JTR Cap 2400 vs Chase SS-18.2P - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-02-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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With both being properly power, how close in performance are these two subs?

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post #2 of 16 Old 08-02-2013, 08:44 AM
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Different animals, ported sub will have the advantage at 15-30hz and the dual sealed will have more below and above.
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post #3 of 16 Old 08-02-2013, 09:57 AM
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I assume you're trying to compare with the passive Cap? Because Cap 2400 to me implies it'll be mated with the 2400W SpeakerPower amp w/ included DSP. That's the route I'd go, personally, if I had the money and wanted a ported sub, because it's just a stellar setup. Best ported sub on the market for the last several years, many say. It took the crown from the SVS PB-13Ultra.

MK pretty much covered the bases. Your comparison's not apples-to-apples, but yeah.

The better comparison would be the JTR Captivator S2 vs. the Chase SS-18.2P. The only problem there is that the CHT setup is entirely dependent on how you power & equalize it, whereas the JTR setup has all its muscle built in. If you were to compare those two solutions, the JTR Cap S2 vs. a fully powered CHT SS-18.2P setup, it's no contest - the JTR system is two classes above, and will have way more power on tap to give to much higher quality drivers. But, it should - it's in another price class.

If you want to consider some personal commentary about the ported Captivators, ask in the Captivator thread. I've included a few anecdotal notes below, too.

The guy who bought my passive 2011 JTR Captivator (the one with the huge 3-slug, 68lb motor - very similar to a the old Maelstrom-18 or the current Mach5 UXL-18) said it bests his dual 2012 CHT VS-18.1 at the same power levels. I think the biggest difference is the quality of drivers used, since building a simple sub ain't exactly rocket science. The CHT 18" drivers are, last I saw, a pretty cheap, low xmax, single-slug Eminence driver.

Also, when making a purchase like this, it's a good idea to consider the companies you'll be dealing with. There have been a few fairly large issues in the past with the customer service and demeanor of the owner of Chase Home Theater, and it resulted in quite a few bad experiences chronicled here on AVS (where they couldn't be edited after the fact, like on the owner does on the CHT forums).

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, Jeff Permanian of JTR is a world-class guy, lauded by pretty much everybody he's come into contact with here and in the pro audio scene. There have never been, to my knowledge, any complaints about his service, ever. Only complaints are his lead times to ship product - but being popular does that to a one man operation. wink.gif

Last thing, once you get it, it's likely your Captivator will hold its resale value much, much better, as long as you take care of the exterior. Mine sure did.
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post

I assume you're trying to compare with the passive Cap? Because Cap 2400 to me implies it'll be mated with the 2400W SpeakerPower amp w/ included DSP. That's the route I'd go, personally, if I had the money and wanted a ported sub, because it's just a stellar setup. Best ported sub on the market for the last several years, many say. It took the crown from the SVS PB-13Ultra.

MK pretty much covered the bases. Your comparison's not apples-to-apples, but yeah.

The better comparison would be the JTR Captivator S2 vs. the Chase SS-18.2P. The only problem there is that the CHT setup is entirely dependent on how you power & equalize it, whereas the JTR setup has all its muscle built in. If you were to compare those two solutions, the JTR Cap S2 vs. a fully powered CHT SS-18.2P setup, it's no contest - the JTR system is two classes above, and will have way more power on tap to give to much higher quality drivers. But, it should - it's in another price class.

If you want to consider some personal commentary about the ported Captivators, ask in the Captivator thread. I've included a few anecdotal notes below, too.

The guy who bought my passive 2011 JTR Captivator (the one with the huge 3-slug, 68lb motor - very similar to a the old Maelstrom-18 or the current Mach5 UXL-18) said it bests his dual 2012 CHT VS-18.1 at the same power levels. I think the biggest difference is the quality of drivers used, since building a simple sub ain't exactly rocket science. The CHT 18" drivers are, last I saw, a pretty cheap, low xmax, single-slug Eminence driver.

Also, when making a purchase like this, it's a good idea to consider the companies you'll be dealing with. There have been a few fairly large issues in the past with the customer service and demeanor of the owner of Chase Home Theater, and it resulted in quite a few bad experiences chronicled here on AVS (where they couldn't be edited after the fact, like on the owner does on the CHT forums).

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, Jeff Permanian of JTR is a world-class guy, lauded by pretty much everybody he's come into contact with here and in the pro audio scene. There have never been, to my knowledge, any complaints about his service, ever. Only complaints are his lead times to ship product - but being popular does that to a one man operation. wink.gif

Last thing, once you get it, it's likely your Captivator will hold its resale value much, much better, as long as you take care of the exterior. Mine sure did.
Great summary nube. +1
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post #5 of 16 Old 08-02-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys, thanks for your feedback. I have read several times now how stand up a guy Jeff is. I'm all about paying a bit more for better quality for components and customer service.
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Video: Samsung PN648500AF, Panasonic TC-P60GT50
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post #6 of 16 Old 08-03-2013, 06:38 AM
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The one post is correct that this is not a fair comparison. The Cap sells for $2500 and the passive version is $1500. The Chase 18.2 is priced at $950. The Chase sub is near the top when compared other competitors in the CEA database. The Cap is a great sub, no doubt but, as a Chase owner, the SS class subs are no slouch at their price point and being a sealed design:) Also, most subs with plate amp have a built in bass boot in the LF. Craig was helpful with setup and other questions about the subs. Someone comparing Chase with JTR or other top brands is a great complement.

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post #7 of 16 Old 08-03-2013, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

The one post is correct that this is not a fair comparison. The Cap sells for $2500 and the passive version is $1500. The Chase 18.2 is priced at $900. The Chase sub is near the top when compared other competitors
Actually the Chase 18.2 is $800 plus shipping and represents a tremendous value. All my interaction with the the owner of Chase has been great, I would not hesitate to buy from him.
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-03-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigotis View Post

Actually the Chase 18.2 is $800 plus shipping and represents a tremendous value. All my interaction with the the owner of Chase has been great, I would not hesitate to buy from him.

I can hit 120 and 110 db using REW test tones at 20 and 15 Hz respectivey at 3 1/2 meters to the LP in a large room using Radio Shack correction at -5 from reference level without the subs running hot. At the Chase subs price point they are not meant to compete with JTR, Seaton Submersive or other more exspensive subs.. They will not win a beauty contest either compared to JTR and some other brands but, they will perform very well.

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post #9 of 16 Old 08-03-2013, 01:16 PM
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I would agree with Nube except I have a different way at looking at things. I have owned both SS18.2s and Cap1000's. Jeff told me that the Cap1000 sounds exactly like the Cap2400 except that Cap 2400 will play louder. Before I get into any performance I would like to say that Both companies were awesome in their service. The Cap looks very cool as I have owned many subs and the Cap too me is a tiny ported 18! Yes, I said tiny because usually a ported 18 is much bigger so awesome job Jeff! I love the look. Now, I will talk about the CapS2 because it is a dual driver sealed sub like the SS18.2 so comparisons are easier to do. The SS18.2 has two 19mm x-max drivers and the Cap S2 has two 30mm drivers. So obviously the CapS2 will have more output. Think of the SS18.2 as a dual Dayton HO sub built for you. The CapS2 again is smaller and takes up less space and will rolloff the bottom end less for more output down low. The CapS2 has more expensive parts and amp. So the question is what are you looking for? The CapS2 cost $3000 and the SS18.2 cost $800 but add 2000 watt amp for $300 more so we are at $1100. So as you can see the CapS2 will outperform the SS18.2 and it should, the price difference is huge. Here is how I look at it and this is only if you have the room to do so! You can buy 3 SS18.2 with 3 EP-4000's for a little more than one CapS2 and you have much more capability than the single S2. With all the extra displacement you can account for the steeper rolloff and get one heck of a system. The big downer is that it takes up lots of room!

So in conclusion, if you have to just buy one sub then get the JTR but if you have the room for many and with the budget of one JTR go with the 3 SS18.2s! I have always been about performance for dollar but everything has to meet your goals.
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post #10 of 16 Old 08-03-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I would agree with Nube except I have a different way at looking at things. I have owned both SS18.2s and Cap1000's. Jeff told me that the Cap1000 sounds exactly like the Cap2400 except that Cap 2400 will play louder. Before I get into any performance I would like to say that Both companies were awesome in their service. The Cap looks very cool as I have owned many subs and the Cap too me is a tiny ported 18! Yes, I said tiny because usually a ported 18 is much bigger so awesome job Jeff! I love the look. Now, I will talk about the CapS2 because it is a dual driver sealed sub like the SS18.2 so comparisons are easier to do. The SS18.2 has two 19mm x-max drivers and the Cap S2 has two 30mm drivers. So obviously the CapS2 will have more output. Think of the SS18.2 as a dual Dayton HO sub built for you. The CapS2 again is smaller and takes up less space and will rolloff the bottom end less for more output down low. The CapS2 has more expensive parts and amp. So the question is what are you looking for? The CapS2 cost $3000 and the SS18.2 cost $800 but add 2000 watt amp for $300 more so we are at $1100. So as you can see the CapS2 will outperform the SS18.2 and it should, the price difference is huge. Here is how I look at it and this is only if you have the room to do so! You can buy 3 SS18.2 with 3 EP-4000's for a little more than one CapS2 and you have much more capability than the single S2. With all the extra displacement you can account for the steeper rolloff and get one heck of a system. The big downer is that it takes up lots of room!

So in conclusion, if you have to just buy one sub then get the JTR but if you have the room for many and with the budget of one JTR go with the 3 SS18.2s! I have always been about performance for dollar but everything has to meet your goals.

Correct me if I'm wrong MK, but your comparison between the typical xmax 18.2s vs the high xmax of S2 isn't quite apples to apples from an output standpoint. Sure the 18.2's will give you more overall output at higher frequencies, but the S2 will likely play the ultra low stuff cleaner (less THD) and louder.

 

Your multiple 13in eDs were made for bottom feeding, just like many higher xmax drivers. I believe you've said that between your multiple 13's and your multiple 18.2s, you had similar overall displacement with each, but your 13's were able to play louder in the lower frequencies, and with less overall THD compared to the 18.2s. This equated to more tactile feel for the really low frequencies, and something that you had yet to experience with your other systems.

 

It all depends on your goals...

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post #11 of 16 Old 08-03-2013, 07:15 PM
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Yes I already mentioned that. I said 6 18.2 drivers is about the same price as a single capS2 and that displacement is more so you could bring up the bottom to get that tactile feel. I said the eDs have more tactile feeling without EQ but with low end boost I could make every system the same sound and feeling. The lower x-max drivers or smaller drivers require more of them. I said the S2 had more output comparing one sub vs one sub and smaller to boot. Also it was referenced that a single Cap had more output than two VS 18.1's but that would mean that the Cap driver would also equal a LMS 5400 and I have my doubts. Comparing is great but I need to see the sweeps to confirm the power difference rather than what one feels or thinks. It one really feels that much stronger than the measurements should show it. I felt my eDs had more tactile feeling than all and it felt similar to the DTS-10's and measurements of THD and rolloff confirmed this. If I boost the eDs at all they win hands down because they rolloff less and play cleaner at higher spls at 10hz. Again my values could be off but not the difference in SPL's with 10% THD. Now I have 12 eDs and had 8 CHT drivers. I have more power and now as well but I have not been powered limited yet, just THD limited with sine waves. The only bottom I have ever heard were the DTS-10's playing WOTW foot stomps at 10 dBs over reference. I have never heard a bad noise from any other system at 10 dBs over reference.

Overall I do like higher Xmax bottom feeder drivers more than lower Xmax drivers so far. I am lookin to add to my existing drivers although I have plenty. I love the rolloff profile of my little guys in my room as it betters many monster drivers in their room. So they work for my room perfectly.
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post #12 of 16 Old 08-05-2013, 08:23 AM
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"Simplified Sub-Bass Output Comparison" --> (2) SS18.1 drivers = (1) Cap 2400 driver

I would recommend having multiple enclosures for modal smoothing, which ever direction you end up going. Chase 18" drivers are also more efficient (if it matters to you). Four SS18.1's can be run off a single 2400W amp for twice the output of a single Cap 2400 18". I currently have to run my entire home theater off a single 15amp circuit, and have yet to trip the breaker. FYI I am running (4) SS18.1 subs in my system and they sound very clean and hit hard.

Cheers, Joe
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-05-2013, 08:42 AM
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I've owned a 18.2 in the past, was a great sub and great value as far as ID companies go. I've also heard captivators as well which are an amazing sub. It really comes down to how much do you want to spend? The 18.2 is significantly cheaper, but also requires some EQ work.
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-05-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I've owned a 18.2 in the past, was a great sub and great value as far as ID companies go. I've also heard captivators as well which are an amazing sub. It really comes down to how much do you want to spend? The 18.2 is significantly cheaper, but also requires some EQ work.

Only on the bottom end and enough displacement can solve that. I do like having the bottom feeder subs though but they cost more. I think a VS 18.1 vs a Cap1000 would be a great comparison. The Cap1000 looks better because again I love the smaller design.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-06-2013, 07:43 AM
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Only on the bottom end and enough displacement can solve that. I do like having the bottom feeder subs though but they cost more. I think a VS 18.1 vs a Cap1000 would be a great comparison. The Cap1000 looks better because again I love the smaller design.

this is just the comparison I am doing when considering a second sub.

The savings on the vs 18.1 has me leaning that way mainly because it needs less amp to run it which adds another $100 or so in savings
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-06-2013, 07:55 AM
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At one time both used the same Dayton 1000 watt amp. Cap1000 came with settings already in place for a flat response at 1 meter while the VS 18.1 PEQ was used for help with LP response. The Cap1000 is half the size.
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