Good Sub woofer for under $400 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, two questions for you.

I'm currently using a Denon AVR 1912 receiver to power B&W 686 bi-amped speakers. The sound is excellent for my small room which is where i listen to music/TV/Movies. Just experienced some weird popping sounds last Saturday while watching an action movie (it was a gun shot sound) - is this happening because I don't have a sub woofer?

Regardless, I'm looking to get a sub soon. I was told the sub manufacturer doesn't need to match the speakers. Looking to spend $400 or less. Open to all suggestions.

Thanks,

Tyler
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 01:31 PM
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You will get a lot of suggestions but, don't overlook the Premiere Acoustic PA 150 it is one on my favorite subs that I have owed. It has good build quality and a beautiful finish. Great bang for the buck, I have owned several Klipsch, Epik, SVS and Chase subs to name a few. This sub has a decent low end and great mid bass slam. The Klipsch $299 subs are also a nice purchase.

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post #3 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 01:34 PM
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I vote PA-150 also...It has the mid bass slam of subs in the 1000-2000range, just not near the low end extension, but still decent.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Good stuff, thanks guys! Looking through older posts on this forum the Klipsch RW-12d looks like a great bargain as well. The PA 150's specs look amazing for the price however, it's still listed at $500.

Regarding the popping noise while watching the a movie last Saturday - do you think this is due to the lack of a sub? I'm worried that I might have hurt my new B&Ws...
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post #5 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 03:18 PM
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I've got the Klipsch RW-12D paired with my 684's and it sounds awfully good to my untrained ears.
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post #6 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchalk View Post

Good stuff, thanks guys! Looking through older posts on this forum the Klipsch RW-12d looks like a great bargain as well. The PA 150's specs look amazing for the price however, it's still listed at $500.

Regarding the popping noise while watching the a movie last Saturday - do you think this is due to the lack of a sub? I'm worried that I might have hurt my new B&Ws...

if you make a offer of 350.00 they most likely will accept it. Check out the PA-150 thread. Your B&W's were likely out of steam and not designed to play the lfe content that you were pumping thru them. Get a sub, cross the mains around 80hz, and let er' rip.
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 04:53 PM
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The BIC America PL-200 is an excellent 12" sub for $330 or less shipped. It performed so well that I purchased a 2ND one.

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post #8 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 04:59 PM
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The PA-150 absolutely destroy's the PL-200...its a no brainer imo.

Reference the Data here:

data-bass.com/systems
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

The PA-150 absolutely destroy's the PL-200...its a no brainer imo.

Reference the Data here:

data-bass.com/systems

yes the pa is slightly better then the bic pl200 based on those numbers but I wouldn't say it blows it away. The bic will do you well is you have a tight budget. otherwise get what you can afford spend the cash. the PA, Rw-12 and pl200 are all budget subs that will give you decent bang for that kinda buck ( around 400 bucks) you wont go wrong with any of those at these price range. However I would wait save another 150 and get the outlaw lfm 1 plus like I'm trying to do so you don't make my mistake and buy one of these cheaper subs and regret it like I do lol smile.gif
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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According to this site; http://home-subwoofers-review.toptenreviews.com/bic-acoustech-review.html, the BIC-200 is a better value than the PA-150 + I wouldn't have to bargain down a $499 ebay product to $350. The RW-12D looks great too. This is tough. I'm leaning toward the BIC-200 now... until you just brought up another option glantern! Hell. the outlaw looks really nice too.

Probably going to save the $150 for a B&W center channel instead, I'm not a heavy bass person anyways. Great feedback, many thanks.

Also, if anyway cares to address; Will adding a sub-woofer to my system eliminate the popping sound I got last Saturday from a movie w/ a guy firing a gun? My guess is that the B&W tried to hit a lower frequency and failed... made a popping sound instead. Speakers still sound great btw, i don't think they were damaged. Maybe this is a subject for another forum..
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post #11 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahhh,... there it is. Cross the mains around 80 - let her rip - absolutely! Thank you sir.
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

yes the pa is slightly better then the bic pl200 based on those numbers but I wouldn't say it blows it away. The bic will do you well is you have a tight budget. otherwise get what you can afford spend the cash. the PA, Rw-12 and pl200 are all budget subs that will give you decent bang for that kinda buck ( around 400 bucks) you wont go wrong with any of those at these price range. However I would wait save another 150 and get the outlaw lfm 1 plus like I'm trying to do so you don't make my mistake and buy one of these cheaper subs and regret it like I do lol smile.gif

the PA-150 has a 9db advantage at 20hz, a 2-3db advantage from 25-50hz, a 10-12db advantage from 63hz on up. You can get a PA-150 for aroud 350.00 shipped...I will say the PL-200 is more linear in its FR response.

dont get me wrong the PL-200 is a decent sub if you can get it for under 300.00, but at that point I would go with a Klipsch RW-12D.
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post #13 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchalk View Post

According to this site; http://home-subwoofers-review.toptenreviews.com/bic-acoustech-review.html, the BIC-200 is a better value than the PA-150 + I wouldn't have to bargain down a $499 ebay product to $350. The RW-12D looks great too. This is tough. I'm leaning toward the BIC-200 now... until you just brought up another option glantern! Hell. the outlaw looks really nice too.

Probably going to save the $150 for a B&W center channel instead, I'm not a heavy bass person anyways. Great feedback, many thanks.

Also, if anyway cares to address; Will adding a sub-woofer to my system eliminate the popping sound I got last Saturday from a movie w/ a guy firing a gun? My guess is that the B&W tried to hit a lower frequency and failed... made a popping sound instead. Speakers still sound great btw, i don't think they were damaged. Maybe this is a subject for another forum..

you dont have to bargain down...you simply submit a offer for 350.00 and it should be accepted. again read the PA-150 thread. I will say the PL-200 is more linear in its frequency response. You will probably be satisfied with either unit for a starter sub. Also if you do not like heavy bass, you can keep the 150 turned down and have better headroom...jmo
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post #14 of 28 Old 07-22-2013, 11:35 PM
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Good reviews for the NXG Technology NX-BAS-500 12" 500-watt Powered Subwoofer.

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post #15 of 28 Old 07-23-2013, 12:24 AM
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How can we tell what weird popping sounds sound like to you? How loud were you listening? Maybe it was the particular sound in the movie, too. I'd recommend getting a sub in any case. You're getting some of the usual basic recommendations so far. I bought an RW12d for my bedroom, for a $300 sub it's fine, but I haven't heard the others. I've seen a few former BIC owners prefer the Klipsch. There's probably some former Klipsch owners that prefer the BIC. The PA150 for $350 sounds interesting but don't know much about it. Might want to look thru these threads http://www.avsforum.com/t/1396482/budget-subwoofers-discussions-opinions-and-questions-thread and this one http://www.avsforum.com/t/1364182/list-of-budget-subwoofers-300-and-less.
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post #16 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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So check this out. To make a long story short, the wife discovered the dimensions on the sub woofer and nearly flipped. Our space isn't that big and to her credit, it would've been hard to place the sub near the fronts, or even in between the sofas (after wiring over a door jam). I agreed to check out the BIC v1220 at Best Buy, and shocker, they didn't had any there. A Magnolia sales guy (God bless him btw) demonstrated a SC4000 ($800 btw) sub and went on and on about how price shouldn't be a factor on the purchase *cough* *cough*.... We even listened to the smaller B&W sub which would pair w/ my 686's and it wasn't nearly as clean - that said it might not have been dialed in right.

SO! we go to the Magnolia Store (much better than Best Buy - shared ownership) and it turns out they're having a clearing sale... humm. The guy spends an hour trying to duplicate my bi-amp 686 set up with no luck. While he's working on that the wife and I walk around and go by a boxed SC6000, which retails $1000 on sale for $800. I tell the guy we'd take it for $400. Don't hate me but! the guy comes back and says he can do it for $650/$625 - I naturally suggest a clean $600, and BOOM! out the door.

Hooked it up last night (only 13x13x13) and holy f-ing crap! This is my first sub. Having the lower sounds blend seamlessly into my mid to upper tuned 686 is a great feeling. Of course I needed to do a movie sound track too. On my Pandora movie sound tracks station, as if on que, the Dark Night and then Inception came on... I had no idea... this is a game changer. The super low note on Inception has still got me grinning like a little kid.

So as it turns out I didn't get a lower priced value sub; I probably got an over priced sub for a value deal. Either way many thanks to all the help received on this forum, and my wife! Can't wait to get home and destroy the neighbors.

Tyler
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post #17 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 09:51 AM
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Congrats on the new sub glad you like it...

Some advice: don't go listen to other subs and you should be happy with the SC6000. But if you go listen to other subs especially internet direct subs that are in the $600 price range you will wonder why you ever paid $600 for the SC6000.

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post #18 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Congrats on the new sub glad you like it...

Some advice: don't go listen to other subs and you should be happy with the SC6000. But if you go listen to other subs especially internet direct subs that are in the $600 price range you will wonder why you ever paid $600 for the SC6000.

Ouch... and I guess, thanks?
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post #19 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 12:34 PM
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Sorry. Not trying to be mean or rude. Like I said if you like it that's great. You are the only person who needs to like it. And honestly for its size it probably does sound pretty good to a certain point.

Again not trying to be rude but ignorance is bliss. I used to think Onkyo HTIB's had subs that sounded good. Then I thought Polk Subs sounded good. But then I started researching and found all these ppl ranting and raving about how awesome internet direct sub companies are. Guess what I listened to them and I bought a pair of Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus subs and those subs will destroy anything at an HH Greg or a Best Buy ( without a Magnolia store).

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post #20 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 12:47 PM
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There are many former owners of SuperCubes around here once they figure out their relative worth and performance. They have good WAF due to their size, though, and that can be worth an extra $300 to some wives....

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #21 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I vote PA-150 also...It has the mid bass slam of subs in the 1000-2000range, just not near the low end extension, but still decent.

+1

I don't think the PA-150 gets recommended enough. Especially if someone is looking for a sub for bass heavy music (e.g. EDM or hip hop) in a larger room along with HT usage. Dual PA-150s might be a better choice over a single VTF-3 MK4 or Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX. Having duals for better room filling bass would seem worth the tradeoff over the less powerful <30hz extension.

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post #22 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

There are many former owners of SuperCubes around here once they figure out their relative worth and performance. They have good WAF due to their size, though, and that can be worth an extra $300 to some wives....
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Sorry. Not trying to be mean or rude. Like I said if you like it that's great. You are the only person who needs to like it. And honestly for its size it probably does sound pretty good to a certain point.

Again not trying to be rude but ignorance is bliss. I used to think Onkyo HTIB's had subs that sounded good. Then I thought Polk Subs sounded good. But then I started researching and found all these ppl ranting and raving about how awesome internet direct sub companies are. Guess what I listened to them and I bought a pair of Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus subs and those subs will destroy anything at an HH Greg or a Best Buy ( without a Magnolia store).

No doubt, ignorance is bliss, only wishing that I was able to keep mine longer, lol. SuperCube fans feel free to chime in anytime?
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post #23 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 04:42 PM
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No doubt, ignorance is bliss, only wishing that I was able to keep mine longer, lol. SuperCube fans feel free to chime in anytime?

Here on this forum it's all about output with little to no regard for size or generally price as long as it is deemed a good "value".

I'm one who over paid for a SC 8000. I generally like the sub, quite a lot actually, but I want more output below 25hz than this little box can give. So one day I'm going to change it out for on the the ID brands. Hopefully I won't be disappointed since I'm out nearly $300 shipping on any of the ID brand subs if I don't like it or it doesn't perform to my expectations.

I think you got a nice sub at a good price that fits your requirements for size. And they do sound good. They just don't have the output or extension of the bigger and/or more expensive ID subs. I use the remote all the time since my older AVR isn't convenient to making sub channel level changes.

The only sub in that $600 range and size that I would have considered is the SVS SB12 or for a little less the SB1000.

Enjoy your sub. The only thing you're missing compared to the ID brands is some low end extension and output of the larger boxes.
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post #24 of 28 Old 07-24-2013, 08:59 PM
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Enjoy your sub. The only thing you're missing compared to the ID brands is some low end extension and output of the larger boxes.

Good advice on the enjoying your listening experience. However, around here, being satisfied with missing low end and extension is like........going to a great restaurant and having something like an white egg omelette plain.

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post #25 of 28 Old 07-25-2013, 11:59 AM
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It's his first subwoofer and well you gotta start somewhere. My first one was a 8" Boston Acoustics sub. At the time I thought it was awesome but it would bottom out on stuff in the ~30-35Hz range if the volume was turned up too high. The SC-6000 should do decently in a small room especially if your space limited.
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post #26 of 28 Old 07-25-2013, 02:30 PM
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Yes, and he may or may not get as addicted to good/better/best bass as some of us. smile.gif Sometimes we just gotta encourage people not to take the baby steps (as many of us have gone thru), as it's more expensive, time-consuming and less satisfying in the long run.
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post #27 of 28 Old 07-25-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Yes, and he may or may not get as addicted to good/better/best bass as some of us. smile.gif Sometimes we just gotta encourage people not to take the baby steps (as many of us have gone thru), as it's more expensive, time-consuming and less satisfying in the long run.

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post #28 of 28 Old 07-25-2013, 03:19 PM
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Then there's the passive bi-amping with an avr....but we'll leave that to another thread. smile.gif

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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