Help me decide which subs... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 02:59 AM - Thread Starter
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OK... Here's my story.. I was in the market just a few months ago to upgrade from my little dual SC II. But some legal stuffs was against me that I had to take care first. So I was kind of limited on amount to spend. Anyway I had 2 subs in mind. Dual SVS PB13U or SC Refs. A I was very close on getting the SVS until I got a great deal through design center at Magnolia on the Refs. With free shipping. So I ended up with that. Got it up and running and eq and calibrated them to my system. And about 5 dbs hot. The performance of these subs are good. It does pressurize my 20 x 18 x 10 room ok. But not much of tha punchy bass that I can feel. And when I played clips that goes down to single digits. I can't hardly feel anything.
The Refs are located on the each sides of the room. Where I got a better FR.
So had a talk to the wifey about adding subs up front. She agreed. So as long as I promised her this will be the last upgrade for awhaile. I've been reading all over this forum. Looking up on different subs. And had my eye on two subs. Either dual OS LFU or S2. And I also learned about the Submersive F2 master/ F2 slave combo. So I added those to my list. But submersive setup would be 2 grand more then the dual OS or S2. Because I would get X2 of the F2 S/M setup. Which brings it to a total of 8 15" drivers upfront.
So here's the update.. Earlier this evening I was talking with the wifey and showed her pictures of the OS ULF from JTR's forum. She definitely didn't like the looks of it eek.gif. I was like really you don't like it? She said for one its big and ugly. And if we end up buying another house you might not get the same size HT room to accommodate those. She made a point there. Ok the OS is out of the picture.So now it's either dual S2 or submersive f2 m/s X2 setup. Btw, she does like the looks of the submersives. And she knows it'll be 2 grand more.. Both must be outstanding subs. So as long it's what I'm looking for in a sub And DIY is not a option for me. I'm just to busy. Hmm.. I still might be able to change her mind about the OS wink.gif. Anyway, help me out here... Thanks..
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post #2 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 04:45 AM
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Dual Submersives is tough to beat, but does cost a pretty penny. Some other options to consider would be the Rythmik F25, PSA XV30, and SVS SB13-Ultra.
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

So now it's either dual S2 or submersive f2 m/s X2 setup. Btw, she does like the looks of the submersives. And she knows it'll be 2 grand more.
The performance delta between (4) 18's and (8) 15's driven by the same amps will be inconsequential. Either system would provide WAY more output than you'll ever use.

Therefore, to my mind, your decision really boils down to aesthetics vs. price. If your wife, (and you), prefer the looks of the F2's, and that preference is worth $2K, (actually it's more like $2.2K + the additional cost of shipping the extra 2 boxes), then go for the F2's. If you don't mind the rather utilitarian looks of the S2's, and you want to save some money, then go for the S2's. Either way, you'll end up with a killer subwoofer system.

Craig

PS. My first preference would be to get the F2's and then distribute them around the room rather than stack them in the front. 4 F2's will provide all the output you would ever need and distributing them around the room will provide much better frequency response.

PPS. Don't even think about trying to use the SC II's with either of the systems you're considering above. That would be foolhardy.

PPPS. Once you go to a multi-subwoofer system, you NEED measurement gear to optimize them. Consider getting an REW setup or OmniMic or XTZ.

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #4 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 07:42 AM
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How about a dual 18" Funk Audio custom? Here's a chart showing an in-room response of their standard 18.0 model:


A custom with dual TSAD18v1 drivers, 2400 W amp, in a chassis slightly scaled up in size compared to two of their standard 18.0 models (increased enclosure volume), should provide excellent response down to single digit territory and high SPL capability. If you let your wife choose the veneer & stain options, she should be happy too.
http://funkaudio.ca/18.0_Images.html
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post #5 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 07:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

And when I played clips that goes down to single digits. I can't hardly feel anything.

...snip...

Anyway, help me out here... Thanks..

This was asked by another but I'll ask anyways.....do you have room measuring capability? If you don't, before doing anything with additional subwoofers, you need to acquire room measuring capability and get your system dialed in as it reads like you have a suckout thing going on around the 60Hz octave.

If you haven't already, my recommendation would be to followup on earlier recommendations and acquire room measuring capability, dial in what you have and go from there. In the process, you'll learn a boatload about the capabilities of your current subwoofer system and you may find you don't need to buy additional subwoofers.

Either which way one chooses to go, without room measuring capability, one is only guessing and without room measuring capabilities, there is no hope of "EVER" getting the best out of the subwoofer system one has or plans to buy in the future. Without room measuring capability, there is no hope.

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post #6 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

The performance delta between (4) 18's and (8) 15's driven by the same amps will be inconsequential. Either system would provide WAY more output than you'll ever use.

Therefore, to my mind, your decision really boils down to aesthetics vs. price. If your wife, (and you), prefer the looks of the F2's, and that preference is worth $2K, (actually it's more like $2.2K + the additional cost of shipping the extra 2 boxes), then go for the F2's. If you don't mind the rather utilitarian looks of the S2's, and you want to save some money, then go for the S2's. Either way, you'll end up with a killer subwoofer system.

Craig

PS. My first preference would be to get the F2's and then distribute them around the room rather than stack them in the front. 4 F2's will provide all the output you would ever need and distributing them around the room will provide much better frequency response.

PPS. Don't even think about trying to use the SC II's with either of the systems you're considering above. That would be foolhardy.

PPPS. Once you go to a multi-subwoofer system, you NEED measurement gear to optimize them. Consider getting an REW setup or OmniMic or XTZ.




Craig... Btw, my dual subs now are SC Reference. The SC II'S was my older subs which I sold to my brother.
My problem now with this sub also involves the wifey. Since these subs are only 2-1/2 months old I can't get rid of them yet. She knows that I mostly sell A/V equipment to my brother or close friends for dirt cheap. Besides, that's my excuse for getting more subs. I told her we I needed more subs up the front stage...lol
I'm using a SMS-1 right now for my current subs. I'm gonna buy another one to for the new subs and run both SMS-1 units as master/ slave. Rob at the Velo thread, said that I could do all the settings first for the 2 different subs. Then daisy chain them together to adjust the EQ. I was also maybe considering minidsp. But it looks confusing to use.. Maybe I need to read more about it.
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post #7 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

Dual Submersives is tough to beat, but does cost a pretty penny. Some other options to consider would be the Rythmik F25, PSA XV30, and SVS SB13-Ultra.


Yea I looked into those. Then I narrowed it down to seaton or jtr's.
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

How about a dual 18" Funk Audio custom? Here's a chart showing an in-room response of their standard 18.0 model:


A custom with dual TSAD18v1 drivers, 2400 W amp, in a chassis slightly scaled up in size compared to two of their standard 18.0 models (increased enclosure volume), should provide excellent response down to single digit territory and high SPL capability. If you let your wife choose the veneer & stain options, she should be happy too.
http://funkaudio.ca/18.0_Images.html

What do you think about the 18.3. Tried to find some reviews about this subs. I had my eye on these too.
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 11:17 AM
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When I chatted up Nathan on a custom that I ordered recently, he mentioned that he could build an 18.3 variant (larger enclosure) that would have excellent response down to ~12 Hz, although not much below that. This would be a bit less expensive than the custom that I described, but wouldn't go quite as low in FR. If you outline your performance goals and how much you're willing to spend in an email to Nathan, he can provide a few options. Considering the cost of the multiple subs you were contemplating in your original post, I'm sure that Nathan could come up with something great for that amount. It's worth a few emails to find out anyway.
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 11:24 AM
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It's hard to find measurements of the SC Ref's on line. Here is someone's in-room graph:



Although DT spec's the sub at 11 Hz, (without a -3 dB point), it looks more like it's tuned around 24 Hz, with the typical 24 dB/octave roll-off. Given the fact that they're a vented design with a mid-20's roll-off, they will be tough to integrate with the sealed F2's or S2's, which will have the typical sealed 12 dB/octave roll-off. If you can't sell them due to marital politics, I would just leave them sit where they are with the power switches in the "Off" position until enough time has passed that you can sell them. smile.gif
Quote:
I'm using a SMS-1 right now for my current subs. I'm gonna buy another one to for the new subs and run both SMS-1 units as master/ slave. Rob at the Velo thread, said that I could do all the settings first for the 2 different subs. Then daisy chain them together to adjust the EQ.
I would not do it that way. What you *hear* is the combined response of all the subs, so what you want to EQ is the combined response of all the subs. If you EQ one set of subs with one SMS-1 and another set with another SMS-1, when you combine them, the combined response will, (most likely) no longer be flat. When you daisy chain 2 SMS-1's, all you get is more EQ bands. You may not need more bands, especially if you distribute the subs around the room. I suggest you wait to get the 2nd SMS-1 until after you get the new subs in your room and see if you need it.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #11 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

If you can't sell them due to marital politics, I would just leave them sit where they are with the power switches in the "Off" position until enough time has passed that you can sell them. smile.gif

Now that's funny!
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post #12 of 12 Old 08-04-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Now that's funny!


Nice one actually.. I like that idea..biggrin.gif
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