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post #1 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Greetings, I'm currently building a home theater(drywall stage) thus I'm starting to do more research on equipment. I have my speakers all selected(Infinity system). Now I need to move to the sub. The room is a smaller sized room at 10.5" x 16.6". Will be using a 7.1 speaker setup and will be 90% movies. Here is my equipment list:

Onkyo 809 Receiver
Sony BDP-5100 Bluray
Panny Ae8000 Projector

Subwoofer Requirements:

Budget Ceiling of $300
Something that can hit and sound well in the mid 20 range or lower.


Read that the best sub under $300 was the BIC H-100 but that thread was a little older.

Thank you.

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post #2 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 03:39 PM
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Klipsch RW-12D when on sale at newegg for under 300.00.
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post #3 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Budget Ceiling of $300
Something that can hit and sound well in the mid 20 range or lower.
 

Klipsch can get to mid to low 20's, depending on your room (I have one and I've measured it).

I, personally, would have spent less on the AVR and more on the sub.

But, since you have a nice AVR, the Audyssey MultiEQ XT should be able to integrate the sub well.

These Daytons are supposed to be a great deal, and you can get two!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-629

Enjoy.


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post #4 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Klipsch RW-12D when on sale at newegg for under 300.00.

^^ +1

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post #5 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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What would give me better, deeper, lower bass. 1 of those Klipsch 12-d's or 2 of those Daytons? Can those Dayton's get low to mid 20's?

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post #6 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 04:06 PM
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The Klipsch all day and twice on sunday. However I do like dual subs better than a single, but you will be giving up some extension if you go that route. Best bet would be to geta rw-12 now and add another later if you feel the need.
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post #7 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

What would give me better, deeper, lower bass. 1 of those Klipsch 12-d's or 2 of those Daytons? Can those Dayton's get low to mid 20's?

No.. the 12D is better.

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post #8 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok where is the cutoff for the 12D in low frequency but still giving off high good amounts of bass before it starts to dip in performance?

Also, how does the BIC F12 compare to the 12D?

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post #9 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 11:22 PM
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You'll get clean and loud output down to about 30hz with the RW-12D. At 25hz and below, it's mostly just blowing air through the port.
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post #10 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

You'll get clean and loud output down to about 30hz with the RW-12D. At 25hz and below, it's mostly just blowing air through the port.

LOL.. That's funny.. I used to think the same thing though.. well untill I tried one. wink.gif The Bottom graph is from another member.




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post #11 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow that 12D can go pretty low and still perform great. At least I think I'm reading those graphs right...?

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post #12 of 80 Old 07-22-2013, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Wow that 12D can go pretty low and still perform great. At least I think I'm reading those graphs right...?

Yes it can! I bought this sub because I was tired of hearing about it and thought it way over rated. I was out to prove it too. Lets just say I was wrong. redface.gifbiggrin.gif

EDIT> It would be nice to see it up on the Data board.. http://www.data-bass.com/systems

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post #13 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 05:15 AM
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The 12-d is the best sub for deep extension under 400.00 bucks.
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post #14 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

At 25hz and below, it's mostly just blowing air through the port.

Well, yeah, that's what the port is for. wink.gif


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post #15 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Well, yeah, that's what the port is for. wink.gif

Blowing air, as in primarily chuffing sounds instead of bass. OP was asking at what point the RW-12D is still clean AND loud. Frequency response graphs are one thing, but they don't show compression and distortion when played at high levels. Download the HSU test tones and try playing the 25hz warble tone, and compare that to the 31.5hz tone. In my room, at least, there is a huge drop off in both volume and sound quality.

Just to be clear, I'm not knocking the RW-12D. It's the best sub you can get for $300. However, it doesn't have clean extension into the low 20's unless you're in a small room and/or play at low or moderate volumes.
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post #16 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

Download the HSU test tones and try playing the 25hz warble tone, and compare that to the 31.5hz tone. In my room, at least, there is a huge drop off in both volume and sound quality.

I have. I did. This kind of thing is VERY room-specific. I have this:

 

 

 

The only time I've had chuffing is with the Server Room scene from Pulse (see links to demo material in sig).

If you have options for sub placement, have you tried the sub crawl?

 

 

OP: keep an eye out here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1442829/klipsch-rw-12d-on-sale-for-299-at-newegg-com-again-today/2340#post_23546455

and here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1420999/klipsch-rw-12d-subwoofer-only-299-save-70/540#post_23523969

or just check newegg yourself (you can set an email alert).

Michael


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post #17 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 10:20 AM
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Yes, I agree that it is very room specific. I have mine placed as close to the front corner as I can, which is the ideal placement in my room, but my space is probably just a bit bigger than the RW-12D can handle. In my room when set in depth mode, I need the volume at -13dB on the sub for Audyssey to set a 0 trim, and I hear chuffing/creaking noises quite often, even when I watch at -15 to -12 below reference.

Have you done a sweep at or beyond 100dB? To me, loud should be at least 100dB from the sub, and I'm interested to see how the frequency response changes when it is pushed.
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post #18 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tenderchkn View Post

Have you done a sweep at or beyond 100dB? To me, loud should be at least 100dB from the sub, and I'm interested to see how the frequency response changes when it is pushed.

No. My tinnitus is bad enough as it is. wink.gif

Do you have an SPL meter? 100dB is LOUD.

Next time they're on sale, get another and stack them. smile.gif


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post #19 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 10:49 AM
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No, I don't have a SPL meter handy, but I do realize that 100dB is loud. That said, our ears are quite insensitive to bass frequencies so 100dB of 25hz should not be uncomfortable at all. It is said a lot on this forum that most people watch movies between -10 and -20dB below reference. Since reference levels call for 115dB peaks for the LFE channel, I think a 100dB sweep (which would be equivalent to -15 below reference) would be more descriptive of a subwoofer's performance. Ultra low bass at 80dB is likely to be barely audible over the noise floor, so it is not very useful to know how deep it can extend to at 80dB.

I considered getting another one to stack, but now, I have a PSA XV-15 on the way. smile.gif
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post #20 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 11:01 AM
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THAT should do the trick!

Enjoy.


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post #21 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 11:24 AM
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I considered getting another one to stack, but now, I have a PSA XV-15 on the way. smile.gif

I was in a smaller room and noticed no compression. If I were to put the 12D in one of my past leaky rooms or theater I’m sure I would have noticed compression at higher levels. I know I have with way more sub than the XV-15.. way more. That being that, no one is saying the 12D compares to the XV-15. Anyway congrats on your new SW purchase, it will be a very nice upgrade for you. smile.gif

One thing I might suggest though is not go running around beating other subs up because you upgraded to a XV-15. It has a way of turning people off to the product. Like said, I don’t think anyone has said the 12D compares to the XV-15. Another thing you might remember is that there are many options that will be on par with the XV or better. Yeah might cost more but none the same. wink.gif

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post #22 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 12:02 PM
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I didn't read it as "beating other subs up." I love my 12d and wish him well with his XV-15. I'm sure the OP (you still here?) will be very happy with the 12d, and, if (when) he goes on to upgrade in the future, there will be plenty of much more expensive options then, too.

As a matter of fact, once my computer finishes the endless backup it's in the middle of, I have my SPL meter ready to take those readings he requested.

Stay tuned.

Michael


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post #23 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

I didn't read it as "beating other subs up." I love my 12d and wish him well with his XV-15. I'm sure the OP (you still here?) will be very happy with the 12d, and, if (when) he goes on to upgrade in the future, there will be plenty of much more expensive options then, too.
As a matter of fact, once my computer finishes the endless backup it's in the middle of, I have my SPL meter ready to take those readings he requested.
Stay tuned.
Michael

Ah! I'm just in a pissy mood I guess. Of course I wish him well, I extended the same wish and recommend PSA all the time.

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post #24 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 12:36 PM
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One thing I might suggest though is not go running around beating other subs up because you upgraded to a XV-15. It has a way of turning people off to the product. Like said, I don’t think anyone has said the 12D compares to the XV-15. Another thing you might remember is that there are many options that will be on par with the XV or better. Yeah might cost more but none the same. wink.gif

I'm sorry if it came off that way, but that's certainly not what I meant. I was simply responding to LastButNotLeast's suggestion that I get another RW-12D. The upgrade decision that I made was based on many hours of research, factoring in my specific room, budget and listening habits. I don't presume that any of this applies to anyone else.

I have not said anything negative about the RW-12D, beyond objective statements about my own experiences with one. I previously said that it is the best sub at $300. Nowhere did I suggest that OP should consider an XV-15, given that his stated budget is $300.
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post #25 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 12:57 PM
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That was fun.

At about 6 inches in front of my RW-12d. My poor AVR set at -3.5dB. Hsu warbles.

40Hz        100dB

31.5Hz     105dB

25Hz         104dB and a nice breeze from the port!

20Hz           98dB

16Hz          about 80dB

(ButtKicker off wink.gif)

 

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post #26 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 01:09 PM
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Oh cool - that's a lot better than I expected. Hope you had some hearing protection that close to the sub!
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post #27 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

That was fun.
At about 6 inches in front of my RW-12d. My poor AVR set at -3.5dB. Hsu warbles.
40Hz        100dB
31.5Hz     105dB
25Hz         104dB and a nice breeze from the port!
20Hz           98dB
16Hz          about 80dB
(ButtKicker off wink.gif )

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Huh!.. it did better than I thought it would. I'll not pull mine out of storage then smile.gif
Quote:
I'm sorry if it came off that way, but that's certainly not what I meant. I was simply responding to LastButNotLeast's suggestion that I get another RW-12D. The upgrade decision that I made was based on many hours of research, factoring in my specific room, budget and listening habits. I don't presume that any of this applies to anyone else.
I have not said anything negative about the RW-12D, beyond objective statements about my own experiences with one. I previously said that it is the best sub at $300. Nowhere did I suggest that OP should consider an XV-15, given that his stated budget is $300. [/QUOTE

No tend I clearly came off to strong. It’s a commination of things that aren’t related to you. Some of it concerns what I see at times here on the forum and the rest concerns my parents health and what I have had to do concerning. Maybe, hopefully, you can still glean something from my last post though. cool.gif

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post #28 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 01:31 PM
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No tend I clearly came off to strong. It’s a commination of things that aren’t related to you. Some of it concerns what I see at times here on the forum and the rest concerns my parents health and what I have had to do concerning. Maybe, hopefully, you can still glean something from my last post though. cool.gif

No worries. You bring up a good point. I will try to be more careful with my comments in the future to avoid any possible misunderstandings.

I'm sorry to hear about your parent's health issues, and wish them speedy recoveries!
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post #29 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 01:49 PM
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Thanks tend.. you’re very humble, way cool!

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post #30 of 80 Old 07-23-2013, 02:47 PM
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LOL.. That's funny.. I used to think the same thing though.. well untill I tried one. wink.gif The Bottom graph is from another member.




What can it put out at max power (before distortion)?
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