Is the Seaton SubMersive HP the Benchmark Sub? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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When it comes to highly regarded subs, I know there are several. JTR, Rythmik, etc. But it seems that all
of them are compared to the Seaton at some point. Most every review here of people that have heard it or own it say
nothing but good things about it, whether it is HT or music. I don't mean that everybody feels it is hands down the best,
just that it seems it is the one sub that gets real props from everyone.

Curious to hear what the Sub Veterans think, especially since I am researching for a serious sub/subs right now.

JTR Noesis 228 (LCR)
Polk Audio LSiM 703 (Surrounds)
Seaton SubMersive HP Plus and Minus (Subs)
Denon 3312 (Receiver)
Sherbourn PA 7-350 (Amp)
Oppo BDP-103 (BluRay Player)
Sharp 80" 3D
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post #2 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 03:24 PM
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I would say a SubM HP would be a bench mark sub, but I always wonder why there hasn't been any official reviews with posted measurements.
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post #3 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post

When it comes to highly regarded subs, I know there are several. JTR, Rythmik, etc. But it seems that all
of them are compared to the Seaton at some point. Most every review here of people that have heard it or own it say
nothing but good things about it, whether it is HT or music. I don't mean that everybody feels it is hands down the best,
just that it seems it is the one sub that gets real props from everyone.

Curious to hear what the Sub Veterans think, especially since I am researching for a serious sub/subs right now.

Unitl Mark Sends a sub for review to Josh Ricci..... no it will not be. I can't even find a + - 3 dB point for the submversive on Marks sight. Further there has been no CEA 2010 measurements or anything else to indicate performance so no. A benchmark must have a measured mark to compare to and The Seaton Submersive has none. Its the same thing for all JTR products no measurements. I'm sure they great subs but I won't call them a benchmark until there is way to hold them up to other subs via measurement.

For example the reason the SVS PB Ultra 13 sub was and is a benchmark is it was measured and tested thoroughly and could be compared to other subs with CEA 2010 measurement data.

ShaunH
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post #4 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 03:44 PM
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I do wish there would have been some sort of objective testing for the submersives. It was one of the main reasons that I decided to go a different direction. Everyone on this forum that owns one, however, has nothing but great things to say about the sub so that should account for something. I'm guessing a manufacturer has to willingly deliver a subwoofer for an official review and it's my understanding that Seaton sells enough of these bad boys on its own merits that an objective review isn't necessary.
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post #5 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by club968 View Post

I do wish there would have been some sort of objective testing for the submersives. It was one of the main reasons that I decided to go a different direction. Everyone on this forum that owns one, however, has nothing but great things to say about the sub so that should account for something. I'm guessing a manufacturer has to willingly deliver a subwoofer for an official review and it's my understanding that Seaton sells enough of these bad boys on its own merits that an objective review isn't necessary.

For me even a little more data from mark would be helpful. I mean how can you not have at least +/- 3dB point or at least some kind of graph or data to tell us how it performs. Heck even just a frequency response graph would be nice. Its not like Mark just started up. Seaton sound has been open for I think more than eight years according to his site.... There is no excuse for that.

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post #6 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

For me even a little more data from mark would be helpful. I mean how can you not have at least +/- 3dB point or at least some kind of graph or data to tell us how it performs. Heck even just a frequency response graph would be nice. Its not like Mark just started up. Seaton sound has been open for I think more than eight years according to his site.... There is no excuse for that.
I got your frequency response graph right here:


1meter ground plane.

This graph has been available on the Seaton forum for YEARS!

The Submersive HP is -3 dB at 19 Hz in Pgm1 Mode. It's -3 dB at 15 Hz in Pgm2 Mode.

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post #7 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I got your frequency response graph right here:


1meter ground plane.

This graph has been available on the Seaton forum for YEARS!

The Submersive HP is -3 dB at 19 Hz in Pgm1 Mode. It's -3 dB at 15 Hz in Pgm2 Mode.

Craig

Thank you Craig. I must have missed it. Still this should have been up in the specs section where people can actually find it. I mean seriously why isn't this stated in the specs section of pricing and availability thread on marks forum?

I would still really like to See Josh Ricci actually review one of these.

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post #8 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post


Thank you Craig. I must have missed it. Still this should have been up in the specs section where people can actually find it. I mean seriously why isn't this stated in the specs section of pricing and availability thread on marks forum?

I would still really like to See Josh Ricci actually review one of these.

Crowdsource it.

 

Recently, some AVSr's started a thread to help fund the shipping both ways of a member's VTF-15H to Josh. It was a matter of days to source the money. Josh now has the sub in his hands and it is in queue for testing.

 

I'm sure Josh wouldn't mind testing one of the SubMs, but you'd have to confirm with him. smile.gif

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post #9 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Crowdsource it.

Recently, some AVSr's started a thread to help fund the shipping both ways of a member's VTF-15H to Josh. It was a matter of days to source the money. Josh now has the sub in his hands and it is in queue for testing.

I'm sure Josh wouldn't mind testing one of the SubMs, but you'd have to confirm with him. smile.gif

The question then who will give up their submersive HP for some time?

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post #10 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:29 PM
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I don't know who'd be willing to give up their SubM HP, but I know I'd be willing to throw in so cash to ship it to Josh to test.
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post #11 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post


The question then who will give up their submersive HP for some time?

Ah yes...that's the hard part! biggrin.gif

 

I would think you might have better luck trying to find a new buyer and having that buyer ship it from Seaton directly to Josh. Then Josh could ship it back to the buyer when done. The buyer could take claim for helping out 1000s of potential buyers as well as take credit for the lift in revenue for Seaton wink.gif

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post #12 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Crowdsource it.

Recently, some AVSr's started a thread to help fund the shipping both ways of a member's VTF-15H to Josh. It was a matter of days to source the money. Josh now has the sub in his hands and it is in queue for testing.

I'm sure Josh wouldn't mind testing one of the SubMs, but you'd have to confirm with him. smile.gif

That would be myself...smile.gif

I plan on starting a poll thread (after josh ricci is done with the vtf15) on which sub to target next, long as josh is willing.
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post #13 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:56 PM
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I'd be willing to donate to ship someone's HP to Ricci if he's willing to test it. So who's the lucky guy ready to ship his submersive for testing wink.gif
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post #14 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 04:57 PM
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Thank you Craig. I must have missed it. Still this should have been up in the specs section where people can actually find it. I mean seriously why isn't this stated in the specs section of pricing and availability thread on marks forum?
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/undefined/post?id=1945927#1

That was posted in 2007. It's kinda buried now but it's still linked in a "sticky" on the front page of the Seaton Forum: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Product-Listing-Availability-Status-and-Pricing-3364736

Nonetheless, I totally agree that Mark needs to get his website up and running. I have called him out on this numerous times over the years. His total business is internet direct. His website ought to be his face to the world. It basically doesn't exist at this point.

Craig
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post #15 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post

The question then who will give up their submersive HP for some time?
I would be willing to send one of mine for testing. I would even pay the shipping myself... BUT only with Mark's consent. He has stated in the past that he doesn't want to grow too fast. He has sited other ID companies who've let growth be the detriment of their business. He has a valid concern that the testing could lead to a significant spike in orders that he is not prepared to fill. One of the worst things that can happen to an ID business is to be unable to fulfill orders.

I would love to see the SubM HP get tested. However, I won't put Mark in a position he would prefer not to be in.

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post #16 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/undefined/post?id=1945927#1

That was posted in 2007. It's kinda buried now but it's still linked in a "sticky" on the front page of the Seaton Forum: http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post/Product-Listing-Availability-Status-and-Pricing-3364736

Nonetheless, I totally agree that Mark needs to get his website up and running. I have called him out on this numerous times over the years. His total business is internet direct. His website ought to be his face to the world. It basically doesn't exist at this point.

Craig

I agree, its been my biggest issue along with no reviews. I mean I get it. Mark is pretty much the internet equivalent of a custom installer so he sees these issues as not important and he has sold many products through his business model. And having showcased his work in select home theaters (Arts theater comes to mind). But on the other hand issues like this what would keep me from recommending his products. That an you can't buy products without emailing Mark and processing the order manually.

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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I would be willing to send one of mine for testing. I would even pay the shipping myself... BUT only with Mark's permission. He has stated in the past that he doesn't want to grow too fast. He has sited other ID companies who've let growth be the detriment of their business. He has a valid concern that the testing could lead to a significant spike in orders that he is not prepared to fill. One of the worst things that can happen to an ID business is to be unable to fulfill orders.

I would love to see the SubM HP get tested. However, I won't put Mark in a position he would prefer not to be in.

Craig

all he has to do is put sold out on the website until he can take more orders...the key is not to take money until the order can be processed and shipped. also the price of his products will keep him in a bracket where the exponential growth should not be of concern.
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

all he has to do is put sold out on the website until he can take more orders...the key is not to take money until the order can be processed and shipped. also the price of his products will keep him in a bracket where the exponential growth should not be of concern.

True but we don't want another Epik on our hands.....
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post #19 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I would be willing to send one of mine for testing. I would even pay the shipping myself... BUT only with Mark's permission. He has stated in the past that he doesn't want to grow too fast. He has sited other ID companies who've let growth be the detriment of their business. He has a valid concern that the testing could lead to a significant spike in orders that he is not prepared to fill. One of the worst things that can happen to an ID business is to be unable to fulfill orders.

I would love to see the SubM HP get tested. However, I won't put Mark in a position he would prefer not to be in.

Craig

Shoot Mark a pm and ask him, I'll be more then willing to donate some money Craig.
I am certainly not saying there's a reason to hide from the testing but at the same time I still wonder why ones never been tested. Whether he doesn't want to go to fast or not shouldn't really be an excuse not to have one tested if someone's willing to donate one to Josh for testing and Josh is willing to test it.

Lets be honest here, even if it tests off the charts and blows everything out of the water the average consumer isn't going to run out and drop $2500+ down on a couple SubM HP's. I'm sure it would help his sales but Seaton isn't going to take or the sub market.
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post #20 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 05:25 PM
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True but we don't want another Epik on our hands.....

Sorry but I have a hard time believing Mark would ever let that happen.
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post #21 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 05:30 PM
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all he has to do is put sold out on the website until he can take more orders...the key is not to take money until the order can be processed and shipped. also the price of his products will keep him in a bracket where the exponential growth should not be of concern.
Yeah, ask Epik how well that works!?!
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Shoot Mark a pm and ask him, I'll be more then willing to donate some money Craig.
I am certainly not saying there's a reason to hide from the testing but at the same time I still wonder why ones never been tested. Whether he doesn't want to go to fast or not shouldn't really be an excuse not to have one tested if someone's willing to donate one to Josh for testing and Josh is willing to test it.

Lets be honest here, even if it tests off the charts and blows everything out of the water the average consumer isn't going to run out and drop $2500+ down on a couple SubM HP's. I'm sure it would help his sales but Seaton isn't going to take or the sub market.

To be fair Tom and JIm had to pull review samples of the XS30 because they where already selling to many. So I can understand why mark would be hesitant to get an inrush of orders.

To be clear I'm not hating on Mark or his product.

The fact he brought the Speaker Power amplifiers to the forefront and brought them into the public eye. Which has allowed several brands to push what a powered sub with an on board amp can do. I remember when the JL audo fathom's and Gotham came out nobody thought power like that could be done expect by really expensive super custom amps. As the only amps with power like that where pieces by manufactures who weren't going to share there tech.. The fact mark made speaker power amps as common place as BASH amps can't be ignored. Now if you need more than 1kw or 1.25KW of amp power with on board amp you go with Speaker power. Much like if you need about 1kw or below you go with a BASH based amp.

My issue is I don't like seeing people recommend a sub, with well no performance data on it. More so at a price than most normal folks are willing to spend on an entire speaker system. Heck I would settle for CEA 2010 averages.

ShaunH
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post #23 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 05:36 PM
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Shoot Mark a pm and ask him, I'll be more then willing to donate some money Craig.
I am certainly not saying there's a reason to hide from the testing but at the same time I still wonder why ones never been tested. Whether he doesn't want to go to fast or not shouldn't really be an excuse not to have one tested if someone's willing to donate one to Josh for testing and Josh is willing to test it.

Lets be honest here, even if it tests off the charts and blows everything out of the water the average consumer isn't going to run out and drop $2500+ down on a couple SubM HP's. I'm sure it would help his sales but Seaton isn't going to take or the sub market.
What you and I think doesn't really matter. If Mark has those concerns, I will NOT be the one who circumvents his wishes. There are too many stories of ID companies who couldn't keep up with their own growth, and who died trying. I don't want to be the guy responsible for putting Mark in that situation. If he gives the go-ahead, I'm OK with it. If not, count me out.

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What you and I think doesn't really matter. If Mark has those concerns, I will NOT be the one who circumvents his wishes. There are too many stories of ID companies who couldn't keep up with their own growth, and who died trying. I don't want to be the guy responsible for putting Mark in that situation. If he gives the go-ahead, I'm OK with it. If not, count me out.

Craig

And I totally get that Craig, but if Mark is okay with it count me in as putting some money towards it.
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And I totally get that Craig, but if Mark is okay with it count me in as putting some money towards it.
I've sent Mark an e-mail. We'll see what he says.

And I'll abides by his wishes, whatever they are.

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post #26 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 06:09 PM
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Nonetheless, I totally agree that Mark needs to get his website up and running. I have called him out on this numerous times over the years. His total business is internet direct. His website ought to be his face to the world. It basically doesn't exist at this point.
If nothing else, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to take down the counter.

Of course for those who want a high end sealed sub with measurements, there's now the Funk 18.0 to ogle. Driver displacement and amplifier power are similar to the SubM and as with Seaton you're getting a product from a small North American custom shop.
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post #27 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 06:27 PM
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If nothing else, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to take down the counter.

Of course for those who want a high end sealed sub with measurements, there's now the Funk 18.0 to ogle. Driver displacement and amplifier power are similar to the SubM and as with Seaton you're getting a product from a small North American custom shop.

From strictly an SPL performance standpoint, I hope that the SubM does better than the 18.0...

 

Do you think these would be similar in performance?

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post #28 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 06:33 PM
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From strictly an SPL performance standpoint, I hope that the SubM does better than the 18.0...

Do you think these would be similar in performance?

The funk audio 18.0 is actually pretty capable. Don't confuse it with the 18.0C.

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Do you think these would be similar in performance?
I'd expect they're playing in the same ballpark if nothing else.
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The funk audio 18.0 is actually pretty capable. Don't confuse it with the 18.0C.
Indeed. The 18.0 compares extremely well against the high dollar Velo DD18+ and even the Paradigm Sub 2. It's no lightweight, though folks expecting 120dB at 20Hz in Josh's CEA burst testing will be disappointed.
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post #30 of 456 Old 07-08-2013, 06:50 PM
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The funk audio 18.0 is actually pretty capable. Don't confuse it with the 18.0C.

I would hope so for $3300.

If someone was looking for good performance in a compact 18" subs with a nice finish this is a great option. If I was spending north of 3 grand I'd be looking in a different direction though, but I also have a dedicated room so I'm not looking for a sub that looks like a piece of furniture.
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