Confused - Rel Sub and Audyssey - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 07-20-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deeda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have a Rel T-9 sub. I have read some reviews recently about Rel and they seemed to indicate that Rel does not work well with room correction systems. I have an older version of Audyssey on my Onkyo TX-SR-805 receiver.

The question I have is how I should go about setting up the sub. Should I follow the Rel manual and set it up and then do the room correction. Of should I do room correction and then follow Rel manual. Or is there something else that I should be doing.

Thanks for help.
deeda is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 07-20-2013, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 741
Your avr has Audyssey XT which is now the second best Audyssey on an avr (only exceeded now by the XT32 version). XT does have ability to eq the sub, and I'd use it with the avr's setup routine, then, if it sounds bad, then think about doing something else.

What reviews? Link 'em so we can read what you did. Personally never heard that about any particular sub and Audyssey. I heard a Rel once and wasn't impressed but then have no idea what that store did to set it up properly.

That's one expensive 10" sub, though....what makes it worth that kind of money?

lovinthehd is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 07-20-2013, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deeda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks. I was persuaded by BB Magnolia that Rel would be good fit with my B&W in-ceiling speakers. I was not familiar with this forum at the time.

I have read that many people favor 2 subs. How would I connect 2 subs with my Onkyo TX-SR 805 receiver.

Also, would it make sense to use identical subs. I would think yes, particularly if I have Rel sub.

Thoughts???
deeda is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 12:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Quote:
I have read that many people favor 2 subs. How would I connect 2 subs with my Onkyo TX-SR 805 receiver.
You would want to use a Y splitter.
Quote:
Also, would it make sense to use identical subs. I would think yes, particularly if I have Rel sub.

Thoughts???

No it’s really not a good idea. It can be done employing Q but not advised. One option might be to sell the Rel and then proceed?

This is by a speaker and SW designer that is well respected around here pertaining to mixing differently tuned subs. .

Bill Fitz,
It makes about as much engineering sense as putting a snow tire on one wheel of your car, a rain tire on another, a summer tire on the third and a racing slick on the fourth. The intent would be to have good performance in all road conditions, the result would be bad performance in any.

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deeda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So are you saying that I should have identical subs?
deeda is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 08:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeda View Post

So are you saying that I should have identical subs?

Since you’re in the posture of buying another sub, yes that is my suggestion. You have a couple different options in going about it which I alluded to also.

EDIT> You can use any two SW’s you choose with your B&W speakers. You will receive no benefit staying with two like Rel’s over two like other options if both options are (equal).

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 09:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeda View Post

Thanks. I was persuaded by BB Magnolia that Rel would be good fit with my B&W in-ceiling speakers. I was not familiar with this forum at the time.

I have read that many people favor 2 subs. How would I connect 2 subs with my Onkyo TX-SR 805 receiver.

Also, would it make sense to use identical subs. I would think yes, particularly if I have Rel sub.

Thoughts???

Gotta love sales people at BB talking about stuff they need to sell.

Most favor identical subs, for several good reasons, but you can use dissimilar subs but you will be limited by the better sub and would take more tweaking to get the dissimilar subs to work best for you. There are some arguments for using different subs from guys like Geddes, too. Some good reading in this thread and in some of the links from it:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1380013/my-multi-location-subwoofer-thread-inspired-by-welti-devantier-geddes

Right now I've got dissimilar subs in my living room, and while it helps smooth response and tame some nulls, it's not ideal but I'm saving up for more sub woofage. I'd sell the Rel personally and for about the same money you could have two better performing ID subs (say from SVS or Outlaw and even better subs from them and others if you up your budget somewhat). Depends on where you want to go with this. Since you have in ceiling speakers this may be beyond your interest since you've already chosen aesthetics over performance.

I'd still like to see the reviews about Audyssey as related to Rel setup...
steve nn likes this.

lovinthehd is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 11:58 AM
Member
 
Lance-AR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
How many cubic feet is your listening area?
How far is your main listening position from your existing sub?

I would read the Audessy FAQ thread and see what kind of performance you're getting after calibration.
Lance-AR is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
steve nn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,207
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Quote:
Gotta love sales people at BB talking about stuff they need to sell.

That is very true, but then lets not forget we see it here on the forum as well... maybe want to sell would be a better descriptive here on the forum? smile.gif

Klipsch RB-75
Klipsch C-7
Klipsch RB-35
On-going SW management class
Denon
PS3
steve nn is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 01:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 140
I have used both identical and different subs in my system and things sounded great with either setup. Geddes, an expert on subwoofers also feel thats non identical subs are fine. I have also had just as much trouble blending identical subs and the non-identical subs with the system. To be truthful, the identical subs were harder to get right in my experience. For different subs, use level matching and for identical subs, use gain matching.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
derrickdj1 is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 08-27-2013, 03:34 PM
Member
 
leefarber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'll tell you what I did to integrate my Rel R-528 into my system with excellent results:

- Set the LOW PASS FILTER (LPF) on your Receiver to 250 (or to its highest setting).
- Follow Rel's instructions for proper room placement, crossover and level setting. This is a very delicate process requiring lots of patience and experimentation. Do not use Audyssey during this part of the process.
- UNHOOK the Neutrik Speakon connection to the Rel, but leave in the .1 connection.
- Run Audyssey
- Make sure Mains are set to LARGE.
- RE-CONNECT the Neutrik Speakon Connection.

I arrived at this after lots of research. I love how my system sounds now. I chose the Rel because I play two-channel music through my Mac Mini via a USB DAC connected to my Marantz 8801 in Pure Direct mode and I want to have deep bass from the sub even without bass management coming from the Pre/Pro (since it's in Pure Direct).

Hopefully this works for you as well. Good luck!
leefarber is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 08-27-2013, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deeda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
thanks. I will give it a shot.
deeda is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 08-27-2013, 11:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
I have a Rel T-9 sub. I have read some reviews recently about Rel and they seemed to indicate that Rel does not work well with room correction systems. I have an older version of Audyssey on my Onkyo TX-SR-805 receiver.

The question I have is how I should go about setting up the sub. Should I follow the Rel manual and set it up and then do the room correction. Of should I do room correction and then follow Rel manual. Or is there something else that I should be doing.

Thanks for help.

REL subs are sub bass systems not subwoofers meaning the way they have to be hooked up makes them more of an extension of the mains with an added job of LFE. With REL sub; think of it as a woofer in a 3-way speaker speaker system albeit outside of the speaker cabinet. That is the reason RELs have to be hooked at both line level and speaker level. Connecting with neutrik plug makes them the woofer for the mains (set as Large) and at the same time hooking up the rca cable using low level input does the duty of LFE playback. Your mains have to be hooked up through the sub via high level connectivity and not directly from the avr . This is how RELs must be hooked to exploit their full potential.

Like Leefarbar said, first give it a low level connection and run audyssey. Then change the speaker to large and connect them through the sub using high level connection on it.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 09-08-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deeda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefarber View Post

I'll tell you what I did to integrate my Rel R-528 into my system with excellent results:

- Set the LOW PASS FILTER (LPF) on your Receiver to 250 (or to its highest setting).
- Follow Rel's instructions for proper room placement, crossover and level setting. This is a very delicate process requiring lots of patience and experimentation. Do not use Audyssey during this part of the process.
- UNHOOK the Neutrik Speakon connection to the Rel, but leave in the .1 connection.
- Run Audyssey
- Make sure Mains are set to LARGE.
- RE-CONNECT the Neutrik Speakon Connection.

I arrived at this after lots of research. I love how my system sounds now. I chose the Rel because I play two-channel music through my Mac Mini via a USB DAC connected to my Marantz 8801 in Pure Direct mode and I want to have deep bass from the sub even without bass management coming from the Pre/Pro (since it's in Pure Direct).

Hopefully this works for you as well. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. A couple of questions.

1. Prior to running Audyssey should I set my receiver to direct or pure audio so that I am not using any of the processing in the receiver during first part of set up?

2. When I am finally using my system I assume that I will get different output from my sub depending on whether I am using Audyssey or Direct/Pure Audio. I can see situations in which I may want to use Direct or Pure Audio for listening to 2 channel music and Audssey for home theater. One problem I currently have is that it appears to me that either the sub is too boomy when I am on Direct / Pure Audio and not enough when I am using Audyssey.

I must be getting this wrong. I assume I should be able to do both without having to manually adjust the sub LFE, level setting, etc.

Does any of this make sense to you?
deeda is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 09-08-2013, 10:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
braveheart123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lone Wolf McQuade from Islamabad Pakistan
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
1. Prior to running Audyssey should I set my receiver to direct or pure audio so that I am not using any of the processing in the receiver during first part of set up?

Audyssey will bypass any sound modes your receiver is in and calibrate the system from scratch. The new settings will override the current ones whatever they may be.
Quote:
2. When I am finally using my system I assume that I will get different output from my sub depending on whether I am using Audyssey or Direct/Pure Audio. I can see situations in which I may want to use Direct or Pure Audio for listening to 2 channel music and Audssey for home theater. One problem I currently have is that it appears to me that either the sub is too boomy when I am on Direct / Pure Audio and not enough when I am using Audyssey.

Re-run audyssey, it should deal with the room modes. Audyssey is not the definitive point. You can always tweak it to your preferences.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

Alpine SWR-1223D Slot Ported HT Sub

Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
braveheart123 is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 09-08-2013, 10:06 PM
Member
 
leefarber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
braveheart123 beat me to it! Exactly what he said...
leefarber is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old 09-09-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
deeda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by leefarber View Post

I'll tell you what I did to integrate my Rel R-528 into my system with excellent results:

- Set the LOW PASS FILTER (LPF) on your Receiver to 250 (or to its highest setting).
- Follow Rel's instructions for proper room placement, crossover and level setting. This is a very delicate process requiring lots of patience and experimentation. Do not use Audyssey during this part of the process.
- UNHOOK the Neutrik Speakon connection to the Rel, but leave in the .1 connection.
- Run Audyssey
- Make sure Mains are set to LARGE.
- RE-CONNECT the Neutrik Speakon Connection.

I arrived at this after lots of research. I love how my system sounds now. I chose the Rel because I play two-channel music through my Mac Mini via a USB DAC connected to my Marantz 8801 in Pure Direct mode and I want to have deep bass from the sub even without bass management coming from the Pre/Pro (since it's in Pure Direct).

Hopefully this works for you as well. Good luck!

Thanks. I followed the directions. I am not sure it is perfect, but it is greatly improved.
deeda is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old 09-09-2013, 11:08 PM
Member
 
leefarber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Glad to hear it!
deeda likes this.
leefarber is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Audyssey

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off