Sound&Vision Magazine Tests Five ~$800 Subs Including PSA XV15 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 72 Old 08-26-2013, 12:56 PM
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So you are saying you can tell a difference between 10% and 20% 2nd order THD? When I played a 15hz test tone at 110db, I herd nothing but the walls and cabinets in the house pulsating, the subs were quiet...I turned it up to 115db still no audible change in the subs, but when I turned it up from there the subs did not raise the spl levels and they started to make audible noises that sounded like distortion. I am not arguing with you, but I am just trying to figure out why you specify 10% thd in lower order harmonics is clean bass? Why does cea-2010 allow such higher low order thd levels?
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post #62 of 72 Old 08-26-2013, 01:54 PM
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Sorry, but I measured at much higher levels so at the point of when I reach 10% THD everything sound great and depending on the drivers, 12% THD sound great on some and bad on others. From all the subjective comments and then verified by Ricci the PSA sub has good sounding THD so you can not tell it is THD to begin with. Whether one can live with knowing it is THD or not is up to them. The key is to have enough subs not to reach their THD limits so it won't matter. This is why I said pick which ever looks better or cheaper.
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post #63 of 72 Old 08-26-2013, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Sorry, but I measured at much higher levels so at the point of when I reach 10% THD everything sound great and depending on the drivers, 12% THD sound great on some and bad on others. From all the subjective comments and then verified by Ricci the PSA sub has good sounding THD so you can not tell it is THD to begin with. Whether one can live with knowing it is THD or not is up to them. The key is to have enough subs not to reach their THD limits so it won't matter. This is why I said pick which ever looks better or cheaper.

Ok...I was just curious because with my Polk 505's If I played a 15hz test tone they would have sound like a 30hz test tone, which obviously was distortion. The XV15's do not do that so I was just curious. I know you have taken lots of measurements with various setups so that's why I asked. I appreciate the feedback!! smile.gif
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post #64 of 72 Old 08-26-2013, 03:06 PM
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I use 10% because that is where some subs start to sound bad. Just being safe. I played my eD's with 12%THD at 10hz and it was awesome! I could not do that with other subs which start to sound bad at 10%. My F-20's also sound very good at 15% THD. I have a hard time believing people say that their sub sound much tighter than another unless they were over driving the other sub.

I just noticed something, I see that the sweeps were at different levels. What people are noticing is that the PSA sub is clean from 25-80hz with a 110 dBs sweep. The SVS stays clean with a 105 dBs sweep and if you notice the 105 dB sweep of the PSA it is just as clean as the SVS within a range where music would be played. The THD stuff is for the low end and in a room is where the THD gets knocked down, the low stuff. I take it the SVS will not play louder and just limit so this is where the PSA has the advantage.
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post #65 of 72 Old 09-05-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The review of the five $800 subs is up at Sound&Vision, here:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-800-subwoofers
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post #66 of 72 Old 09-20-2013, 10:18 PM
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The review of the five $800 subs is up at Sound&Vision, here:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-800-subwoofers

This link did not work for me. I even tried going to their site and could not find it. Thanks.

Matt
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post #67 of 72 Old 09-21-2013, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mdanderson View Post

This link did not work for me. I even tried going to their site and could not find it. Thanks.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-800-subwoofers
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post #68 of 72 Old 09-21-2013, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdanderson View Post

This link did not work for me. I even tried going to their site and could not find it. Thanks.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-800-subwoofers

If you get it to work, it turns out to have close to zero content.
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post #69 of 72 Old 09-21-2013, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

So you are saying you can tell a difference between 10% and 20% 2nd order THD? When I played a 15hz test tone at 110db, I herd nothing but the walls and cabinets in the house pulsating, the subs were quiet...I turned it up to 115db still no audible change in the subs, but when I turned it up from there the subs did not raise the spl levels and they started to make audible noises that sounded like distortion. I am not arguing with you, but I am just trying to figure out why you specify 10% thd in lower order harmonics is clean bass? Why does cea-2010 allow such higher low order thd levels?

It is all about the audibility of distortion.

One factoid - most bass musical instruments produce more low order harmonics than fundamentals. Since the harmonics are also quite a bit more audible than the fundamentals, that is most of what you hear.

So adding even more low order harmonics doesn't make that much change to what you hear, since there is already so much of them present in the recording. The same is generally true of SFX in movies.

In contrast high order harmonics stick out like sore thumbs.

Most distortion in a well made subwoofer driver is due to the active region of the voice coil moving out of the magnet's active gap. Whether the magnetism in the gap falls off slowly or rapidly is up to the designer. The more rapidly the magnetism in the gap falls off, the more higher order distortion is generated. If the cone hits a mechanical limit, then you obtain a similar effect.
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post #70 of 72 Old 09-21-2013, 12:01 PM
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Thanks for the link. Like arnyk said, there should be more pages.

Matt
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post #71 of 72 Old 09-21-2013, 12:14 PM
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Links to each sub review can be found here: http://www.soundandvision.com/category/subwoofer-reviews.
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post #72 of 72 Old 09-21-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cvinfig View Post

Links to each sub review can be found here: http://www.soundandvision.com/category/subwoofer-reviews.

Thanks so much. That did the trick.

Matt
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