Decision about a Subwoofer - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I was planning to buy a second subwoofer 6 months ago, and was almost deciding on the BIC F12. But didnt go through it for financial reasons.

I am travelling again to the US and as usual like to shop for electronics and buy things from amazon (because they accept international credit cards). But might opt for another seller if deemed better and can pay by wire transfer if the shop is reputable.

I currently have a pioneer sc-07 with 2x energy take flat towers (each having 4x4.5 inch woofers), center flat pannel (2x4.5inch active woofers and 2x4.5 inch passive woofers) and rear flat pannels as well (each having 2x4.5 inch woofers), and with them an energy ESW-V10 subwoofer, the room is large for the speakers but cannot complain, It is pretty good at the sitting area and I cannot always have larger sound because of the neighbours. the room is around (35x12x9), i got these originally for a smaller room earlier but moved them to this larger space. The setup was played around to supply the main sitting area with enough power. i know the room might benefit from larger speakers and sub.

Now I have another room (12x11x9) and I have 5 energy classic speakers for it. i am planning to get a butdget receiver for it (new entry levels from yamaha or pioneer) depending on budget, less then USD 250 would be good. and I need a subwoofer. I do know that I can get a small sub 8 inch and max 10 inch and it will be enough for the room.

I am considering two options:
1- Get a larger more powerfull sub for the larger room and move the ESW V10 to the smaller room.
2- Get a sub (whether larger or smaller) depending on the money and put it in the smaller room (if it is weaker then my current ESW V10).

I have several candidates and need your advice (taking into consideration, that the subwoofer might be placed with the ESW-V10 in case I need to have more bass sometimes, or the ESW-V10 might be moved to the smaller room, and ultimatly the new subwoofer will sit in the smaller room, because no matter what I buy for 250 USD even if a 12 inch sub, i dont think it will compete with the ESW-V10 a 300 watts rms continious power and 1200 peak).
the candidates are too many if they are around USD 250 or little more ( i need to put a 220/110 transformer for all I think unless they are 220), and I need an advice, I might jump to around USD 400 (if a good deal is there):
-
- BIC F12
- Polk PSW505 (but it seems people prefer the BIC for more clean bass)
- Velodyne VX-11
- Energy ESW-C8 (but has low power
- Acoustech H-100 Cinema Series 500-Watt Front-Firing Subwoofer

The more expensive ones are:
- Klipsch RW12D 12-inch Reference Subwoofer
- Definitive Technology ProSub 800 120v Speaker
- BIC PL-200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer

The only things that is keeping me from deciding on the Klipsch RW12D or BIC PL-200 is that their weight might force me to pay additional shipping of around USD 150 if the airlines decided that the sub went over the 23KG limit which seems that these two do but with a small margin of 1.5 to 3 KG. I am thinking of removing the driver and put it in my other bag to make the weights go under 23 KG (is this bad to do?)

Any recommendations guys? do I get a larger sub for the larger room and move my ESW V10 to the samller room, of just get some sub to the smaller room? which sub to get?
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post #2 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 04:57 AM
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It's been a while since I demo'd an ESW-V10 at my colleague's house, but as far as I can recall, it was a pretty decent sub. IMO, you'd have a hard time getting anything significantly better for ~$250.

That said, you might want to consider the Klipsch RW-12d - currently on sale at Newegg.com for $279. Pit it against the ESW, put the better sub in the larger room and the runner-up in the smaller room.
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post #3 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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As i said, I might pay a little more then 250, so I might reach the USD 400 if there is a good deal. I am very interested in the RW-12d, the only downside is the weight as I am taking it on the plane with me. Already it will be considered as a second bag, so I will pay in all cases a USD 100 for the extra bag (which is the sub in its box). But if they decided that it weights more then 23 KG which it does as per the specs (with the box). Then I will have to pay an additional USD 150. So I was considering removing the driver and put it in my other bag! Will they make me pay if the weight is around 25kg! dont know!

Is the PL200 better then then the RW-12d? I know klipsch is a more famous brand and this exact sub used to sell for much more but the PL-200 has excellent reviews as well!
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post #4 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 05:46 AM
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I would take some time and do a little research...you will quickly discover the rw12 is a better sub overall than any bic offereing. the deeper extension and sound quality alone is worth the little extra cost. Read thru the rw12 thread and you will see this has been confirmed many times.
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post #5 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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But suppose I opt for the RW12 which is an idea that I like, does anyone know the weight of the sub with the cartoon? and If it is above 23 KG, is removing the driver (i.e. the inside sub speaker) a bad move? I know the speaker weighs 49lb without the cartoon, I dont know if I keep the cartoon and remove the grill will I still be at 51 lb (23KG) for the airline purposes? smile.gif
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post #6 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:13 AM
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Google seems to show 25kg / 55lbs shipping weight.
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post #7 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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yes amazon as well shows 55lb. But the speaker itself is 49 lb. I wonder if I removed the grill if the box will be at something around 51lb. Otherwise, my question is, is removing the driver in order to put it in my other bag a bad idea? I can reinstall it after I get back home. I wonder if the airlines will make me pay for an oversized bag if the weight is 55lb, it is just 4 lbs beyond the 51 lb.
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post #8 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:26 AM
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I doubt the grille weighs 4-5lbs. You'd be better off removing the driver, packaging it very securely, and transporting it separately from the enclosure w/ grille.

This may, however, void your warranty. If that's a potential concern to you, you might want to contact Klipsch to confirm.
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post #9 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The warranty is not my major concern since I am moving it outside the US anyhow. My concern is if the removal of the driver and putting it back again might degrade the sound quality for any reason?
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post #10 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The warranty is not my major concern since I am moving it outside the US anyhow. My concern is if the removal of the driver and putting it back again might degrade the sound quality for any reason?
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post #11 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
My concern is if the removal of the driver and putting it back again might degrade the sound quality for any reason?
There's no reason that removal & re-installation of the driver should affect sound quality.

Just make sure that everything inside the enclosure is secure (use masking tape or similar to temporarily secure loose wiring and/or insulation), and pack the driver VERY securely. smile.gif
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post #12 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

There's no reason that removal & re-installation of the driver should affect sound quality.

Just make sure that everything inside the enclosure is secure (use masking tape or similar to temporarily secure loose wiring and/or insulation), and pack the driver VERY securely. smile.gif


Like eljay states, no problem at all. I have done so many times with no adverse effect to SQ or response. It’ll work just fine. cool.gif

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post #13 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Guys. So as it seems, recommendations are leaning towards the RW12. I hope the price will still be low when my travel time comes. Another thing would be, does anyone know which type of screw driver is needed for the operation, since I will be staying in a hotel, it is better I get my own screw driver with me wink.gif
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post #14 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldorak_20 View Post

Thanks Guys. So as it seems, recommendations are leaning towards the RW12. I hope the price will still be low when my travel time comes. Another thing would be, does anyone know which type of screw driver is needed for the operation, since I will be staying in a hotel, it is better I get my own screw driver with me wink.gif

It's the bottom right screw. The rite size phillips will work though.




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post #15 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks man for pointing out the shape, so it seems it is a hex socket. Any idea about the size? i mean i think these come in mm size, so for example I should get a hex screw driver 3 mm or something like that!
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post #16 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 11:02 PM
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The bottom right screw mentioned above is not the right one unless those are somewhere else in the subwoofer.

I just looked at my RW-12D and after removing the grill there are 8 screws in the shape of the 1st screw on the 2nd row. Star shape with 6 points. I don't know the exact size right now though, I will try to figure it out once I get off of work in an hour.

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post #17 of 22 Old 07-08-2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jarretc View Post

The bottom right screw mentioned above is not the right one unless those are somewhere else in the subwoofer.

I just looked at my RW-12D and after removing the grill there are 8 screws in the shape of the 1st screw on the 2nd row. Star shape with 6 points. I don't know the exact size right now though, I will try to figure it out once I get off of work in an hour.

Whoops! Sorry about that Gold. I'm going from memory since mine is packed up and I use a different sub. I do recall useing a phillips though even though it was not the rite driver. Thanks jarretc...

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post #18 of 22 Old 07-09-2013, 12:55 AM
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You'll want a T20 Torx bit for the best fit on the 8 screws.

Took those out and the only thing attaching the sub to the cabinet is the black/red wires coming from the amp.

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post #19 of 22 Old 07-09-2013, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarretc View Post

You'll want a T20 Torx bit for the best fit on the 8 screws.

Took those out and the only thing attaching the sub to the cabinet is the black/red wires coming from the amp.

Those are called leads..

I had originally planned on taking a pic of the driver but the leads were so short that I decided to back off because they were fastened/crimped so tightly. When I build a sub I always opt for a extra foot to make pulling the driver as comfortable as possible... much easier to work on/pull the driver.

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post #20 of 22 Old 07-09-2013, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for the tips, I think I will have to see what happens when I travel and when I am next to the real unit. Will have as well to secure the driver if/once removed. The real problem is that the airline companies are becoming more tight regarding baggage, they want to make the most money out of things on top of their high ticket prices.cool.gif
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post #21 of 22 Old 07-11-2013, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
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After thinking about the logistics and hastle, I recall seeing in a nearby shop in my area a JBL ES150, and they have it discounted because it is the last display piece. I recall the price is around USD 250 (or 366 which somehow does not fit the below analysis which is based on the USD 250 price).

I think this is currently selling on amazon for that amount (overpriced) because its larger brother the ES250 is selling for 200.

Pros for me:
1 - I get a sub here locally without the hastle of packaging, ariline fares of at least USD 100, and can reach 200 if I opt for a sub that weighs above 51 LB as discussed above (if I did not remove the driver)
2 - The ES150 will probably be enough for the small room that I have and the energy take classic speakers (but will not outperform the Energy ESW V10 which is very good based on my experience with it).
3 - The price fits the bill and is not expensive taken that usually in my area these things are twice or tripple the price (but this is discounted)
4 - it is 220 volts 50 hz out of the box so I dont need a transformer.

Cons:
- It is the last piece which is dusty and in display so many hands might have fiddled with it, I need to check how much it is still in shape.
- Some reviews mentioned that these units are not long lasting
- The choice will not be like the RW12, so definitly it will be in the smaller room.


Would You advise that I get it if it is for USD 250? rather then the hastle of getting the RW12 all the way, cost, etc.
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post #22 of 22 Old 07-31-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

again here for advices. It seems I am not going to get any subwoofer locally, so I am getting one from the states when I travel in a couple of months.

- My room as mentioned is 35x12x9, but all what I need is good bass for a radius of around 12 feet, because this is where the sitting area is set when watching movies.

- I currently have the ESW-V10 from energy which as per their specs is a 300 watts rms (1200 peak) and can reach 23 Hz. it seems musical enough for me, more or less.

- the preferred sub is better be less then 51 lb in shipping weight in order not to pay a lot for check in baggage.

- the sub should be better then my current energy ESW-V10 ( how much better is a question that would be excellent if someone can answer it when recommending the subs) smile.gif

- preferred price < USD 400 but might go crazy if I get something that can get low enough at low volumes.

I have as mentioned above was looking at the kilpsch RW-12, but lately I feel like getting something that I can make sure is better then my current sub, so i did think of the svs sb12 nsd, seems small enough and capable but pretty goes above my 400 USD preferred limit, but is it worth it?

Other then that I even thought of DIY with the Dayton Audio RSS460HO 18 inch sub or maybe the 15 inch if someone convinced me to go that "dark side" way as someone mentione here smile.gif , but as well am worried about the result of DIY. and the bulkiness of the woofer.

Any advice? something cost effective and worth it?

.
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