2nd sub to pair with SVS PB12 Plus - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 07-06-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently own a SVS PB12 Plus and love it, however I'm moving to a new house and the new theater (family) room is much larger. The dimensions are 37' x 18' x 9', so 5,994 cubic feet.

I've been told I'll need a second sub for that size of room, so I'm beginning to think about options.

I know for speakers it's recommended to stay with the same brand (at least for LCR), but I don't know if I need to stay with SVS for the 2nd sub or not. Not that I'm unhappy in any way with my SVS (I love it actually), but I'd like to see if I could save a little money and still end up with an awesome sub that will integrate well with the rest of my system.

All of my speakers are B&W.
Fronts - CM9's
Center - CMC2
Side surrounds - CM5's
Rear surrounds - nothing purchased yet as my old house didn't allow for a 7.1 setup. Any suggestions?

Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3000

Components
1). Blu-ray player
2). PS3
3). Directv box

Display
1). Samsung PN59D8000
2). Not yet purchased Epson 6020 projector

Nearly 99% of the time I will be watching TV or movies. I rarely listen to music at home.

Adding another PB12 Plus will cost $1,399 and a PB13 Ultra is 1,999.

Are there others that should be considered that will work well with my system in the same (or lower) price range that meets or exceeds the performance of those SVS's?

Samsung TV - PN59D8000 - wall mounted
HW50ES projector w/electric Elite 120" ceiling mounted screen (drops in front of plasma)
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3000
Front Speakers - B&W CM9, Center - B&W CMC2, Surrounds - B&W CM5
SVS PB12+, SVS PB13 Ultra
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post #2 of 24 Old 07-06-2013, 07:12 PM
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You could DIY 2 great subs for the cost of one other SVS PB12.
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post #3 of 24 Old 07-06-2013, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm, that's a very intriguing idea. I had never thought about that. Going the DIY route, are people able to match or exceed the performance of a SVS or similar brand?

Also, how easy (or difficult) is it to put a high gloss finish on a DIY sub? My speakers are glossy black so I'd want the subs to match.

Thanks for the great idea!

Samsung TV - PN59D8000 - wall mounted
HW50ES projector w/electric Elite 120" ceiling mounted screen (drops in front of plasma)
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3000
Front Speakers - B&W CM9, Center - B&W CMC2, Surrounds - B&W CM5
SVS PB12+, SVS PB13 Ultra
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-06-2013, 07:28 PM
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Yes, you can exceed the performance of the SVS with a properly executed DIY build. A gloss finish is doable but is not the easiest.
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post #5 of 24 Old 07-06-2013, 08:44 PM
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I would get another PLUS unless I took on a DIY project. The finish you’re considering is very time consuming from what I have noticed, and you would need to do two to have two like subs or go with one higher performance sub. I never have taken on that finish myself though.

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post #6 of 24 Old 07-06-2013, 09:36 PM
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Get another PB12 Plus. At least then you have MATCHING subwoofers. Dont DIY if you are time restricted.
Ive got the pb12 NSD and am going for another
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post #7 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there any reason I should NOT get an Ultra?

Samsung TV - PN59D8000 - wall mounted
HW50ES projector w/electric Elite 120" ceiling mounted screen (drops in front of plasma)
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3000
Front Speakers - B&W CM9, Center - B&W CMC2, Surrounds - B&W CM5
SVS PB12+, SVS PB13 Ultra
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post #8 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 06:56 AM
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The main reason to not get the Ultra is because it's a totally different subwoofer. It has a different amplifier, and a different driver. I think the cabinet is also slightly different. Using multiple subwoofers together is easier with the same subwoofers. It's more difficult to get the calibration right when the subwoofers are different. The Ultra is stronger then the PB-12 Plus. The harder you play the system the weaker subwoofer is always working harder and sometimes bottoms out or destroys itself. While the stronger subwoofer does it's job just fine. Some people have mixed different subwoofers in a multiple subwoofer system but there's always a bit of a calibration risk when doing that.
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post #9 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

Is there any reason I should NOT get an Ultra?

Two differently tuned subs can cause cancelations. The plus and the Ultra are very close pertaining to tune so it might work out?? The SQ/performance of the Ultra is going to differ a bit also. Even though.. I would still opt for another Plus unless I planned on upgrading the Plus to the Ultra down the road. That’s a large room you’re moving to. You would be hard pressed to hurt a SVS due to their use of a limiter in the amp..

You mentioned looking at another company.. if you do decide to look around, PSA is a good place to start imo http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x Tom V with PSA used to work at SVS. He is the V in the SVS logo and has great customer support and aggressive pricing.

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post #10 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 08:38 AM
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^Agreed! I would go with another plus or a psa xv15 if you are looking around at other companies...email Tom at support@powersoundaudio.com and he will share some info that folks simply do not want to accept as the truth. smile.gif
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, so it seems as though everyone agrees that I NEED a 2nd sub due to the space in the room.

Many of you have recommended another Plus. So, will having 2 Plus's in the room be OK, great, or perfect?

Samsung TV - PN59D8000 - wall mounted
HW50ES projector w/electric Elite 120" ceiling mounted screen (drops in front of plasma)
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3000
Front Speakers - B&W CM9, Center - B&W CMC2, Surrounds - B&W CM5
SVS PB12+, SVS PB13 Ultra
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

OK, so it seems as though everyone agrees that I NEED a 2nd sub due to the space in the room.

Many of you have recommended another Plus. So, will having 2 Plus's in the room be OK, great, or perfect?

The Plus is a pretty stout sub, so dual would be pretty nice imo. Nothing is ever perfect when it comes to subs around here with most. wink.gif

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post #13 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 09:05 AM
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Three would be perfect.

wink.gif

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Three would be perfect.
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

So, will having 2 Plus's in the room be OK, great, or perfect?
It will be better. You don't reach the point of diminishing returns until you get up past four subs.

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post #16 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

OK, so it seems as though everyone agrees that I NEED a 2nd sub due to the space in the room.

Many of you have recommended another Plus. So, will having 2 Plus's in the room be OK, great, or perfect?

If you can place a second Plus nearfield, (within 4 feet of the listening positions), that second sub will be most impressive.

Even if you can't place a sub nearfiield, another Plus should keep your attention.

Also, have you contacted SVS? You might be able to get to speak to someone like Ed Mullen, who has a lot of expertise, (both on his own,and with SVS).
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post #17 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


It will be better. You don't reach the point of diminishing returns until you get up past four subs.

 

Reference here:

 

 

 

multsubs.pdf 815k .pdf file

 

 

 

The conclusion of which is:

 

One subwoofer at each wall midpoint is the best in terms of Std, Max-ave and Max-min but does not support low frequencies particularly well. Two subwoofers, at opposing wall midpoints, performs very nearly as well as four at the midpoints and gives a much better LF factor. One subwoofer in each corner also has good low frequency support, but does not perform quite as well as one subwoofer at each wall midpoint, in terms of Std, Max-ave and Max-min. If cost and aesthetics are considered, subwoofers at 2 wall midpoints is preferred.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf multsubs.pdf (814.9 KB, 4 views)
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Hmmm, that's a very intriguing idea. I had never thought about that. Going the DIY route, are people able to match or exceed the performance of a SVS or similar brand?

Also, how easy (or difficult) is it to put a high gloss finish on a DIY sub? My speakers are glossy black so I'd want the subs to match.

Thanks for the great idea!


Perhaps 2-3 of these and a nice power amp (with eq): http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7094
Everything is already cut for you, all you have to do is glue it together and put a finish on it.
You could probably cover a lot of the cost selling the Svs after you assemble them.
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post #19 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 12:24 PM
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Data for thought.. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

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post #20 of 24 Old 07-07-2013, 01:27 PM
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Add a PB12 + who already have. It would be the most logical choice between the two would succeed better integration and many headaches.

You can also add PB13, both have the same place. PB12 + has a slightly smaller enclosure and the design is the same.
Just a 12 "vs 13.5" and 800w vs 1000.
The total difference is transmitted by +3 db for the Ultra, check.
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post #21 of 24 Old 07-08-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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So I am very interested in the DIY subs. I think it would be an awesome learning experience and give me an opportunity to make something I love.

However, I'm still considering buying a sub and I never like buying the same thing as I already have. I want an upgrade - something like the Ultra.

Will I just be completely dissatisfied by mixing a PB12 Plus with an Ultra, instead of a 2nd PB12 Plus?

Samsung TV - PN59D8000 - wall mounted
HW50ES projector w/electric Elite 120" ceiling mounted screen (drops in front of plasma)
Receiver - Yamaha RX-A3000
Front Speakers - B&W CM9, Center - B&W CMC2, Surrounds - B&W CM5
SVS PB12+, SVS PB13 Ultra
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post #22 of 24 Old 07-09-2013, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
However, I'm still considering buying a sub and I never like buying the same thing as I already have. I want an upgrade - something like the Ultra.

Will I just be completely dissatisfied by mixing a PB12 Plus with an Ultra, instead of a 2nd PB12 Plus?

Ok once again smile.gif
Quote:
Two differently tuned subs can cause cancelations. The plus and the Ultra are very close pertaining to tune so it might work out?? The SQ/performance of the Ultra is going to differ a bit also. Even though.. I would still opt for another Plus unless I planned on upgrading the Plus to the Ultra down the road. That’s a large room you’re moving to. You would be hard pressed to hurt a SVS due to their use of a limiter in the amp..

I understand wanting to try something new out and it seems to be what you're set on doing. Might as well go for the Ultra then if it's another SVS that you want to go with. wink.gif

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post #23 of 24 Old 07-09-2013, 02:13 AM
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post #24 of 24 Old 07-09-2013, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

So I am very interested in the DIY subs. I think it would be an awesome learning experience and give me an opportunity to make something I love.

However, I'm still considering buying a sub and I never like buying the same thing as I already have. I want an upgrade - something like the Ultra.

Will I just be completely dissatisfied by mixing a PB12 Plus with an Ultra, instead of a 2nd PB12 Plus?

No problem you would have to mix with the plus ultra, the ultra has a 3 db higher maximum output. I am sure that the bonus can keep his composure very well against the PB13.

Now is better one seconds PB12 plus, since both would be equal in performance and contribution is minimal difference between PB12 and PB13. When you reach the limit, you will come with both PB12 +, but if you have a PB13 and PB12 +, the PB12 + limited a little earlier (although do constrain a PB12 + DSP, it is quite difficult, since it is comparable to a PB13 Bash 750w).

The way of diy is a good choice, I have a PB12 + DSP and a diy 24 ", the results are excellent (although I prefer better sound in the PB12 + DSP), the diy 24" gives much more SPL, even more a PB13.

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