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post #1 of 41 Old 07-02-2013, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi.

Im getting a klipsch system around the rf-62 and orginally thought of the rw-12d that has a design that matches the rf series. Also liked the sw-115 with its 15" cone.

I live in europe so im not sure those sub direct brands like svs are available here and dont want to spwnd more than 500 euros.

Any recommenadtions?

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post #2 of 41 Old 07-02-2013, 10:02 PM
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Go with RW-12D. SW-115 is plain rubbish. I have used SW-115 for 2 weeks. The moment I plugged it in, I knew I had wasted my money. But somehow I was able to get rid of it. Do not be fooled by the 15" cone and 400 watts rms amp. For a box that size, it requires at least 800 watts rms amp. The bass from SW-115 is flabby, sloppy, slow, and highly uncontrolled. Try and watch Flight of the Phoenix crash scene and you would know what I mean. This sub is not for movies and performs equally bad in music. Terrible mistake from such a high profile company.

RW-12D, on the other hand, is like Sub-12 on steroids. Sub-12 was a great bargain sub that offered tremendous value for the price. I have used Sub-12 for 3 years and trust me it was more powerful than SW-115.

I reckon you audition SW-115 and RW-12D, and um sure you will be a happy camper with the later.

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Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #3 of 41 Old 07-02-2013, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Go with RW-12D. SW-115 is plain rubbish. I have used SW-115 for 2 weeks. The moment I plugged it in, I knew I had wasted my money. But somehow I was able to get rid of it. Do not be fooled by the 15" cone and 400 watts rms amp. For a box that size, it requires at least 800 watts rms amp. The bass from SW-115 is flabby, sloppy, slow, and highly uncontrolled. Try and watch Flight of the Phoenix crash scene and you would know what I mean. This sub is not for movies and performs equally bad in music. Terrible mistake from such a high profile company.

RW-12D, on the other hand, is like Sub-12 on steroids. Sub-12 was a great bargain sub that offered tremendous value for the price. I have used Sub-12 for 3 years and trust me it was more powerful than SW-115.

I reckon you audition SW-115 and RW-12D, and um sure you will be a happy camper with the later.

Wow. Didnt expect that...thanks. thats saves me a lot of money too.

Any other options in the rw-12d performance level AND its performance?

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post #4 of 41 Old 07-02-2013, 10:59 PM
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Any other options in the rw-12d performance level AND its performance?

I think the only sub from Klipsch that could take on ID big boys head to head was RSW-15. It was one bada$$ sub. Unfortunately it is not manufactured anymore. Check if you can find one used. Apart from that sub-12 is a good value and RW-12D is even better.

Stay away from SW series from Klipsch. On a side note if you can jack up your budget, PSB SubSeries 300 is an excellent sub. I am using one. It is the best sub I've ever heard. Do not go on the published specs, this sub easily digs down to 22-23Hz with bone rattling impact both for music and movies.

Just to give you a hint, it murders Def Tech Supercube Reference in each and every bass department at roughly half the price. I would reckon an audition. And I'm sure if you can afford, you won't be able to pass it.

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post #5 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Stay away from SW series from Klipsch.
Have you heard the SW450 before? What's your opinion?
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post #6 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 03:11 AM
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Nope and trust me you wont like to either after hearing PSB S300

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #7 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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What about the SVS PB12-NSD? is that a good sub?
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post #8 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

What about the SVS PB12-NSD? is that a good sub?

Haven't had experience with SVS. But I have owned DefTech SuperCube Reference, Klipsch (SW115, SW112. SUB-12, KSW-10), Dual Dayton 390 HO DIY, Alpine DIY, and have auditioned JMLabs Electra SW 1000 Be, REL Stentor, REL Gibralter G1, and currently own PSB SubSeries 300.

Of all the lot, PSB rocks big time. It is the most accurate, cleanest, and hardest hitting sub for both music and movies. None of the listed above have all these traits.

I know it may come as a surprise to all, but toss the specs in the bin. Auditioning will dawn a new sonic horizon on you. With just 300 watts RMS and a net 1.18 cu ft internal volume, this lil jewel pumps out some unbelievably serious shockwaves down to 22-23Hz. The word resonance does not exist in PSB's dictionary.

I've read a review where somebody compared PSB S500 (flagship sub) with JL Fathom F112, Velodyne DD-15, and SVS PB12 Plus. PSB just smoked all of them.

Here is the review. Though it is for S500, but s300 is no slouch either and is a shadow of its bigger brother.

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/subwoofers/psb-speakers/subseries-500/prd_464691_2741crx.aspx

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post #9 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 07:26 AM
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What about the SVS PB12-NSD? is that a good sub?

Yes it's a good sub! Not considered the most for your $$ but well respected and does a nice job. It has a +-3dB down to 18 Hz, so she digs. http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd PSA would be considered the most sub for your $$ by many in that price range.
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x

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post #10 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 07:31 AM
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blue13x, where are you based??

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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It’s easy to find loud subs but performing loud down low is a different story. That’s why you will see a +- down to around 25 Hz in the specs and many specs are fudged at that. smile.gif

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post #12 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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blue13x, where are you based??

The Netherlands.

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post #13 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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So what is the sub to get when it comes to performance/price.

I was orginally going for the Klipsch Rw-12d, but its hard to find now.

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post #14 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 07:57 AM
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I had long left buying turnkey subs and been doing DIY for quite some time. Was using dual Dayton HO 15 having 6 cu ft net internal volume, ported and tuned to 20Hz. My in-room response was flat to 13Hz after taming a couple of peaks and dips with BFD. Was getting 116dB at 17hz in my room eek.gif. Been feeding them 1100 watts each from iNuke 6000 DSP.

But after auditioning PSB S300, I bought the sub within a week and have retired the DIY duals since. Getting down to lowest octaves with high SPL is one thing, but doing that cleanly and without distortion is altogether a different ball game.

I thought I was never gona go back to turnkey option, but I was so wrong. PSB changed it all for me. IMO $1000 for this kind of jaw-dropping performance with the smallest possible footprint in a ported design and with just 19 kg weight is something rare and unheard of.

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post #15 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

So what is the sub to get when it comes to performance/price.

I was orginally going for the Klipsch Rw-12d, but its hard to find now.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I would strongly recommend to audition PSB SubSeries 300 if your pocket allows. You should find PSB in Holland. I think it was 850 Euros a year ago when I went to Germany. Buy a quality sub once, and be merry. Though, bass is never enough wink.gif

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #16 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I had long left buying turnkey subs and been doing DIY for quite some time. Was using dual Dayton HO 15 having 6 cu ft net internal volume, ported and tuned to 20Hz. My in-room response was flat to 13Hz after taming a couple of peaks and dips with BFD. Was getting 116dB at 17hz in my room eek.gif. Been feeding them 1100 watts each from iNuke 6000 DSP.

But after auditioning PSB S300, I bought the sub within a week and have retired the DIY duals since. Getting down to lowest octaves with high SPL is one thing, but doing that cleanly and without distortion is altogether a different ball game.

I thought I was never gona go back to turnkey option, but I was so wrong. PSB changed it all for me. IMO $1000 for this kind of jaw-dropping performance with the smallest possible footprint in a ported design and with just 19 kg weight is something rare and unheard of.

Yeah I have went both directions in the past.. DIY and ID in many different forms. I noticed your thread concerning the PSB and it sounded like you were very impressed! smile.gif

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post #17 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:21 AM
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I have a hard time believing a 12" 300watt sub tuned to 27hz, is going come anywhere close to a pair of diy 15's properly setup...if that was the case everybody would be doing it? Am I missing something here?
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post #18 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:32 AM
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I have a hard time believing a 12" 300watt sub tuned to 27hz, is going come anywhere close to a pair of diy 15's properly setup...if that was the case everybody would be doing it? Am I missing something here?

I would really urge anybody and everybody to audition and you would know what I'm saying. I didn't believe it either, but I was so wrong. No wonder why I call PSB, PhysicS Bender. Mind you, the amps on SubSeries 300 and SubSeries 500 are developed by NAD. And NAD is famous for understating their wattage ratings.

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And NAD is famous for understating their wattage ratings. [/QUOTE

But even than that it won’t have that much affect in a enclosure that size. wink.gif

Your 15”s were HO’s weren't they?

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post #20 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:42 AM
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Am I missing something here?
Measured maximum SPL charts? There is a finite limit to what you can get out of any driver/enclosure/amplifier combination, and no, one cannot get around the laws of physics. When claims are made without the evidence to prove them they remain just that, claims.

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post #21 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:43 AM
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??

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #22 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:44 AM
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Measured maximum SPL charts? There is a finite limit to what you can get out of any driver/enclosure/amplifier combination, and no, one cannot get around the laws of physics. When claims are made without the evidence to prove them they remain just that, claims.

ok thats what I thought...thanks!
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post #23 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:49 AM
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??

Look at my and Bill's last post. smile.gif

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post #24 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 08:52 AM
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Ok time for REW measurements. Will run some sweeps and post em here. btw S300 smiles at the following;


- Knowing (Plane crash, Tube Wreck in the underground station, Final ending)
- Pearl Harbour (Japs attack)
- Pulse (Computer lab scene)
- FOTP (Plane crash)
- Master and Commander (Opening battle scene)
- Battle LA
- Saving Private Ryan
- Olympus Has Fallen

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #25 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Ok time for REW measurements. Will run some sweeps and post em here. btw S300 smiles at the following;


- Knowing (Plane crash, Tube Wreck in the underground station, Final ending)
- Pearl Harbour (Japs attack)
- Pulse (Computer lab scene)
- FOTP (Plane crash)
- Master and Commander (Opening battle scene)
- Battle LA
- Saving Private Ryan
- Olympus Has Fallen

REW measurements will not defy physics...if that psb300 even comes close to the output, extension, and sound quality of the diy 15's then they were setup wrong. There is no if and or buts about it...PSB can not do anything magical with a 12" sub, does not matter how much power it has. I am not bashing PSB either, but its obvious there was something amiss with those 15's.
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post #26 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 12:36 PM
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May be you are right. But I trust my ears more. I am not nuts to throw away $1000 just like that after having spent nearly $1800 on DIY stuff. I actually had everything shipped all the way from US to Pakistan at double the price including dual drivers (HO 15), gorilla glue, spax screws, gls audio 12 awg cable, neutrik speakon connectors and panel mounts, iNuke 6000 DSP, neodymium magnets for front grille, rca-to-xlr cables, and what not.
Only the mdf was procured locally, that too was imported from Malaysia but it is locally available. So, there has got to be a big reason why I shifted the paradigm. And Daytons are not the only DIY subs I built.

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post #27 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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How does that psb 300 comoare to the svs pb1000?
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post #28 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by blue13x View Post

How does that psb 300 comoare to the svs pb1000?

Heck it'll take out five ULTRA's! eek.gif


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post #29 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How does that psb 300 comoare to the svs pb1000?

Heck it'll take out five ULTRA's! eek.gif


I dont get it...how could the psb take on thr svs ultra

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post #30 of 41 Old 07-03-2013, 04:04 PM
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I dont get it...how could the psb take on thr svs ultra

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I'm just playing blue wink.gif The PB-1000 has a much lower tune and will play the lower freq where the PSB won't.

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