Test of the Top of the Line M&K DXD 12012 Sub up at Sound&Vision magazine - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 81 Old 08-19-2013, 10:36 PM
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Some of us consider smarmy obfuscation rude.

I know how the DXD works: it's the same as any other push pull driver arrangement, and because the drivers are so closely placed in terms of wavelength, it doesn't really matter which side(s) the drivers are placed on. You could mount them both on the front panel wired the same and it would not affect the performance a jot (within a HT sub's range). I saw a similar arrangement for the first time in the 70's and I used the same in some of my last PA subs so I have more than a little experience with the arrangement.

You are the one who made the claim about it changing the polar pattern, you obviously don't understand the physics of how speakers work.
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post #62 of 81 Old 08-19-2013, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Some of us consider smarmy obfuscation rude.

I know how the DXD works: it's the same as any other push pull driver arrangement, and because the drivers are so closely placed in terms of wavelength, it doesn't really matter which side(s) the drivers are placed on. You could mount them both on the front panel wired the same and it would not affect the performance a jot (within a HT sub's range). I saw a similar arrangement for the first time in the 70's and I used the same in some of my last PA subs so I have more than a little experience with the arrangement.

You are the one who made the claim about it changing the polar pattern, you obviously don't understand the physics of how speakers work.

Ok! I guess you still don't understand the question I posted , which Bill already answered by the way, you and whoever the those are in your "some of us consider smarmy obfuscation rude", statement may continue doing what ever its is you do wink.gif
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post #63 of 81 Old 08-19-2013, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Ok! I guess you still don't understand the question I posted , which Bill already answered by the way
I've read Bill's earlier posts before, and I agree with them, and even you then agreed with him. So why do you keep rabbitting on about how your speakers magically change the polar pattern because the drivers are mounted on 2 adjacent sides (wrt ULF/LF)? They simply do not; they are omni.
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post #64 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I've read Bill's earlier posts before, and I agree with them, and even you then agreed with him. So why do you keep rabbitting on about how your speakers magically change the polar pattern because the drivers are mounted on 2 adjacent sides (wrt ULF/LF)? They simply do not; they are omni.

That second post was describing the differences to Mktheater between the MX5000 which I knew he owned, as for as the question on Omni , that's understood and I agreed with Bill as well and moved on, if you read the post entirely you would've noticed my question to him. Do you thrive on contention ? what's the inquisition all about ?, I'm not sure what your wanting from me as the thread went very good once a few sideliners that only seem to want to bash someone over the head with there views or lack thereof, instead of having a good time discussing this hobby I'm sure you love as much as I do. so what is it exactly?
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post #65 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jonesjgqg View Post

This sub is WAY overpriced for what you get.

How do you know that? have you heard it? I thought I got a pretty good deal on it. in fact I plan on getting a second! eek.gif why because it accomplished what I looking for in a sub and exceeding my expectations by a long shot! If it didn't I would've sent it back, got my money and went with the other options I had on the table but this wasn't necessary, that is for me atleast. wink.gif
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post #66 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 07:39 AM
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What happens if I turned my MX-5000 side ways with the forward woofer now facing side ways? These are sealed subs so I am not sure if that slot really does anything. I would think the real differences are in the amps, drivers, and stacking configuration.
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post #67 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

What happens if I turned my MX-5000 side ways with the forward woofer now facing side ways?
Very little. The altered distance from the radiating plane to the walls would affect room modes, but since the change in distance is so slight compared to the wavelengths involved it would only move them a matter of a few Hz. You'd only see a substantial difference in response if the distance to the nearer side wall was made small enough to change the tuning.

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post #68 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Very little. The altered distance from the radiating plane to the walls would affect room modes, but since the change in distance is so slight compared to the wavelengths involved it would only move them a matter of a few Hz. You'd only see a substantial difference in response if the distance to the nearer side wall was made small enough to change the tuning.

I know, I was letting him know that the designs are the same except the driver is on the side so all one has to do is turn the MX-5000 side ways. Unless the bottom woofer is facing a different direction which will make no difference anyways.
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post #69 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 11:51 AM
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You guys do realize I accepted your explanations on this smile.gif and had no more questions regarding it, the late posters didn't read carefully enough and I guess wanted to make sure I got the point I wasted my money! but I'm glad to see you guys taking an interest and perhaps won't pass on a chance to hear one wink.gif
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post #70 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 12:50 PM
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I do not think you wasted your money at all. I do think you bought into some marketing hype...thats ok we all have. the dxd is not a bad sub, its just a bit pricey for what you get. That does not mean the world is coming to end or you were ripped off. I do think what drug this thread on was your denial in the beginning of the thread about the special flux capacitor bass radiation technology. smile.gif

The bottom line is enjoy your sub, I am sure it has plenty of output. We here at AVS get caught up bench racing, but hey thats what this site is for.
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post #71 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

You guys do realize I accepted your explanations on this smile.gif and had no more questions regarding it, the late posters didn't read carefully enough and I guess wanted to make sure I got the point I wasted my money! but I'm glad to see you guys taking an interest and perhaps won't pass on a chance to hear one wink.gif


Sorry Audiofan if my comments came off a bit harsh and please don't take it personally. This is AVS where we dissect and tear apart EVERY piece of gear (check out the projector forum sometime! eek.gif ) to an extreme degree. I think you are a nice guy and hope we are still buds. smile.gif See you in the bass thread.

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post #72 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I do not think you wasted your money at all. I do think you bought into some marketing hype...thats ok we all have. the dxd is not a bad sub, its just a bit pricey for what you get. That does not mean the world is coming to end or you were ripped off. I do think what drug this thread on was your denial in the beginning of the thread about the special flux capacitor bass radiation technology. smile.gif

The bottom line is enjoy your sub, I am sure it has plenty of output. We here at AVS get caught up bench racing, but hey thats what this site is for.

It wasn't the hype that sold me on the sub and here's how I got down to my decision , I was in need of a sub , as my M&K MX150 was 14 years old along with some other gear that time had moved on from needed replacing. I had the funds to upgrade it and a few other things to catch up with the times. For sub choices I narrowed it down to the SVS SB13 ultra ( possibly two) or Seaton SubM one or two of the Rythmik was also indeed a strong contender. Now as a few things where on the table including a front Projector finally but it would have chewed up the budget so i bought 2 more bulbs for my Mitsubishi 73738 dlp and decided to keep around a bit more. so my sub budget was down a bit to a possible 3k max and that was stretching it as it always happens. Now the dual SVS option put me over the top a bit and dual Rythmiks were doable, but where things got interesting as I had heard Ken would be getting back in the business again a few years back I kept an eye out to see what would happen. my priorities are high for music and movies which is why the three subs mentioned above were selected and why I kept the older M&K around as long as I did knowing it had shortcomings in the deepest bass regions . So here's what happened i heard about a trade in program KK had going for M&K subs! this sweetened the deal i looked at the specs for the sub not the hype which I could care less about it has no effect on me as I'm a salesman myself. So the price I paid out of pocket for my sub was just under $1900 shipped! I bet it makes a little more sense now ! If I had to pay full retail I'd most likely have the Seaton, but they made me an offer I couldn't refuse as I'm a bit of a cheap skate biggrin.gif but here's the kicker and why I post enthusiastic about the sub ! knowing what I know now and living with it for 8 months and if one were to ask me if its worth the price at full retail? my answer would be yes. smile.gif
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post #73 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Sorry Audiofan if my comments came off a bit harsh and please don't take it personally. This is AVS where we dissect and tear apart EVERY piece of gear (check out the projector forum sometime! eek.gif ) to an extreme degree. I think you are a nice guy and hope we are still buds. smile.gif See you in the bass thread.

No need for apologies Toe this is why I love AVS as I'm a bit of a hybrid ( geek & cool) and love the vast knowledge here when you get people talking! when I first joined I got my first taste and backed away a bit as i knew one better know a bit of what they're talking about, but stuck around because I knew what to expect! and that should tell you something about me and if I post something, you better know I'm posting it for good reason and not just blowing smoke wink.gif besides a little prodding gets the discussion going.
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post #74 of 81 Old 08-20-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

It wasn't the hype that sold me on the sub and here's how I got down to my decision , I was in need of a sub , as my M&K MX150 was 14 years old along with some other gear that time had moved on from needed replacing. I had the funds to upgrade it and a few other things to catch up with the times. For sub choices I narrowed it down to the SVS SB13 ultra ( possibly two) or Seaton SubM one or two of the Rythmik was also indeed a strong contender. Now as a few things where on the table including a front Projector finally but it would have chewed up the budget so i bought 2 more bulbs for my Mitsubishi 73738 dlp and decided to keep around a bit more. so my sub budget was down a bit to a possible 3k max and that was stretching it as it always happens. Now the dual SVS option put me over the top a bit and dual Rythmiks were doable, but where things got interesting as I had heard Ken would be getting back in the business again a few years back I kept an eye out to see what would happen. my priorities are high for music and movies which is why the three subs mentioned above were selected and why I kept the older M&K around as long as I did knowing it had shortcomings in the deepest bass regions . So here's what happened i heard about a trade in program KK had going for M&K subs! this sweetened the deal i looked at the specs for the sub not the hype which I could care less about it has no effect on me as I'm a salesman myself. So the price I paid out of pocket for my sub was just under $1900 shipped! I bet it makes a little more sense now ! If I had to pay full retail I'd most likely have the Seaton, but they made me an offer I couldn't refuse as I'm a bit of a cheap skate biggrin.gif but here's the kicker and why I post enthusiastic about the sub ! knowing what I know now and living with it for 8 months and if one were to ask me if its worth the price at full retail? my answer would be yes. smile.gif

1900.00 shipped is a much better price...like I said before its a good sub, enjoy it!
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post #75 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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The trade-in program is interesting. It seems like Ken gave you $1,100 off of MSRP because you traded in a 14 year old M&K MX 150.

PLease elaborate on what you traded in. If it was more than the 14 year old M&K 150, please tell us what else you traded in.

As basshead81 said, it is a good sub, enjoy it.
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post #76 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

The trade-in program is interesting. It seems like Ken gave you $1,100 off of MSRP because you traded in a 14 year old M&K MX 150.

PLease elaborate on what you traded in. If it was more than the 14 year old M&K 150, please tell us what else you traded in.

As basshead81 said, it is a good sub, enjoy it.

There was nothing else, it was in working order and the drivers still looked new ! It was really a simple process. I wanted something that would last just as long which did have some influence on my overall decision !
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post #77 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

There was nothing else, it was in working order and the drivers still looked new ! It was really a simple process. I wanted something that would last just as long which did have some influence on my overall decision !

Too bad more (sub) companies don't accept trade-ins. smile.gif
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post #78 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 02:49 PM
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Too bad more (sub) companies don't accept trade-ins. smile.gif

Would make this hobby more interesting!
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post #79 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 06:24 PM
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Now for $1999 the sub is much better. It is now cheaper than a Submersive, triax, and Caps2. It makes much more sense. You did good Audiofan1. However, I am a DIY guy so for the same price I am building something else entirely.
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post #80 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 07:22 PM
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From 3000 to 1999 now that makes a sense, I guess the sub did not get much sales at the 3000 mark, hence the trade in program to increase sales, imagine the profit margin at 3000 smile.gif

From the Website

We are very pleased to announce our new Competitive Upgrade Program, available only for a limited time. We want everyone to be able to experience the awesome high impact bass that only the new KEN KREISEL Push-Pull-Pulsar subwoofers can produce and to do so we are now offering a generous trade-in allowance for your current subwoofer, regardless of its make and model, towards the purchase of one of our new subwoofer(s). Customers are responsible for all shipping fees to deliver their trade-in subwoofer to our warehouse in Torrance, CA USA. The trade in promotion applies to customers who reside in the USA only.
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post #81 of 81 Old 08-22-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by qguy View Post

From 3000 to 1999 now that makes a sense, I guess the sub did not get much sales at the 3000 mark, hence the trade in program to increase sales, imagine the profit margin at 3000 smile.gif

From the Website

We are very pleased to announce our new Competitive Upgrade Program, available only for a limited time. We want everyone to be able to experience the awesome high impact bass that only the new KEN KREISEL Push-Pull-Pulsar subwoofers can produce and to do so we are now offering a generous trade-in allowance for your current subwoofer, regardless of its make and model, towards the purchase of one of our new subwoofer(s). Customers are responsible for all shipping fees to deliver their trade-in subwoofer to our warehouse in Torrance, CA USA. The trade in promotion applies to customers who reside in the USA only.

The trade has been going for awhile and has been there since they started selling for M&K owners and now extended to all subs, they really just got released only late last year. I got mine in Dec 2012 and the speaker lineup just a month or two ago. Its just the way business is these days and its a good time for us. Now after having it and living with it I can tell you its not hype and I will be adding a second even at full retail biggrin.gif Now you can call me a fool.
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