SVS Ultra PB vs. Rythmik FV15H - But not your typical questions. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 60 Old 06-12-2013, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading and reading and would like to get a few things straight. I'm getting two of one or the other. It's a 260.00 dollar difference in favor of the Rythmiks

The amps-

SVS told me that I'd need a dedicated 15 amp circuit to run two of their ultra ported (it's a class D amp)
Rythmik told me I could throw both on with the rest of my gear. This doesn't sound right to me.

SVS has auto power off, and so does the upgraded Rythmik H600XLR2 at an extra cost of 40 dollars.

You also get the bonus of being able to control both subs with one amp however Rythmik said since I'm using LFE outputs (my AVR has 2 but they're Y'd on the inside) off my AVR that I don't need the slave control. Since my receiver will do it all for both anyways. BUT I have a Pioneer and Im not all that up on MCAAC yet. From what I understand it's lacking some sub EQ features. But, I'm not sure. Looking for some input on this.

Overall amp quality and features. Seems like this goes to SVS. SVS also seems easier, more conventional which is what I'd be more familiar with. The Rythmik has the rumble filters, and some other features that I'm not familiar with, and others have noted as being time comsuming to dial in and/or figure out. I've also read over and over that the SVS EQ is more robust.

Price/Warranty

Yet again, I've read over and over that 'for the price' the Rythmik is the better value.

I'm getting a discount and a 260.00 difference is hardly much. Plus I could get a better finish from an SVS should the subs end up in the room exposed. If I want that finish with the Rythmik it's a 35 dollar difference.

SVS has the better warranty. The upgrade program.

The customer service seems to be a tie with if anything the slight lead going to SVS.

Both woofers have similar output and I can't find overwhelming reports of one having better sound quality than the other. It seems reading posts from 2011 the favorite was the SVS. Seems lately the Rythmik is the favorite.

I need some help on these.

It looks like I'm going to be going with the original plan of JBL Pro 3677 for front stage and JBL Pro 8320 for surrounds. Need to get this sub thing figured out.

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post #2 of 60 Old 06-12-2013, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

SVS told me that I'd need a dedicated 15 amp circuit to run two of their ultra ported (it's a class D amp)
Rythmik told me I could throw both on with the rest of my gear. This doesn't sound right to me.
The Rythmik is a more efficient sub. It simply does not need as much juice to get as loud as the PB13 Ultra. Unless the rest of your gear is demanding on the circuit, the Rythmiks could work on a single circuit. Remember they are only using 600 watt RMS amps, yet they can produce greater output than the PB13.
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You also get the bonus of being able to control both subs with one amp however Rythmik said since I'm using LFE outputs (my AVR has 2 but they're Y'd on the inside) off my AVR that I don't need the slave control. Since my receiver will do it all for both anyways. BUT I have a Pioneer and Im not all that up on MCAAC yet. From what I understand it's lacking some sub EQ features. But, I'm not sure. Looking for some input on this.

Rythmik is right. There really isn't any reason to use a a slave network with these subs. Just use the sub outs on the AVR. There is no difference here.
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Overall amp quality and features. Seems like this goes to SVS. SVS also seems easier, more conventional which is what I'd be more familiar with. The Rythmik has the rumble filters, and some other features that I'm not familiar with, and others have noted as being time comsuming to dial in and/or figure out. I've also read over and over that the SVS EQ is more robust.

The Rythmik controls are no more time consuming or esoteric to figure out then the SVS controls. PEQs and filters are pretty easy to understand. Read the manual or ask in the Rythmik forum for an explanation. They can be handy features.
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post #3 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

SVS told me that I'd need a dedicated 15 amp circuit to run two of their ultra ported (it's a class D amp)
Rythmik told me I could throw both on with the rest of my gear. This doesn't sound right to me.

The Class D amp in the PB13-Ultra is quite efficient and only draws about 23W from the line at idle (about 0.5W in Standby mode). At loud playback levels, the amp will be pulling a few hundred watts from the line and rarely will hit peak draw of 1kW (and even then it would be very brief).

Circuit breakers are not current-limited per se - they are tripped thermally. A continuous draw device like a salon hair dryer or a vacuum cleaner will trip out a 15A breaker on occasion (I'm sure we've all dealt with that). Transient draw devices like audio amps rarely present a problem for a 15A circuit, even dual 1 kW subs.

With that said, as a matter of good practice I generally recommend isolating the HT system to its own dedicated circuit, because many houses have unbalanced loads and an existing circuit might already be taxed by other devices in the house. If you are running a BD player, an HD set-top box, an AVR, an external speaker amp, a video display/PJ, and dual 1000W subwoofers, a single 15A can probably take it, but I might lean toward a 20A for the whole system just for a cushion.

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post #4 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks both for your replies.

That's the one question I was going to ask of Shady J's response.

The ratio of power vs need for an extra circuit did not seem right. If 1200 watts RMS will work on a typical home circuit then why would 2000 watts RMS of efficient class D power need it's own dedicated line?

In any event it is very simple for me to add a one or two circuits via already ran line and existing outlets. I am however limited to 15 amp breakers due to the gauge of wire.

It was already the plan to have the theater on one circuit.

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post #5 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Thanks both for your replies.

That's the one question I was going to ask of Shady J's response.

The ratio of power vs need for an extra circuit did not seem right. If 1200 watts RMS will work on a typical home circuit then why would 2000 watts RMS of efficient class D power need it's own dedicated line?

In any event it is very simple for me to add a one or two circuits via already ran line and existing outlets. I am however limited to 15 amp breakers due to the gauge of wire.

It was already the plan to have the theater on one circuit.

A dedicated 15A circuit will be fine for any typical HT system even with dual 1kW subs. While opinions vary, generally when sizing up the potential load on an AC circuit, I take the rated power of all transient (not steady state) devices and divide by 4 for a reasonably accurate estimate of the average power draw at moderate to loud playback levels. A pair of PB13U at loud playback levels on an action movie or music with a steady bass line might be pulling ~500W from the line on average.

I have a pair of PB12-Ultra/2 (each 1kW), a Denon 110W x 7 (maybe 400W true max power) AVR, and three Outlaw monoblocks 300W @ 4 ohms (so 900W total) and I have never tripped a 20A circuit breaker on any source material, even at obscene playback levels. There is simply no way this system will ever pull 20A from that line long enough to trip a breaker on normal music/movie source material.

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post #6 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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How long has Rythmik been in business selling subs?

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post #7 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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It appears based on these charts that the SVS has less distortion. Am I reading this right?




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post #8 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 04:26 PM
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yes but as it has been mentioned before that lower order harmonics are not audible unless its a crazy amount of distortion. SVS focuses heavily on less than 10% THD in sacrafice of output. If you do some research on SVS, many folks run into the subs limiter very easily. Almost every other ID company sub will show more distortion but in the real world you will never hear it. The FV15HP is a much better bang for the buck sub with better output in most of the FR range.
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post #9 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm in a 2856 ^3 room. The main listening area is 16x15, the L area of the room is behind the seating. Room is sealed with the close of one door. I don't think I'm really struggling with the output of either speaker.

And bang for the buck isn't much when it's only a 343.00 difference assuming I didn't get the upgraded amps for the Rythmik.

I think at this point, between the two subs, I'm comparing everything but output.

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post #10 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

yes but as it has been mentioned before that lower order harmonics are not audible unless its a crazy amount of distortion. SVS focuses heavily on less than 10% THD in sacrafice of output. If you do some research on SVS, many folks run into the subs limiter very easily. Almost every other ID company sub will show more distortion but in the real world you will never hear it. The FV15HP is a much better bang for the buck sub with better output in most of the FR range.

Geez I don’t know Bass. I know back in the day it used to be a issue, but I haven't really noticed a problem these days. Well unless we're talking a NSD in a large room or something like that. I have done a lot of dB racing with quite a few of their models and in most cases I would venture to say 1-2 will get the job done quite well. confused.gif

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post #11 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:00 PM
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Sounds like you have already made your mind up (check avatar). Why fight it? Either sub in dual forn in that sized doom will decimate your hearing.

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post #12 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

Sounds like you have already made your mind up (check avatar). Why fight it? Either sub in dual forn in that sized doom will decimate your hearing.

I understand, but if you new what subs I have ran, built, bought and suggest.. you would have come to a different conclusion.

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post #13 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:17 PM
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Geez I don’t know Bass. I know back in the day it used to be a issue, but I haven't really noticed a problem these days. Well unless we're talking a NSD in a large room or something like that. I have done a lot of dB racing with quite a few of their models and in most cases I would venture to say 1-2 will get the job done quite well. confused.gif

Oh Im sure 2 pb13 will get the job done in the op's room...I was just sayin that I have read quite a few threads where folks report getting into the limiter on SVS subs. Maybe it was the plus or nsd...my apologies for the confusion.
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post #14 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like you have already made your mind up (check avatar). Why fight it? Either sub in dual forn in that sized doom will decimate your hearing.

Lol... I have not. I just like to look at that sub. I can't say I'm not leaning towards the SVS, but my mind is not made up.

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I understand, but if you new what subs I have ran, built, bought and suggest.. you might have come to a different conclusion.

Huh? And , FYI- you're double posting your posts.

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I'm in a 2856 ^3 room. The main listening area is 16x15, the L area of the room is behind the seating. Room is sealed with the close of one door. I don't think I'm really struggling with the output of either speaker.

And bang for the buck isn't much when it's only a 343.00 difference assuming I didn't get the upgraded amps for the Rythmik.

I think at this point, between the two subs, I'm comparing everything but output.

so 343.00 is not much? I guess if I had your money I would burn mine. how are you getting such a discount?

2 Rythmik FV15HP's are 2574.00 shipped.

2 PB13U's are around 3800.00 are they not?
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post #16 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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so 343.00 is not much? I guess if I had your money I would burn mine. how are you getting such a discount?

2 Rythmik FV15HP's are 2574.00 shipped.

2 PB13U's are around 3800.00 are they not?

In the grand scheme of things, considering I'll have these for years, no . .. 343.00 is not much. I will not upgrade subs as I would..... say a projector. That said 343.00 is still 343.00 and that is the point of asking the community for information. I need to decide, for me, if the extra cost is worth.

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post #17 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:34 PM
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In the grand scheme of things, considering I'll have these for years, no . .. 343.00 is not much. I will not upgrade subs as I would..... say a projector. That said 343.00 is still 343.00 and that is the point of asking the community for information. I need to decide, for me, if the extra cost is worth.

how did you come up with 343 dollars? Is that each? from what I see they are about 12xx.00 difference on a pair.
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post #18 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 05:39 PM
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Huh? And , FYI- you're double posting your posts.


I was not responding to you. Once you refresh your screen it will take care of the 2-4 same post. I don’t know why my posts do that, but they do clear after refresh.

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post #19 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 06:14 PM
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In the grand scheme of things, considering I'll have these for years, no . .. 343.00 is not much. I will not upgrade subs as I would..... say a projector. That said 343.00 is still 343.00 and that is the point of asking the community for information. I need to decide, for me, if the extra cost is worth.

If you were order dual PB13-Ultra's in the piano finish they come to $3800 shipped, the FV15HP's are under $3200 shipped in the piano finish.

If you're not going with the piano finish the savings is quite a bit more because SVS charges the same price for either the black oak finish or piano finish when Rythmik charges more for the piano finish.

Where are you getting this $343.00 from?
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post #20 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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how did you come up with 343 dollars? Is that each? from what I see they are about 12xx.00 difference on a pair.

No total, shipped for 2. The price was offered to me.

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I was not responding to you. Once you refresh your screen it will take care of the 2-4 same post. I don’t know why my posts do that, but they do clear after refresh.

Weird on the double post deal. I didn't think you were responding to me, but I still didn't understand.

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No total, shipped for 2. The price was offered to me.
Weird on the double post deal. I didn't think you were responding to me, but I still didn't understand.

So SVS is selling you dual PB13-Ultra's for less then $3800?
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post #22 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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If you were order dual PB13-Ultra's in the piano finish they come to $3800 shipped, the FV15HP's are under $3200 shipped in the piano finish.

If you're not going with the piano finish the savings is quite a bit more because SVS charges the same price for either the black oak finish or piano finish when Rythmik charges more for the piano finish.

Where are you getting this $343.00 from?

Actually the Rythmiks in piano finish is 2974.00 shipped. This is one of the differences I am considering, along with amps, customer service/support, longevity, time in business, sound quality, and build quality, how likely is it each company will be around in 10 years, to certain degree servo tech vs. non servo tech, etc. etc. etc.

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post #23 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 06:43 PM
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Weird on the double post deal. I didn't think you were responding to me, but I still didn't understand.


I guess I was just being bitchy concerning my mind being already made up concerning my avatar. Sorry for the sidetrack.

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post #24 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I was just being bitchy concerning my mind being already made up concerning my avatar. Sorry for the sidetrack.

I get it now. I think that original comment was directed at me. We seem to have the same avatar! wink.gif

PS- no worries.

If we can get past avatars and prices maybe I can get some info to put my eyes and mind to rest. I've been reading for days, and today alone since about 8 am.

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post #25 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:03 PM
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I get it now. I think that original comment was directed at me. We seem to have the same avatar! wink.gif

PS- no worries.

If we can get past avatars and prices maybe I can get some info to put my eyes and mind to rest. I've been reading for days, and today alone since about 8 am.
Sounds like you are suffering from a major case of paralysis by over analysis.

One question.........how do you plan to use your subs? When I am talking about is percentage movie to music. If you listen at all to music or watch concerts, the servo technology in the Rythmik is something to consider as it really tightens up the bass when set to high damping.

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
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post #26 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

I get it now. I think that original comment was directed at me. We seem to have the same avatar! wink.gif

PS- no worries.

If we can get past avatars and prices maybe I can get some info to put my eyes and mind to rest. I've been reading for days, and today alone since about 8 am.
Sounds like you are suffering from a major case of paralysis by over analysis.

One question.........how do you plan to use your subs? What I am talking about is percentage movie to music. If you listen at all to music or watch concerts, the servo technology in the Rythmik is something to consider as it really tightens up the bass when set to high damping. Also, servo technology is supposed to help reduce the distorsion factor.

He (or she) who dies with the most HT gear doesn't win anything. They're DEAD!
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post #27 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:07 PM
 
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The ratio of power vs need for an extra circuit did not seem right. If 1200 watts RMS will work on a typical home circuit then why would 2000 watts RMS of efficient class D power need it's own dedicated line?

This data on circuit breakers will give you insight as to how much current a breaker can handle and for how long.

Series C F-frame circuit breaker time current curves

Look to page three for information regarding 15A breakers.
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post #28 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:08 PM
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Actually the Rythmiks in piano finish is 2974.00 shipped. This is one of the differences I am considering, along with amps, customer service/support, longevity, time in business, sound quality, and build quality, how likely is it each company will be around in 10 years, to certain degree servo tech vs. non servo tech, etc. etc. etc.

Even in piano black there is a 9xx.00 difference, The FV15HP is a much better buy. also there is no amp option, they come standard with 600watt servo amps. Also the Rythmik will be alot more musical from what I have read over at audioholics.

Again what is the total price you were quoted for 2 piano black PB13U's?
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post #29 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:09 PM
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Yeah you have a really tough decition to make. I would interject but in the end it's up to you. Imo you can't go wrong no matter what your choice is. I recognise there might be some other dilimas that you (might?) be considering in the back of your head also?? cool.gif
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I don't think I'm really struggling with the output of either speaker.

No not at all.

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post #30 of 60 Old 06-13-2013, 07:22 PM
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I guess I was just being bitchy concerning my mind being already made up concerning my avatar. Sorry for the sidetrack.

O was referring to the OP's avatar, not yours. He made a thread asking what sub he should buy between Rythmik and SVS. He has a SVS woofer as his avatar. I have no idea what sub is in your avatar. Mine is a Rythmik FV15HP gloss black. I hope that clears things up a little;)

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