Help me decide: SVS PC-13 Ultra or SVS PB-13 Ultra - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this has been brought up several times in a few threads but I specifically want to know if the space I am working with will lend better to one or the other design ( in regards to sound properties vs. sub footprint).

A few things I am hoping to do:

1. Minimize reflection ( inherent due to concrete floor/ceiling + floor to ceiling windows). I can't apply room treatment and I know it's literally the worst acoustically speaking, but I would like opinion on whether the down-firing cylinder perhaps is better than the front firing for this type of space

2. Optimize for the space but have room for the future- basically which one is the most flexible for future spaces?

3. Which one will play best with my CM9s and Pioneer Elite SC-67

4. Are there truly any strange wind noises (waffling?) from the ports more likely with the cylinder vs. box?

Aesthetically speaking I like them both, so really this is more about maximizing value in regards to performance.

In the pictures below you can all see where they would likely go- probably behind the couch or in that corner near the column...or perhaps by the window on the center between couch and speakers ( I'm really not sure what would be acoustically best) . Thanks in advance!!




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post #2 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 06:26 PM
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Without going into a diatribe.
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Originally Posted by Manzola View Post


1. Minimize reflection ( inherent due to concrete floor/ceiling + floor to ceiling windows). I can't apply room treatment and I know it's literally the worst acoustically speaking, but I would like opinion on whether the down-firing cylinder perhaps is better than the front firing for this type of space

Either will work fine
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2. Optimize for the space but have room for the future- basically which one is the most flexible for future spaces?

Don't know what your future space will be. Either is a small footprint and work fine almost anywhere. Some like cylinders and some like boxes. Personal preference.
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3. Which one will play best with my CM9s and Pioneer Elite SC-67

Either
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4. Are there truly any strange wind noises (waffling?) from the ports more likely with the cylinder vs. box?

No
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Thanks in advance!!

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post #3 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 06:47 PM
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The PC would be much more placement friendly IMO. The PB 13 Ultra is a pretty big box. Another benefit to the cylinder is that you can lay it on its side too. Maybe lay right behind the sofa?

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post #4 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

The PC would be much more placement friendly IMO. The PB 13 Ultra is a pretty big box. Another benefit to the cylinder is that you can lay it on its side too. Maybe lay right behind the sofa?

I kind of like the water heater look. biggrin.gif

I miss my pair of 16-46's I had back in the day. Those bad boys dug deep.

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post #5 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 06:59 PM
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I agree addict! They did dig deep and was my first wow ever with true bass.
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post #6 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 07:21 PM
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ya I really like the pc13 and its priced better than the pb. I believe svs has a b-stock for 1599.00
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post #7 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been mainly afraid that the cylinder would suffer on the concrete ( this may be baseless )- And potentially that the fabric finish might be more fragile and prone to wear?

Otherwise I have been leaning towards the PC13 since it's just so odd looking....but the conservative in me says go for something tried and true?
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post #8 of 40 Old 07-18-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manzola View Post

I have been mainly afraid that the cylinder would suffer on the concrete ( this may be baseless )- And potentially that the fabric finish might be more fragile and prone to wear?

Otherwise I have been leaning towards the PC13 since it's just so odd looking....but the conservative in me says go for something tried and true?

Trust me when I say the cylinder design has been around as long, if not longer, than the cube. As MK mentioned, the 16-46's (cylinder subs) were also my first introduction to true clean bass. That was over 10 years ago.

The fabric finish is actually more resilient than the other finishes can be. I've had fabric, black wrinkle, and real wood; and the fabric actually held up the best. It's not like you should be putting any of them through the torture test, but accidents do happen.

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post #9 of 40 Old 07-19-2013, 01:31 AM
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The PB13-Ultra will be quite an eyesore in your space as it is really big. I would place the PC13-Ultra at the back corner (right LP) to take advantage of room gain since there isn't any space in front.

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post #10 of 40 Old 07-19-2013, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Well after some serious personal deliberation, at least 5+ hours of research and two calls with SVS I decided to place the order for the PC13-Ultra. I'm super excited and agree this will likely be more practical. I just hope it works as advertised and can be felt 5-10 floors down.

Thanks to everyone for helping me make up my mind!
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post #11 of 40 Old 07-19-2013, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manzola View Post

I have been mainly afraid that the cylinder would suffer on the concrete ( this may be baseless )- And potentially that the fabric finish might be more fragile and prone to wear?

Otherwise I have been leaning towards the PC13 since it's just so odd looking....but the conservative in me says go for something tried and true?

No need to worry about the fabric at all. It’s very durable, more so than the other options imo. It’s also a very easy unit to move around compared to the box style.
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I just hope it works as advertised and can be felt 5-10 floors down.

LOL.. You have a great sub on the way, enjoy and Congrats!

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post #12 of 40 Old 07-19-2013, 08:35 AM
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Just don't get a cat. I wonder if SVS can provide a replacement sock if yours ended up mutilated by a cat?

I am using an SVS 20-39 PCi and the sock has not been a problem.
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post #13 of 40 Old 07-19-2013, 09:58 AM
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I tested both models.
The PB13-Ultra has a larger cabinet, which gives you an advantage in the 20Hz 15Hz range of about 1.5 dB more.

In the rest, in terms of output are identical and more than audible, measurable serious.

The PC13 has the driver closer to the ground and this may enhance the modal response in the room, causing the subwoofer in certain frequencies sound more violent.

In absolute terms the two are similar in the PB13 music has a cleaner trace (subjectively speaking). The picture is much nicer and in turn imposing.

In your case, if I tubiera space, would go no doubt by the PB13.
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post #14 of 40 Old 07-20-2013, 12:39 PM
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I have a pb-13 ultra behind my couch and it works amazing. (also have two pb12+ behind the screen) svs behind couch.jpg 172k .jpg file
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File Type: jpg svs behind couch.jpg (172.0 KB, 89 views)

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post #15 of 40 Old 07-20-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

I have a pb-13 ultra behind my couch and it works amazing. (also have two pb12+ behind the screen) svs behind couch.jpg 172k .jpg file


That's what I was likely going to do but opted to buy the pc-13 after I took some measuring tape and realized I would have to jump over it every time I wanted to shut my blinds.

I know this is totally off-topic but I'm curious....you mention you have the smaller subs behind the screen and one pb13 ultra in the back, does this not cause some kind of strange bass delay phenomenon since the pb12 are presumably faster than the larger pb13?

I always thought you had to match size/brand subs when doing a multi-sub setup.
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post #16 of 40 Old 07-20-2013, 02:26 PM
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All three are tuned to 20hz and i did adjust the phase a bit on the back sub. I use a sms-1 eq so can see on screen what the room response is (to lower small peaks and to adjust phase for dips). The two subs are really close in terms of brand,amp type and of course the sub design is the same. The 13 has way more output but both models are pretty much the same sub. So imo they work great together. I could probably sell the two pb12+s and be very happy with just the 13 (wish i would have bought the 13 first lol). Congrats on your new sub im sure you will love it biggrin.gif

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post #17 of 40 Old 07-31-2013, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: Got the PC-13 Ultra two weeks ago and it bojangled my mind with power only known to the gods of Mt. Olympus.

However, it arrived damaged from shipping. The baseplate was cracked and the amp would shut off after a few seconds. This continued for a couple hours then I gave up. A couple days I tried it out again and it worked, so I got to play around with it for a day before the replacement arrived. Let me just say the SVS guys have been just amazing with the whole ordeal, and really it's FedEx's fault because it arrived with a massive hole on the side of the box.

The second one was a charm and seriously scared me with the amount of power it drives....however I found a wee bit problem as a result of that...which is that my concrete (slightly uneven in places) floor is incompatible with the sub platform. At high volume the sub actually walks about a foot to the left, as a consequence I can hear the rattling as it lifts off the ground and starts to walk.

Disclaimer: I have polished concrete floor and I tend to have a bass bias on my setup ( read: I'm only satisfied if you can feel it 5 floors down).

As a result, I'm likely going to exchange it for the pb-13 ultra since that weighs about 155lbs...which should resolve the walking issue.

Other than that, this is an awesome sub and I really wanted to keep it since everyone now asks WTF is that large round thing in your living room, watching their jaws drop as they discover it's a sub is my ultimate satisfaction.
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post #18 of 40 Old 08-01-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manzola View Post

Update: Got the PC-13 Ultra two weeks ago and it bojangled my mind with power only known to the gods of Mt. Olympus.

However, it arrived damaged from shipping. The baseplate was cracked and the amp would shut off after a few seconds. This continued for a couple hours then I gave up. A couple days I tried it out again and it worked, so I got to play around with it for a day before the replacement arrived. Let me just say the SVS guys have been just amazing with the whole ordeal, and really it's FedEx's fault because it arrived with a massive hole on the side of the box.

The second one was a charm and seriously scared me with the amount of power it drives....however I found a wee bit problem as a result of that...which is that my concrete (slightly uneven in places) floor is incompatible with the sub platform. At high volume the sub actually walks about a foot to the left, as a consequence I can hear the rattling as it lifts off the ground and starts to walk.

Disclaimer: I have polished concrete floor and I tend to have a bass bias on my setup ( read: I'm only satisfied if you can feel it 5 floors down).

As a result, I'm likely going to exchange it for the pb-13 ultra since that weighs about 155lbs...which should resolve the walking issue.

Other than that, this is an awesome sub and I really wanted to keep it since everyone now asks WTF is that large round thing in your living room, watching their jaws drop as they discover it's a sub is my ultimate satisfaction.

A small piece of carpeting under the subwoofer or an Auralex SubDude will help with the walking issue.

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post #19 of 40 Old 08-01-2013, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

A small piece of carpeting under the subwoofer or an Auralex SubDude will help with the walking issue.
Or a piece of this, cut to size:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202015909&R=202015909#.UP66YGeYUYc

But I can't imagine a polished concrete floor sounds good in the mids and highs, unless there's a lot of rug covering it.

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post #20 of 40 Old 08-02-2013, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Or a piece of this, cut to size:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202015909&R=202015909#.UP66YGeYUYc

But I can't imagine a polished concrete floor sounds good in the mids and highs, unless there's a lot of rug covering it.


Going to head to home depot and give it a try, as far as the sound....you are correct there is tons of reflection + room gain from the concrete. It's less than ideal but I will be moving next year hopefully can get a better room setup.

I really had to experiment with dozens of settings to make it sound decent.
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post #21 of 40 Old 08-02-2013, 12:26 AM
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Dude, do you have downstairs neighbors? Beautiful apartment, by the way.
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post #22 of 40 Old 08-03-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cjvnyc View Post

Dude, do you have downstairs neighbors? Beautiful apartment, by the way.

I live on the 10th floor of a high rise but there is 9 inches of concrete that separates our floors. I'm sure they can still hear some of it, but I have not once in 4 years of living here heard anything from a neighbor with the exception of...high heels, imagine that.

And thanks! Chicago is a beautiful...but cold city.
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post #23 of 40 Old 08-14-2013, 02:33 AM
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Manzola, how's the progress of your settings?

Bass, please. Shaken, not stirred.
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post #24 of 40 Old 08-14-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I kind of like the water heater look. biggrin.gif

I miss my pair of 16-46's I had back in the day. Those bad boys dug deep.

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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree addict! They did dig deep and was my first wow ever with true bass.

eek.gif Don't say that. I'm getting ready to replace my 16-46PC+ that I've enjoyed for over 10 years. Hope I'm not making a mistake.

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Just don't get a cat. I wonder if SVS can provide a replacement sock if yours ended up mutilated by a cat?

I am using an SVS 20-39 PCi and the sock has not been a problem.

Fortunately none of my 3 cats ever paid any attention to my cylinder sub.

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post #25 of 40 Old 08-14-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxht View Post

Manzola, how's the progress of your settings?

I have been trying out the sub with a carpet underneath it for the last week. I watched War of the Worlds (in the name of bass, because really this movie is so bad it was misery) and unfortunately it still hops a tiny bit- which manifests itself in a rattling noise that's just not going to do it for me.

Ultimately I keep changing my mind daily whether to try something else or just exchange it for the PB-13 Ultra while I'm under the trial period... I will probably end up exchanging since the 155 lbs of the PB-13 Ultra is basically guarantee to make it sit still under any load without modification.
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post #26 of 40 Old 08-14-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manzola View Post

Chicago is a beautiful...but cold city.

Are you referring to the temperature or the populace?

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post #27 of 40 Old 08-15-2013, 02:21 AM
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I wonder whether the Auralex Subdude will be able to solve your problem.

The PB13-Ultra will surely stay at its spot. Mine never move an inch. If it does, I am surprise eek.gif

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post #28 of 40 Old 08-15-2013, 03:06 AM
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Make some subwoofer risers for less than the cost of the subdue and then you can make them fit you décor. It may improve the sound of the bass in the room and can act as a bass trap. If nothing else, it will sure make life easier moving the subs around.

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post #29 of 40 Old 08-15-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manzola View Post

I have been trying out the sub with a carpet underneath it for the last week. I watched War of the Worlds (in the name of bass, because really this movie is so bad it was misery) and unfortunately it still hops a tiny bit- which manifests itself in a rattling noise that's just not going to do it for me.

Ultimately I keep changing my mind daily whether to try something else or just exchange it for the PB-13 Ultra while I'm under the trial period... I will probably end up exchanging since the 155 lbs of the PB-13 Ultra is basically guarantee to make it sit still under any load without modification.

I'm very surprised the old rug trick didn't work. It seems like you ought to be able to come up with something that's a easy fix. How thick was the carpet?

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post #30 of 40 Old 08-15-2013, 02:51 PM
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Something like a tile of foam "gym" floor would work, i think.

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