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post #31 of 52 Old 07-15-2013, 06:54 PM
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That's a +18db gain when like that lol

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post #32 of 52 Old 07-15-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

That's a +18db gain when like that lol

I don't think so. Two identical subs co-located adds 6 dB, three subs adds 9 dB, four subs adds 10.5 dB, and so on. He would need a lot of subwoofer for a full 18 dB increase.
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post #33 of 52 Old 07-15-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

That's a +18db gain when like that lol

I like your math better than shady's but I’m afraid he is generally correct.. I probably thought the same thing at some point back in time.

Here is something I copied for you that explains thing fairly well.>
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It is often times stated that the maximum gain that can be seen from adding an identical subwoofer producing the same output level is 6dB and that the full 6dB will only be realized if they are within 1/4 wavelength of each other or in other words, co-located or placed very close to each other. This is not correct in practice, in a confined environment, or basically anywhere other than very large anechoic chambers, outdoors, and huge spaces. There are a variety of factors that can cause a different interaction at the listening position such as the room acoustics, the distance from the individual subwoofers to the listening position, and the placement of each subwoofer in room.

You cannot simply assume a static gain of any amount over a substantial frequency range when the system is emitting from multiple points within a room or other confined space.

In the example given, the green trace is one subwoofer, red is two, blue is three and the black trace is with all four of them operating. It is easy to see that adding in the second subwoofer caused a gain larger than 6dB at the listening position in quite a few places – 12, 30, 40, 50 and 90Hz for example. Over some ranges output was actually lost (58-65Hz and 97-116Hz) most likely due to the phase relationship at those frequencies.

Looking at the gain seen from adding in the third subwoofer, note that again at 30Hz more than 6dB is gained and the system’s total radiation is not even doubling at this point by adding a third sub. At 80Hz we again see a slight loss.

By the time the fourth subwoofer is added in, the gain is between 2-4dB for the most part. However, note that the overall response has been flattened out and smoothed significantly, fitting within a 12dB window from 5-120Hz, where it was about an 18.5dB window before with much more overall variation.

Obviously, you cannot simply assume a static gain of any amount over a substantial frequency range when the system is emitting from multiple points within a room or other confined space. Put simply, gain is not assured at all at any specific frequency. Nor is the maximum gain by doubling the system capped at 6dB at any one frequency due to the complex interaction of all of the forces in play once you confine the system inside an enclosed vessel.

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post #34 of 52 Old 07-15-2013, 10:28 PM
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It was a joke.

A cylindrical sub on top of 2 boxed subs.

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post #35 of 52 Old 07-16-2013, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

It was a joke.

A cylindrical sub on top of 2 boxed subs.

Yip! that was only me goofing around. smile.gif

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post #36 of 52 Old 07-16-2013, 02:18 PM
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Sorry this is off topic. But where did you get the tv stand/equipment rack?

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post #37 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kajo View Post

Sorry this is off topic. But where did you get the tv stand/equipment rack?

It's from Omnimount. I forget the specific name but you'll see it on the website.

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post #38 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies so far everyone.

I've decided to go for one, big sub. I don't know how to measure it's response, but I plan on doing that down the road. If I can get a reasonably flat response on the sofa, I'm set. If not, I'll consider duals down the road.

So I'm down to two choices:

1. HSU-VTF15. This looks like a great value in the 1K range.

2. SVS PC13-Plus. Right about the same price.

The performance of the two appear similar, at least on paper. Will the 12" SVS give equal performance to the HSU?

Also, on a pure aesthetic point of view, which sub do you think would look better. I've always thought cylinders looked pretty fugly, but I'm coming around to it considering the other furniture, etc. But then again, a low box wouldn't be too bad. Either way, I'd probably pull them out to somewhere under the fish picture on the left side wall. I've included a few more pics of the corner without my old sub. PIcs are a bit fuzzy and backlight from my iPhone. The room is actually well lit by sunlight.

Thanks,
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post #39 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies so far everyone.

I've decided to go for one, big sub. I don't know how to measure it's response, but I plan on doing that down the road. If I can get a reasonably flat response on the sofa, I'm set. If not, I'll consider duals down the road.

So I'm down to two choices:

1. HSU-VTF15. This looks like a great value in the 1K range.

2. SVS PC13-Plus. Right about the same price.

The performance of the two appear similar, at least on paper. Will the 12" SVS give equal performance to the HSU?

Also, on a pure aesthetic point of view, which sub do you think would look better. I've always thought cylinders looked pretty fugly, but I'm coming around to it considering the other furniture, etc. But then again, a low box wouldn't be too bad. Either way, I'd probably pull them out to somewhere under the fish picture on the left side wall. I've included a few more pics of the corner without my old sub. PIcs are a bit fuzzy and backlight from my iPhone. The room is actually well lit by sunlight.

Thanks,
Dan


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post #40 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
2. SVS PC13-Plus. Right about the same price.

I think you mean the PC-12Plus correct? The 13 is the Ultra with a 13.5” driver and costs more.

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post #41 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Whoops, yes the PC-12 plus. Not the 13.

I'm leaning plus instead of just PC-12.

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post #42 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 09:30 AM
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It’s going to be so close that I would suggest you choose the Co. that you’re most comfortable with or maybe whatever fits your decor best. The nod might go to the Plus down low?? maybe that was in a lower tune mode?? I can’t remember. Imo SVS has a better customer service reputation and has the 45 day free ship both way program going that’s pretty attractive. That’s not saying Peter over at HSU isn't great to work with though. Anyway like said, both are great subs.

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post #43 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 11:40 AM
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Just in case your interested.. there is a PC13-Ultra in the outlet section for 1599 http://www.svsound.com/outlet-specials?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=179&category_id=5

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post #44 of 52 Old 07-17-2013, 01:07 PM
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I'm all for using the best subs you can (same with all gear in general) but I bet the biggest sonic upgrade you could make to that system would be to get some bass trapping in that room.
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post #45 of 52 Old 07-18-2013, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm going to get an SVS cylinder for sure. Possibly duals. I emailed Darren at SVS to ask for his thoughts. Here's another quick Photoshop mockup. I really like the cylinder look a lot now.

Dan


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post #46 of 52 Old 07-18-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

So I'm going to get an SVS cylinder for sure. Possibly duals. I emailed Darren at SVS to ask for his thoughts. Here's another quick Photoshop mockup. I really like the cylinder look a lot now.

Dan


Not only does it look cool, but guests to your house will wonder what the heck it is biggrin.gif

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post #47 of 52 Old 07-18-2013, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Not only does it look cool, but guests to your house will wonder what the heck it is biggrin.gif

I'm going to measure and see if duals will fit nicely. Then guests will have no idea what's going on.

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post #48 of 52 Old 07-19-2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Not only does it look cool, but guests to your house will wonder what the heck it is biggrin.gif

http://youtu.be/CAVSMg380qA?t=28s biggrin.gif

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post #49 of 52 Old 07-20-2013, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

So I'm going to get an SVS cylinder for sure. Possibly duals. I emailed Darren at SVS to ask for his thoughts. Here's another quick Photoshop mockup. I really like the cylinder look a lot now.

Dan


The circumference of your mock is still to large. smile.gif

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post #50 of 52 Old 07-20-2013, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

The circumference of your mock is still to large. smile.gif

That's okay. I just put it in so that I could see how it looks vs a large box.

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post #51 of 52 Old 07-20-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

That's okay. I just put it in so that I could see how it looks vs a large box.

Yeah I know, the PC would come in at in-between your SVS lamp and mock for a real mock though. just sayin. lol biggrin.gif

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post #52 of 52 Old 12-31-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dftkell View Post

I'm going to measure and see if duals will fit nicely. Then guests will have no idea what's going on.

So I finally got Fuzzmeasure and did an exhaustive set of measurements using a pair of 10's subs. I tested with single sub placement and dual sub placement. In the end, I'm going to go duals and build a pair of Dayton RS-HO 18" flat packs. Should be plenty for my room. smile.gif

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