LV12R vs PB12-NSD vs VTF-3 MK4 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I've spent many hours the past several days looking at different subs, many times feeling like I've found the one only to find something else that made me change me mind. Perfect example, Def Tech Supercubes, which looked great and have good reviews and I was about to pull the trigger on until I realized they don't do well below 30Hz, something that is hidden by the fact they don't publish full specs. While there's not much on the LV12R since it's so new, I have to say your review and positive comments on its predecessor and Rythmik in general really have me leaning toward it. I do have some concerns though and want to be sure I make the best purchase I can for the money.

My situation is as follows: My living room is open to the kitchen and dining room, as well as a double-wide stairway (split-level house, stairs go halfway down, turn 180 degrees, and go the rest of the way down) and a hallway. To make matters worse, the ceiling is vaulted. Not counting the hallway or the space down the stairs, which are separated from the living room by a half-height wall between them and the couch, the living/dining room and kitchen are ~8,000+ cubic feet. What I'm looking for is a sub that will provide deep bass primarily for movies/TV (and I watch a lot of sci-fi, fantasy, action, etc). I want it to sound and feel great. Music isn't very important to me, I'm not that picky, though of course I do want it to sound good. And I prefer quality to quantity. Currently I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR607 to run Polk Audio RM6750 speakers with the included subwoofer. Because of this, pretty much any of the subs I'm looking at will be a huge step up, so ultimately I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them. Still, I'd obviously rather get the best for a given amount of money.

Here are the subs I'm considering:

Rythmik LV12R: $589
SVS PB12-NSD: $769
Hsu VTF-3 MK4: $750 (sale, reg $800)

I don't have a set budget. I'd like to not spend a fortune, and ideally keep it to the price range of the above, but am not totally against going outside of it. A big factor for me is the size: I don't want a massive box taking up a lot of space, and the larger it is, the less likely I will be able to position it perfectly, so while it would probably be ideal for me I'm not interested in a 15" or dual box or anything like that. I may after some time add a second one, though. Speaking of which, how important is it for them to both be the same (brand, model)? I'm thinking of maybe one of the compact SVS subs for the second one as that may be all I'd have room for.

Obviously the Rythmik is by far the cheapest option of the three, so I'm wondering how the performance compares. If it's similar, the Rythmik is a no-brainer, so my question is are they close or do one or both of the others outperform it by more than a small margin making it worth the extra cost? And do you think I would be happy with them considering my situation? Finally, how important is it to have ~1' of space between the back of the Rythmik and the wall, and could it be turned 90 degrees instead?
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post #2 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 02:52 PM
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The LV12R is a fine sub, but it is designed for budget under $600 so doesn't have quite the same build quality as the other two. My vote would be for the SVS, but you should also take a look at PSA's subs as they have a ported model in the same price range as the PB12-NSD.
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post #3 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 02:52 PM
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If your looking for a mid size sub and don't want to spend a lot then the lv12r stands out.

In this order I'd go
1 lv12r
2 hsu vtf3
3 svs pb12nsd

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post #4 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 02:57 PM
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I did a comparison between the previous versions of the VTF3 and FV12 (the mk3 a non-r models respectively). The VTF3 can dig deeper and get louder but the Rythmik could give some bass sounds a bit more definition. I think you would be happy with either one. I wouldn't bother with the PB12 unless you wanted its superior warranty. You can buy an extended warranty on the VTF3's amp for an extra charge, I think it was $80 but I am not positive.
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post #5 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:01 PM
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I would add the Outlaw LFM-1 EX to your list as well. It's basically a less refined VTF 3.4 that is downfiring and has ports on the bottom, so you can place it flush to the wall.
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post #6 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:05 PM
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Missed the point of trying to get something on the smaller side. The PB12-NSD definitely isn't small and pretty imposing in any room. I'll throw out another option worth considering which is the SVS SB12-NSD. 14" all around, 400W amp, cast driver, and 5-year warranty. $649 shipped last time I looked.
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post #7 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:11 PM
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He might have a problem getting the bass he wants from one sealed sub with the size he stated of the 3 connected rooms.
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post #8 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:17 PM
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Well with a room that opend and vaulted ceilings he's not gona get great bass from any smaller sub. I'd recommend ported And a 12inch. And ya the outlaw would be worth a look to but I still think the lv12r would fit nicely to.

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post #9 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:18 PM
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1800 doesn't seem terribly large to fill; you get quite a bit of room gain from sealed subs, but you could be right. SVS pays shipping both ways so nothing to lose by trying it out. That said, the Outlaw has excellent output, but not sure how it compares to PSA as it's in the same price range once you take shipping into account.
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post #10 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, I meant 8,000 cubic feet, not sure why I said 1,800. As for the SVS SB12-NSD, I ruled it out due to it's relatively high cutoff on the low end.
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post #11 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

1800 doesn't seem terribly large to fill; you get quite a bit of room gain from sealed subs, but you could be right. SVS pays shipping both ways so nothing to lose by trying it out. That said, the Outlaw has excellent output, but not sure how it compares to PSA as it's in the same price range once you take shipping into account.

reread the op...he has total of 8000^3 to fill
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post #12 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:30 PM
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I was wondering how a living room/dining room/kitchen with vaulted ceilings can be less than 2,000ft^3.

With 8,000ft^3, you'll need at least two 12" ported subs to get the bass impact you want.
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post #13 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The only PSA sub close to that price range is the XS15(b) at $710-750, which only goes to 26Hz (though it says 16-20Hz typical in-room extension, which I'm not sure what that means).

Warranty isn't much of a concern, I will get an additional year with my credit card, and I feel that if it lasts 3 years (or more), it will more than likely keep going for a while longer. And if after 3 years I have to replace the amp, I can live with that.

I'll take a look at the Outlaw. Haven't seen much on them, just a mention here and there, and got the impression they're more about SPL than clarity.
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post #14 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

reread the op...he has total of 8000^3 to fill

I just changed it after realizing my mistake. Should have mentioned that.
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post #15 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

1800 doesn't seem terribly large to fill; you get quite a bit of room gain from sealed subs, but you could be right. SVS pays shipping both ways so nothing to lose by trying it out. That said, the Outlaw has excellent output, but not sure how it compares to PSA as it's in the same price range once you take shipping into account.







The XV has much better extension

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post #16 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

I was wondering how a living room/dining room/kitchen with vaulted ceilings can be less than 2,000ft^3.

With 8,000ft^3, you'll need at least two 12" ported subs to get the bass impact you want.

Agreed; none of these subs will do it alone.
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post #17 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:42 PM
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Agreed; none of these subs will do it alone.

Definitely, it’s going to take dual or better.

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post #18 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:46 PM
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I just changed it after realizing my mistake. Should have mentioned that.

No worries. This thread makes a lot more sense to me now.
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post #19 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:50 PM
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Better start looking at something serious and possibly placing one nearfield. That being said dual PSA XV30F's or Rythmik FV15HP's would be my recomendation.
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post #20 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:52 PM
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No worries. This thread makes a lot more sense to me now.

Yea I didnt realize he had 1800 in the op initially...so yea I bet it makes much more sense now lol.
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post #21 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:55 PM
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Better start looking at something serious and possibly placing one nearfield. That being said dual PSA XV30F's or Rythmik FV15HP's would be my recomendation.

Wellp!.. there goes the budget. smile.gif it's always the first to go!

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post #22 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:57 PM
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Wellp!.. there goes the budget. smile.gif it's always the first to go!

wellp!...budget and 8000^3 kind of contradicts itself no?
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post #23 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 03:59 PM
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wellp!...budget and 8000^3 kind of contradicts itself no?

Yeah it does, that’s one major space to contend with.

EDIT> That was not a jab at you bass, it was intended towards the budget. smile.gif

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post #24 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so assuming I opt for two subs, since it's apparent that will be necessary and I was considering doing it eventually anyways, THEN which ones would be recommended. Please bear in mind that as much as size is an issue for the primary sub, it's even more of an issue for the secondary (assuming it will be placed at the back of the room, beside the couch, and there isn't much space there). And that makes my earlier question more important: How crucial is it that the two are of the same brand and model? So maybe an LV-12R or XV-15 with a SB12-NSD, for example, or would that be bad to mix and match like that? As mentioned, while I realize going 15" would be better, I just don't think I want a box that big, and I especially don't have room or the desire to spend the kind of money for two of them or one 15" and one 12". And it seems to me that two 12" subs would be better than one 15" one. Remember, I'm not looking to shake my (or the neighbor's) windows or anything, just add that extra depth to pull me into the movie, though I realize that's probably a fine line.

Something else that may affect my decision is if and how much of a military discount is offered by the manufacturer. That could affect the pricing as well. Not sure if you guys know much about which companies offer what as far as that.
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post #25 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:11 PM
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Yeah it does, that’s one major space to contend with.

EDIT> That was not a jab at you bass, it was intended towards the budget. smile.gif

oh i know...no worries! smile.gif
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post #26 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:19 PM
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I bet this would do it and probably at a budget the OP could swallow. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15Dual.html
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post #27 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:19 PM
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Well from doing a super quick scan the XV is smaller than the HSU 3-MK4.
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post #28 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:25 PM
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I would call the mfg of what ever brand you decide on and see what they would recommend in their product line to meet your expectations.
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post #29 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:40 PM
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If you're going for the best size to performance ratio, I think dual XV15's will be your best option. It's a 15" in an enclosure that is the same size as the PB12-NSD, VTF3.4 and LFM-1 EX, which are all 12's.
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post #30 of 68 Old 07-14-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vertigo_2_20 View Post

Ok, so assuming I opt for two subs, since it's apparent that will be necessary and I was considering doing it eventually anyways, THEN which ones would be recommended. Please bear in mind that as much as size is an issue for the primary sub, it's even more of an issue for the secondary (assuming it will be placed at the back of the room, beside the couch, and there isn't much space there). And that makes my earlier question more important: How crucial is it that the two are of the same brand and model? So maybe an LV-12R or XV-15 with a SB12-NSD, for example, or would that be bad to mix and match like that? As mentioned, while I realize going 15" would be better, I just don't think I want a box that big, and I especially don't have room or the desire to spend the kind of money for two of them or one 15" and one 12". And it seems to me that two 12" subs would be better than one 15" one. Remember, I'm not looking to shake my (or the neighbor's) windows or anything, just add that extra depth to pull me into the movie, though I realize that's probably a fine line.

Something else that may affect my decision is if and how much of a military discount is offered by the manufacturer. That could affect the pricing as well. Not sure if you guys know much about which companies offer what as far as that.

You do not want t mix these subs, their performance is just too different for them to blend well.
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