line. One of the things leaning on me to go SVS is they are established. Both the company and the Ultra setup as a whole.

I did read about it, but there is some debate on the amp and it's limiter combined with a home circuit. Really, for me, My electrical panel is located in my theater room so if I really wanted the triax I could easily install that 50 amp 120v circuit. But none the less, there's too much debate already about that amp and how it will work in a home circuit environment.

Did I mention it's a new product?

It looks like a bad ass sub. But for the form factor and my goals it just doesn't work.

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post #41 of 60 Old 06-14-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

A couple reasons..... It's a single box that won't fit into my setup scheme. I'm using two subs to get better response and am placing them at the recommended distance per the room mode calculator Sanjay helped me out with.

It's a new product, first of its line. One of the things leaning on me to go SVS is they are established. Both the company and the Ultra setup as a whole.

I did read about it, but there is some debate on the amp and it's limiter combined with a home circuit. Really, for me, My electrical panel is located in my theater room so if I really wanted the triax I could easily install that 50 amp 120v circuit. But none the less, there's too much debate already about that amp and how it will work in a home circuit environment.

Did I mention it's a new product?

It looks like a bad ass sub. But for the form factor and my goals it just doesn't work.

Tom V of PSA is one of guys that founded SVS. So its a safe bet his products deliver. Secondly he has confirmed a few times already that the Triax will work on a 15amp circuit.
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post #42 of 60 Old 06-14-2013, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I understand that. It's not an option for me anyways, for the other reasons stated.

But to address the audio issues there seems to be some people who have done some research. From what I read the amp certainly will work on a 15 amp circuit, because it has a built in limiter on it that will prevent it from drawing to many amps, which will in turn lower power output.

There were tests performed and I can't remember if they were tests of the actual Triax or the amp the Triax uses. In any event the tests were performed on a 50 amp circuit, 120 volts. As was said in the Audioholics post, which you've probably read, not many people have 50 amp circuits in their home. It was thought by the posters that a lot of people will get much less power because of the limiter and the use of a 15 amp circuit.

Honestly, I read the thread and that's about it. At no point would I consider a Triax, because I've read too much about the benefits of having 2 subs in different locations, and two Triax boxes would be much much more than I would want.

The fact that Tom V. is from SVS, while that's great, doesn't mean the Triax will not go through it's revisions over the years. Maybe it won't, but it's likely it will.

When I was younger and had more money to throw around on material items I could have cared less about a product being first release. The older I get the more my priorities change. I find myself looking at things I never used to like warranty, return policy, history of an expensive item etc.

The Triax looks like a bad ass sub setup, and I'm sure it will be.

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post #43 of 60 Old 07-14-2013, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I went with PSA (those words tasted good!). 2 xv30f.

Tom's CS and past experience was a huge decision factor for me. It was a bit hard, for me, to go with such a new company but after much research and interaction I decided to take a leap of faith.

Most in this thread already know the decision I made. This info is for the ones who stumble across this thread.

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post #44 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 10:00 AM
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I was strongly considering SVS or Hsu when I recently found out about Rythmik. I can't speak to the others (my prior experience has been with Def Tech and Velodyne subs). But I auditioned both the FV15HP and the E15HP and was very impressed by both. The FV clearly goes lower with more impact and despite being ported, it always sounded under control and tight. I considered buying both but found that for my room / placement adding the E15HP was not providing enough gain to make a big difference for me. I may buy another FV15HP at some point (need to drop another sub cable to get it positioned where I'd need it to be).

So I can't give you a good comparison but can add one to the pile of folks really like the sound of the Rythmik FV15HP (and I can say that my experience with Rythimik's owner was very impressive!). Here is a mini review I posted earlier today...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481744/rythmik-audio-fv15hp-direct-servo-subwoofer-review

Good luck making your decision!
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post #45 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 10:04 AM
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^ The decision has been made...Pdx already bought PSA XV30F's.
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post #46 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

^ The decision has been made...Pdx already bought PSA XV30F's (Plural)(.

Fixed that for you.. biggrin.gif

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post #47 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 08:16 PM
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Fixed that for you.. biggrin.gif
are you blind in one eye and cant see out the other? I said xv30f's tongue.gif
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post #48 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I saw exactly what you wrote. I think you needed to make it more clear. smile.gif

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post #49 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 08:56 PM
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why would i need to make it more clear when you stated "2 xv30f" 2 posts prior lol. ahh i get it now, i need to break out the crayola crayons for the special folks. biggrin.gif
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post #50 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 09:16 PM
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MCACC experience from a Pioneer Elite user, MCACC does EQ the subs down to 63 Hz. In the STANDING WAVE menu the are 3 filter that target 3 problem frequencies, Q to adjust the bandwidth and attenuation control to lower or raise the db level which is what a PEQ does. I have 2 Chase SS 18.1 subs on a Pioneer SC 35 avr. I drive my subs with a Berhinger DSP amp with PEQ and DEQ. The only benefit which is not large, is the ability to do a bass boost around 20 Hz or to cut one peak under 63 Hz. There is not much to do under 63Hz IMHO that will dramatically change the SQ accomplished by MCACC. I ran multiple subs without PEQ using only MCACC and was just has pleased with the SQ. MCACC does more than most people think for total system integration.

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post #51 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 09:19 PM
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MCACC experience from a Pioneer Elite user, MCACC does EQ the subs down to 63 Hz. In the STANDING WAVE menu the are 3 filter that target 3 problem frequencies, Q to adjust the bandwidth and attenuation control to lower or raise the db level which is what a PEQ does. I have 2 Chase SS 18.1 subs on a Pioneer SC 35 avr. I drive my subs with a Berhinger DSP amp with PEQ and DEQ. The only benefit which is not large, is the ability to do a bass boost around 20 Hz or to cut one peak under 63 Hz. There is not much to do under 63Hz IMHO that will dramatically change the SQ accomplished by MCACC. I ran multiple subs without PEQ using only MCACC and was just has pleased with the SQ. MCACC does more than most people think for total system integration.

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post #52 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

why would i need to make it more clear when you stated "2 xv30f" 2 posts prior lol. ahh i get it now, i need to break out the crayola crayons for the special folks. biggrin.gif


LOL... Exactly! I was thinking the same exact thing before I got to the end of your post.

I mean,,,, I only wrote it one line above the short bus kid... biggrin.gif

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post #53 of 60 Old 07-15-2013, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

MCACC experience from a Pioneer Elite user, MCACC does EQ the subs down to 63 Hz. In the STANDING WAVE menu the are 3 filter that target 3 problem frequencies, Q to adjust the bandwidth and attenuation control to lower or raise the db level which is what a PEQ does. I have 2 Chase SS 18.1 subs on a Pioneer SC 35 avr. I drive my subs with a Berhinger DSP amp with PEQ and DEQ. The only benefit which is not large, is the ability to do a bass boost around 20 Hz or to cut one peak under 63 Hz. There is not much to do under 63Hz IMHO that will dramatically change the SQ accomplished by MCACC. I ran multiple subs without PEQ using only MCACC and was just has pleased with the SQ. MCACC does more than most people think for total system integration.

This is interesting. Because in the end, here is my graph. It clearly needs EQ below 63 HZ, and my EQ, like yours, can handle well past 80HZ. I'd like to turn off the MCACC entirely for the subs. Maybe that's an undereducated decision. I've not a lot of experience with MCACC.

But why use two EQs to do the same thing? If you have the Berhinger DSP amp with PEQ and DEQ why would you also use the Pioneer MCACC for same areas?


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post #54 of 60 Old 07-16-2013, 03:22 AM
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MCACC is doing many things for the other speakers and total system integration which can't be done by my Berhinger I Nuke 3000 DSP. In your case I would lower the peak at 40 Hz with low Q and maybe not even touch the small peak at 20 Hz. Going for a totally flat frequency response may takeout some of your mid bass punch and if you use your system also for music a flat response may not sound the best. Also, a flat frequency response may lower your headroom after lowering peaks and having to compensate by increasing the overall db in the PEQ to get the mid bass punch back. I leave MCACC on since it was a big part of the cost of the avr. I have had 2 Denon avr's in the past 3 years and prefer MCACC. Auddysee does have 8 filters for the sub. If you do to much EQ under 63 Hz, you will not be happy with the results. A boost and a cut is all I would recommend under 63 Hz with MCACC. What is your XO and 24 db slop on the PEQ take care of what is happening above 63 Hz.

I have a Klipsch RF 7 system with two Chase SS 18.1 passive subs and use a xo of 200 Hz to get it out of the way of the avr XO at 80 Hz. I also run all speakers as small even though the mains can go into the 30's Hz region. I use my system for HT and music.

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post #55 of 60 Old 07-16-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

MCACC is doing many things for the other speakers and total system integration which can't be done by my Berhinger I Nuke 3000 DSP. In your case I would lower the peak at 40 Hz with low Q and maybe not even touch the small peak at 20 Hz. Going for a totally flat frequency response may takeout some of your mid bass punch and if you use your system also for music a flat response may not sound the best. Also, a flat frequency response may lower your headroom after lowering peaks and having to compensate by increasing the overall db in the PEQ to get the mid bass punch back. I leave MCACC on since it was a big part of the cost of the avr. I have had 2 Denon avr's in the past 3 years and prefer MCACC. Auddysee does have 8 filters for the sub. If you do to much EQ under 63 Hz, you will not be happy with the results. A boost and a cut is all I would recommend under 63 Hz with MCACC. What is your XO and 24 db slop on the PEQ take care of what is happening above 63 Hz.

I have a Klipsch RF 7 system with two Chase SS 18.1 passive subs and use a xo of 200 Hz to get it out of the way of the avr XO at 80 Hz. I also run all speakers as small even though the mains can go into the 30's Hz region. I use my system for HT and music.

Thanks for you input. Appreciated!

I'm not sure what you mean by your above bolded question, but I'll try to answer as best I can. If I miss the mark let me know.

My XO is handled by the AVR only. Set to 80. My mains are set to small. I'm not sure what the slope is on the Rane PE-17. I had planned to first tame the peak at ~40 HZ and then setup MCACC and see what happens with the graph, and the sound.

The Rane has 5 bands. That should allow me to do a house curve, no?

I have so far to go in the sound realm. I might just end up with a mini DSP or FBD. I like the idea of having a music curve and a movie curve and maybe even a very bass light 'late at night wife is sleeping' curve. smile.gif

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post #56 of 60 Old 07-17-2013, 10:42 AM
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You have a PSA sub. Just turn the sub XO all the way up or disable it on the subwoofer. Then the avr will be running the show. I would lower that peak around 7 db and be happy. It will not be a completely flat response but, it will keep a good mid bass punch. The XV 30 is a vented sub, a subsonic filter would be nice to help protect the driver. I don't know if your PEQ allows you to set frequencies under 20 Hz. If it does, then I would have a steep downward slope. An example of what I am talking about is on page 3 of the Dayton SA 1000 manual.http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/300-811m.pdf

The PSA vented subs most likely already have limiters to protect the drivers. Vented subs also drop off quickly below their tunning frequency.

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post #57 of 60 Old 07-17-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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You have a PSA sub. Just turn the sub XO all the way up or disable it on the subwoofer. Then the avr will be running the show. I would lower that peak around 7 db and be happy. It will not be a completely flat response but, it will keep a good mid bass punch. The XV 30 is a vented sub, a subsonic filter would be nice to help protect the driver. I don't know if your PEQ allows you to set frequencies under 20 Hz. If it does, then I would have a steep downward slope. An example of what I am talking about is on page 3 of the Dayton SA 1000 manual.http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/300-811m.pdf

The PSA vented subs most likely already have limiters to protect the drivers. Vented subs also drop off quickly below their tunning frequency.

The XO is set at max high, so as to override it and use the AVR

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post #58 of 60 Old 07-17-2013, 11:54 PM
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In this case, setting the xo all the way up takes the sub xo out of the picture. The avr will usually have a 24 db slope for the subwoofer where as, the other speaker generally have a 12 db slope. The 24 db slope will cutoff higher frequencies from the sub much faster than a 12 db slope used for the other speakers. For example, using a 24 db slop, a 100 Hz xo will be down 24 db at 200 Hz where as, a 12 db slop wood be down 12 db at 200 Hz. XO are not brick wall and higher or lower frequencies can pass thru the xo.

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post #59 of 60 Old 07-18-2013, 07:54 AM
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In this case, setting the xo all the way up takes the sub xo out of the picture. The avr will usually have a 24 db slope for the subwoofer where as, the other speaker generally have a 12 db slope. The 24 db slope will cutoff higher frequencies from the sub much faster than a 12 db slope used for the other speakers. For example, using a 24 db slop, a 100 Hz xo will be down 24 db at 200 Hz where as, a 12 db slop wood be down 12 db at 200 Hz. XO are not brick wall and higher or lower frequencies can pass thru the xo.

Slopes have always confused me. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't this apply down low as well? If you set the crossover at 100Hz and a 24db slope for your other speakers, they will be down 24db at 50Hz. I've typically used this setting (if the prepro allows it) with speakers using smaller woofers such as 5" and less. As for the sub, I typically go with sealed subs and use the 12db slope as sealed subs generally do better up in the higher frequencies.
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post #60 of 60 Old 07-18-2013, 12:05 PM
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Here is a nice like on crossover network: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=77011

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