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post #61 of 88 Old 06-18-2013, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Okay, so now I'm glad I'm not your UPS driver OR your neighbor.

Oops. Sorry, that would be max measurements at +/-0dBFS. tongue.gif

Normal playback levels are in the measured, 65dB to 88dB range and the MVC is set to -20dBFS.
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post #62 of 88 Old 06-18-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Point of clarification as to what I posted; Kilo Hz (kHz), not Hz.

I totally missed that. Sorry.
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Regarding your above, what folks here have posted, sound engineers master the tracks to take your above into consideration so all us mortals have to do is EQ our systems flat and the Phon Curve will automatically be taken into consideration.

How does that work? Because if the master track is boosted as the frequency decreases, then wouldn't things like audyssey pick up the gain at lower frequencies and eq them out? Or is Audyssey smart enough to know not to touch the lower frequency boost?
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post #63 of 88 Old 06-18-2013, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How does that work? Because if the master track is boosted as the frequency decreases, then wouldn't things like audyssey pick up the gain at lower frequencies and eq them out? Or is Audyssey smart enough to know not to touch the lower frequency boost?

It's a sort of zero sum measurement as Audyssey is dealing with what's coming out of the speakers,........after the fact of what's done at the mixing board.

In the beginning, my thinking was your thinking and then it was explained that the sound track takes this into consideration and by EQ'g flat, we're recreating the final product the board engineers create and hear.

Just to be fair, compared to the conditions those guys work in, we're pretty much lucky we can see and hear anything. tongue.gif

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post #64 of 88 Old 06-19-2013, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The deep infrasonic stuff is not audible, it's tactile. You don't hear it, you feel it. If it is missing, you won't FEEL it. If you go to a buddy's house and watch something you're familiar with, and the tactile is missing... you'll notice it. OTOH, if it's your first time viewing the content, and you don't already know what it's supposed to FEEL like. you won't miss it because you won't know that it's supposed to be there.
 

Ignorance is bliss. Cheaper, too. wink.gif

I'm still playing around with my new ButtKicker. I've enjoyed the Dolby "Spheres" demo (1) [if you're not familiar with the site, click "trailer download"] for its great surround effects. However, I just learned that the third ball out of the chute hits with a solid "thunk," like it's steel. The fireworks have a kick, too.

Lots of fun! biggrin.gif

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post #65 of 88 Old 06-19-2013, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ignorance is bliss. Cheaper, too. wink.gif

Makes one believe that a set of Sennheiser RS-180's and a Buttkicker is a more rational approach.
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post #66 of 88 Old 06-19-2013, 07:55 AM
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Sorry, wrong place for "rational."

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post #67 of 88 Old 06-19-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lost my head there for a second. tongue.gif

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post #68 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 10:42 AM
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I know you have been thinking of upgrading for some time now and have considered many different ways to go about it. My opinion has changed over time. I’m totally happy at say around 15-18Hz with authority. I have had better and I’ve had less capable. If it weren't for this forum I would have been happy with the last sub (or two) that I just bought. You know the sub... Ignorance has it’s bright side. I have seen many turn around and seek more after being so happy with what they just bought... great subs in their own rite. If it gets to bad, that’s when DIY becomes so attractive. (or maybe I should say one of the reasons) Imo if you shot for around 15-18Hz you would be quite well off. If you’re a sub addict/hobby as some, it just won’t matter what you have or buy. (I don’t think you are) I think you watch you pennies from knowing your posting style but want a good capable system.

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post #69 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

I know you have been thinking of upgrading for some time now and have considered many different ways to go about it.

Currently, our main impediment is the Feds and Congress and each not having the ability to get out of the others way and how the Fed effect is affecting everybody's 401(k).

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My opinion has changed over time. I’m totally happy at say around 15-18Hz with authority. I have had better and I’ve had less capable. If it weren't for this forum I would have been happy with the last sub (or two) that I just bought. You know the sub... Ignorance has it’s bright side. I have seen many turn around and seek more after being so happy with what they just bought... great subs in their own rite. If it gets to bad, that’s when DIY becomes so attractive. (or maybe I should say one of the reasons) Imo if you shot for around 15-18Hz you would be quite well off. If you’re a sub addict/hobby as some, it just won’t matter what you have or buy. (I don’t think you are) I think you watch you pennies from knowing your posting style but want a good capable system.

The goal is to buy once and "fir-git about it." And yes, being retired has engendered an appreciation for penny watching. It's a rather interesting retirement sport. The goal being to outlast the government's ability to create life destroying inflation (which they'll never admit to) and still have enough left over to buy more than just the basics; oxygen and water as carbon is now considered a luxury.

(sorry for the diatribe) cool.gif
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post #70 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Currently, our main impediment is the Feds and Congress and each not having the ability to get out of the others way and how the Fed effect is affecting everybody's 401(k).
The goal is to buy once and "fir-git about it." And yes, being retired has engendered an appreciation for penny watching. It's a rather interesting retirement sport. The goal being to outlast the government's ability to create life destroying inflation (which they'll never admit to) and still have enough left over to buy more than just the basics; oxygen and water as carbon is now considered a luxury.

(sorry for the diatribe) cool.gif

I hear you. I'm in the beginning of my career and fully realize that I'll probably never be able to retire comfortably. I might be able to squeak by on a montly basis(like most retirees seem to be doing now) but I'd much rather continue working as long as possibly than resort back to only affording bologna and air sandwiches. Just have to hope by health allows me to work till the end. Ha.

Have you thought about selling your current subs to try and afford a DIY solution? You have two RW12-Ds right? Selling those alone might give you a jump start on a pair of Dayton 15"s with an EP4000.

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post #71 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 01:02 PM
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Ah Bee.. Ha Ha! I’m afraid of the truth to what your saying. biggrin.gif

Anyway when you do upgrade, I have no doubt that will be that! Since it will most likely be the three sub rout and I doubt you listen at reference.. I don’t see the need of going to far with it.. well unless you want bragging rites! The Hemm with that, we're to old for that.. It’s not worth it!!

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post #72 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This sounds lame but I don't resale anything. We'll trade a vehicle in but if it's not being taken in trade in, it's given to a charitable second hand store or a neighbor who will have use for what ever it is we no longer have need of.

If one is at the beginning of their career, they save, buy a house (even if out of the area of their work place), pay into Social Security, Medicare and a "ROTH IRA" (not to be confused with a 401(k)), they'll do fine in retirement. They just won't have the freedom to be as fiscally reckless as when they were in their younger days. One automatically adjusts to penny pinching as they decide what isn't needed and they come to realize they can shop at the bargain stores and it's all the same.

As soon as the market recovers (for us, about three to six months) from the latest round of "Fed effect," we'll be looking at moving forward with our subwoofer needs. I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up something along the lines of a Rythmik, F25, a PSA, XV30f or a XS30.
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post #73 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 01:16 PM
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. I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up something along the lines of a Rythmik, F25, a PSA, XV30f or a XS30.



Oh that’s rite. If I recall correctly you were going to intergrade relying on your mini??

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post #74 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 01:23 PM
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This sounds lame but I don't resale anything. We'll trade a vehicle in but if it's not being taken in trade in, it's given to a charitable second hand store or a neighbor who will have use for what ever it is we no longer have need of.

If one is at the beginning of their career, they save, buy a house (even if out of the area of their work place), pay into Social Security, Medicare and a "ROTH IRA" (not to be confused with a 401(k)), they'll do fine in retirement. They just won't have the freedom to be as fiscally reckless as when they were in their younger days. One automatically adjusts to penny pinching as they decide what isn't needed and they come to realize they can shop at the bargain stores and it's all the same.

As soon as the market recovers (for us, about three to six months) from the latest round of "Fed effect," we'll be looking at moving forward with our subwoofer needs. I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up something along the lines of a Rythmik, F25, a PSA, XV30f or a XS30.

Yeah, I was never given the freedom to be fiscally reckless. That's also why I would like to keep working through retirement to finally be able to waste a bit of money I couldn't/can't in my younger days. Ha.

Nice. I'm sure any of those subs would bring you where you want to be.

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post #75 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As soon as the market recovers (for us, about three to six months) from the latest round of "Fed effect," we'll be looking at moving forward with our subwoofer needs. I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up something along the lines of a Rythmik, F25, a PSA, XV30f or a XS30.

Can I talk you into a ButtKicker LFE?

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post #76 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's also why I would like to keep working through retirement...

Just saying, working through retirement, isn't retirement and no matter how one tries to rationalize working, work takes away from more important things like taking a nap after a lunch, after working in your yard, while the rest of the world..........is at work. tongue.gif

Let's see......do I think about work or do I think about subwoofers? What should I think about today? biggrin.gif
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post #77 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can I talk you into a ButtKicker LFE?
wink.gif

It actually has appeal.
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post #78 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 04:24 PM
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Just saying, working through retirement, isn't retirement and no matter how one tries to rationalize working, work takes away from more important things like taking a nap after a lunch, after working in your yard, while the rest of the world..........is at work. tongue.gif

Let's see......do I think about work or do I think about subwoofers? What should I think about today? biggrin.gif

Ha yeah. I can see the appeal of retirement. But being realistic and knowing SS won't be around by the time I get to retire, I only have two options.

Work and continue to earn a decent living on top of the money I do have saved. This would allow me to buy toys.

Or retire and have to pinch pennies while only thinking about toys.

I say this now though, when I'm 30 years away from retirement. So my feelings might change.

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post #79 of 88 Old 06-21-2013, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I say this now though, when I'm 30 years away from retirement. So my feelings might change.

If you open a ROTH IRA, buy dividend paying stocks and add to the IRA on a regular basis, buy a house or condo, pay into Social Security and Medicare, get married and don't get divorced, in thirty-years, move to a cheaper location in the mountains and you'll do just fine.

(forgive my above thinking. It's old school and is not well connected with what those just starting out have to deal with)

With that in mind, it seems the answer to my question is, for the money, get as deep as you can get and "fer-git-about-it."

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post #80 of 88 Old 06-22-2013, 04:23 AM
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SS will always be around. The FED can create USD out of thin air to pay it if necessary. You may not be able to buy as much with it, but it will be there.

You need to diversify your investments if possible. The recent stock market ramp is entirely due to central bank printing and has nothing to do with any sort of economic recovery. If you just stick with buying large cap US dividend paying stocks, you'll likely be burned well before you retire. You need some precious metals (which are screaming cheap at the moment) and foreign equities in the mix.
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post #81 of 88 Old 06-22-2013, 09:40 AM
 
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Tom V. and I had this conversation a few times via emails because I too am curious what sub 10hz extension would be like. He told me that the amount of source content that delivers sub 15hz is very small


I have been saying that all along. It is not practical and in my opinion outright wasteful to spend$$ chasing 15hz (something that you can't even hear), it makes no sense.
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post #82 of 88 Old 06-22-2013, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have been saying that all along. It is not practical and in my opinion outright wasteful to spend$$ chasing 15hz (something that you can't even hear), it makes no sense.

I tried to convince my wife of the exact same thing when it came time to put some glittery stones in her ear lobes. tongue.gif

When I conceded that obviously I was wrong, the smile came back to her face.
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post #83 of 88 Old 06-23-2013, 08:18 AM
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Tom V. and I had this conversation a few times via emails because I too am curious what sub 10hz extension would be like. He told me that the amount of source content that delivers sub 15hz is very small


I have been saying that all along. It is not practical and in my opinion outright wasteful to spend$$ chasing 15hz (something that you can't even hear), it makes no sense.

I agree! 15-20 with authority works fine by me. I put 15 at the stretch point myself.

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post #84 of 88 Old 06-25-2013, 08:10 AM
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Well if this is some what in reply to my post then there is a few things I want to touch up on. Fwiw I can afford more sub, actually I was talking to Tom about exchanging the xv15's for dual xs30's. He is the one that said anything below 15hz is diminishing returns because there is not that much source content below that. So why would he tell me that when he had the chance to upsell me? Now from what I understand there is a percentage of source out there that drops below 15hz, but when you average it, its a small percentage. Chopping off the upper frequencies is a apple to oranges comparison since about 99% of all sources uses those frequencies. So point being even if you can afford more is it really worth it?

Its no different than horsepower...some guys like to have 1000hp street cars because it sounds cool and its bragging rights...when in reality 500hp will get the job done because its almost impossible to get traction on the street with more power. Were back to the diminishing returns thing again.

^ This pretty much works, here. Little- and I do mean little- in the American male world is more heavily engrossed in specsmanship and spending (time, money and space) on "performance" that will rarely- if ever- be used than the 1-10hz spectrum of audio. Cars, homes, and boats I suppose, but that's too easy. tongue.gif And this is coming from a guy with a pretty capable sub system...go figure.

Imperatively, no one in their right mind contends the "content" doesn't exist, of course- it's simply when and how often. Music? Forget it. Yes there's BASS SONGS, now what about music? I'm pretty damn sure a modern pipe organ stunts at 10.

Movies? Sure. Go ahead and pick out any 100 you'd like and tell me if you have 200 seconds of sub 10hz content in ALL of them, combined, at the end of the day...but I digress.

Then there's the subject of audibility- and even more crucially- the ability to appreciate- such output. I won't even touch this one. The room shakes = "I love it". vs I can't hear it = "what's the point?" Have fun.

People are free to think and choose what they will. I'm free to think Johnathan Lucroy is the best catcher in Major League baseball. Thoughts (and opinions) are free...their foundation in reality is something a bit different but people make their own realities all the time.

Mine in this case: it sure seems to me like authoritative 15-20hz response gets you at least 99.7% of the way home.

Good luck,

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #85 of 88 Old 06-25-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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People are free to think and choose what they will. I'm free to think Johnathan Lucroy is the best catcher in Major League baseball.

tongue.gif Yes you are. tongue.gif

And thanks for the thoughts regarding how low does one need to go.
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post #86 of 88 Old 06-27-2013, 06:35 AM
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....If it weren't for this forum I would have been happy with the last sub (or two) that I just bought. ......

Boy did you say a mouthful! biggrin.gif

I don't even want to know how much money I've spent on upgrades over the years due to reading these forums. Granted, the upgrades did net appreciable improvements, but until I read about it on a forum I didn't know about such improvements. biggrin.gifwink.gif

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post #87 of 88 Old 06-27-2013, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's a hobby. Ya either spend it on a bass boat, lap dances or subwoofers. I don't fish and my wife doesn't like the idea of me enjoying lap dances so I'm left with subwoofers and subwoofers have a unique way of keeping you home. tongue.gif
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post #88 of 88 Old 06-27-2013, 07:06 AM
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Boy did you say a mouthful! biggrin.gif

I don't even want to know how much money I've spent on upgrades over the years due to reading these forums. Granted, the upgrades did net appreciable improvements, but until I read about it on a forum I didn't know about such improvements. biggrin.gifwink.gif

I hear you Sat. There are so many new SW out that I would like to try but I know from experience not to anymore. Well I did just buy the 12D on a lark, so I guess I’m not being totally honest. It sounds like you need a upgrade in the SW dept. though. So imo you’re doing the rite thing. I see you’re looking at the F, that would be a great upgrade, plus stay in style with what your sort of used to. I was not surprised..

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