The "Open Range" Shootout scene after 1st Major shot fired - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 06-17-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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As I am sure most people who follow bass movies know, the movie "Open Range" has an epic pistol shot scene at the latter part of the DVD. It leaves quite an impression. After that initial shot, however, many shots are fired by both pistols and rifles. Until recently, I have not paid too much attention to whether the pistol fire and rifle shots were distinguishable from one another.

My question is this:

When your system plays "Open Range," directly after the first epic gun shot (for a period of about 1 minute after), do the gun shots from the pistols and rifles sound noticeably different or similiar?

I am attempting to discover if even the perfect system would play the scene the way that your eyes and ears would expect, or if the sound editors decided that everything but a shotgun blast (which does take place later in that long extended scene) would just sound the same.

Thanks everyone!
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post #2 of 11 Old 06-17-2013, 01:44 PM
 
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Other than a how-d-doo, got nothing other than that was a great Western story worth watching over and over again.

All the actors/actresses were at their best in this movie.

(I've only watched on Comcast provided content with the subs turned off: not on BluRay.....with the subs turned on)

And yes, the brain is able to tell the differences in the amount of powder burn behind a caliber and it ticks me off when someone tries to pass a .50 off as a .30 cal and vise-a-verse.

Can't say about black powder other than yes, to those that know, it makes a difference and shame on sound engineers who don't care.
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post #3 of 11 Old 06-17-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

When your system plays "Open Range," directly after the first epic gun shot (for a period of about 1 minute after), do the gun shots from the pistols and rifles sound noticeably different or similiar?
That depends on how knowledgeable the guys on the Foley stage were. Most Winchesters and Henrys of that era were carbines, using pistol loads. The '92 made famous by 'The Rifleman' used .44-40 pistol ammunition, which was the standard load going back to the '73. The Winchester .44-40 was an updated version of the Henry .44. The longer barrel gave a different sound than a pistol, but they sounded a lot closer to pistols than they did to those using .30-30 or .45-70. Hunters used full size rifles, but the average person/cowboy preferred the smaller, lighter and easier to handle carbines. If their handguns were also .44-40 they only had to buy one cartridge to fit both weapons.

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post #4 of 11 Old 06-17-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies BeeMan and Bill. After reading Bill's post, it seems like the guns utilized in that scene may be both utilizing pistol shot. Perhaps it is I who is uneducated on how similiar the pistol and rifles utilized in that scene. I was simply thinking that a rifle shot should sound more forceful (and with a distinctly different sound) than a pistol during this shoot out. If the 2 guns are intended to sound simliar, then that would be interesting.
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post #5 of 11 Old 06-17-2013, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post

If the 2 guns are intended to sound simliar, then that would be interesting.
Only the director knows, and that depends on how well it was researched by his technical adviser. Usually rifles are made to sound more 'substantial' than handguns, but probably just because it's assumed that they should. A Spencer or Springfield would sound like a cannon compared to a Colt or Remington, but the average Winchester, Henry or Marlin wouldn't.

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post #6 of 11 Old 06-17-2013, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Bill. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge about the subject!
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post #7 of 11 Old 06-18-2013, 11:31 AM
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A firearm discharge could never be accurately reproduced by a home audio system, since the near-field SPL is typically 160-180 dB (depending on the firearm and caliber), with a spectral frequency signature primarily in the midrange frequencies.

DVD mixing engineers compensate for this by adding a bunch of deep bass to the firearm discharge signature to convey a sense of punch and impact. I'll concur with Bill that a typical listener expects a shotgun blast to have more 'impact' than a handgun discharge, so the mixing engineers accordingly add more bass to the shotgun discharge signature.

Anyone who has spent a lot of time around gun ranges and is familiar with the true/actual sonic signature of various types firearms knows that gun discharges in movies sound nothing like the real deal - and that's actually a good thing.
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post #8 of 11 Old 06-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

A firearm discharge could never be accurately reproduced by a home audio system, since the near-field SPL is typically 160-180 dB (depending on the firearm and caliber).
I've never measured it, but I doubt it's that high, not at 1 meter anyway. But it is high enough that you need ear protection, even if it's only a .22, so if they were reproduced at actual level, and your system could handle it, you'd need ear protection, which would detract from the rest of the movie soundtrack. mad.gif
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the mixing engineers accordingly add more bass to the shotgun discharge signature.
They add more bass to everything, substituting low frequency extension for volume. The shots you hear on TV shows are more realistic than those in movies, because there's less dubbing. As often as not TV shows don't dub at all, so you may hear the actual sound of the blanks they use. But since the actors aren't wearing ear protection either those blanks are quarter-loads.

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post #9 of 11 Old 06-18-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

Anyone who has spent a lot of time around gun ranges and is familiar with the true/actual sonic signature of various types firearms knows that gun discharges in movies sound nothing like the real deal - and that's actually a good thing.

+1. Even though one of my favorite demo scenes is the street gunfight in The Book of Eli, the guns in that scene sound very different in real life.

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post #10 of 11 Old 06-18-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I've never measured it, but I doubt it's that high, not at 1 meter anyway.

The majority of centerfire handgun rounds check-in around the mid-150s, with magnum pistol cartridges in the mid-160s. Most centerfire rifle and shotguns are in the mid 160s. Big magnum rifle cartridges like the .416 Barrett and .50 BMG all push mid/high 170s. These are all near-field measured by the shooter. Gunfire frequencies are rather directional - so SPL immediately downrange of the muzzle will be even higher. If a muzzle brake is installed, max SPL to the sides of the muzzle increases substantially also.

The spectral frequency distribution of gunfire is rather wide (spanning many octaves), but contains the most energy in the 500-5 kHz band, with comparatively far less <100 Hz in the bass bandwidth. Despite what Hollywood would like us to believe, gunfire contains very little bass content.

This recent NIOSH study is quite good - very comprehensive. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2011-0069-3140.pdf Suffice it to say, I wear double protection (plugs and muffs) whenever I'm shooting firearms as immediate and permanent damage can otherwise result.
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post #11 of 11 Old 06-18-2013, 02:54 PM
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here ya go - http://silencertalk.com/results.htm

& yes, it'd take gobs of power & surface area
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