LARGE setting for my front speakers. Bass is smoother at low volume. Why ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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So im using my front speakers as LARGE setting until i buy a decent bigger subwoofer because my current one is an 8''subwoofer and i will be missing on alot of bass when i use it. So for now , im using my front tower speakers (jamo s608) as large because of the 10'' woofers with them. The bass sounds incredible when seating at the right position and not against the rear wall.

I noticed that the bass is smoother when watching movies at low volumes. I re-calibrated my tone controls from the AVR to -2 for treble and -2 for bass.

Other speakers are set to small with 80hz crossover.

Why is bass smoother at lower volumes ?
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

Why is bass smoother at lower volumes ?

Because the reinforcement/cancellation issues are not at their greatest when the volume is turned down because by turning the volume down, the degree of reinforcement and cancellation are reduced according to how much you turn the volume down; reduced energy distribution.

With all due respect, the Jamo s608 speakers, even with their 10" woofers, are not subwoofer capable.

And so you don't think I'm being a jerk, my comment isn't personal as our mains have two 10" woofers in each cabinet and they're not even close to being "subwoofer" capable.

The dissatisfaction will come when you're able to measure your room's acoustical response and you're able to, to the best you're able, fix all that your missing.

What subwoofer are you looking at?

It's a long, and winding road but the guys here will stick with you the whole way.
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post #3 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Because the reinforcement/cancellation issues are not at their greatest when the volume is turned down because by turning the volume down, the degree of reinforcement and cancellation are reduced according to how much you turn the volume down; reduced energy distribution.

With all due respect, the Jamo s608 speakers, even with their 10" woofers, are not subwoofer capable.

And so you don't think I'm being a jerk, my comment isn't personal as our mains have two 10" woofers in each cabinet and they're not even close to being "subwoofer" capable.

The dissatisfaction will come when you're able to measure your room's acoustical response and you're able to fix all that your missing.

It's a long, and winding road but the guys here will stick with you the whole way.

What do you mean ? With the subwoofer on and fronts set to small , i do not get that bass shake feeling. Its only a 8'' subwoofer. With the fronts set to large , the bass is very dynamic and it shakes the floor . My room is small to medium sized room.
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post #4 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

What do you mean ? With the subwoofer on and fronts set to small , i do not get that bass shake feeling. Its only a 8'' subwoofer. With the fronts set to large , the bass is very dynamic and it shakes the floor . My room is small to medium sized room.

The Jamo s608 speakers (very nice speakers) are limited to 37Hz. You're wanting/needing to go sub-20Hz. As to your system settings, since I'm not knowledgeable about your system, I haven't any understanding what is happening.

As to large and small speaker setting, my understanding, setting the speakers to large, allows bass to go to the speakers and the subwoofer channel. Dollar to doughnuts, your woofers are more cable then you subwoofer and when you have the speakers set to large, you get double bass through the speakers and the subwoofer.

What subwoofer are you using?

What are the measurements of your room and do you have openings to other rooms? And if you do, how much cubic footage (cubic meter) are all the interconnected rooms when put totaled together?

The minimum goal of a subwoofer system is to create sound waves that are sub-20Hz.
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:27 AM
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your main speakers are helping smooth out the bass response above 30hz and are making up for what the 8" sub lacks in a nut shell.
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post #6 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

The Jamo s608 speakers (very nice speakers) are limited to 37Hz. You're wanting/needing to go sub-20Hz. As to your system settings, since I'm not knowledgeable about your system, I haven't any understanding what is happening.

As to large and small speaker setting, my understanding, setting the speakers to large, allows bass to go to the speakers and the subwoofer channel. Dollar to doughnuts, your woofers are more cable then you subwoofer and when you have the speakers set to large, you get double bass through the speakers and the subwoofer.

What subwoofer are you using?

What are the measurements of your room and do you have openings to other rooms? And if you do, how much cubic footage (cubic meter) are all the interconnected rooms when put totaled together?

The minimum goal of a subwoofer system is to create sound waves that are sub-20Hz.

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

your main speakers are helping smooth out the bass response above 30hz and are making up for what the 8" sub lacks in a nut shell.

Im turning off my subwoofer so the bass is only coming out from the woofers of my front speakers. Fronts - large , center and rears small with 80hz crossover. Double bass is off as there is no point of using my subwoofer.The subwoofer is Jamo sub 250.
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post


Im turning off my subwoofer so the bass is only coming out from the woofers of my front speakers. Fronts - large , center and rears small with 80hz crossover. Double bass is off as there is no point of using my subwoofer.The subwoofer is Jamo sub 250.

Without a subwoofer, there's no point in setting crossovers to 80Hz as now you're simply removing energy from the room. The Jamo, sub 250 is more capable then your mains. More than likely, the placement of the subwoofer is creating a null (cancellation) in the sound waves or the speaker placement is creating a situation where the lower reproduced sound waves are being reinforced.

Think of two pebbles, simultaneously splashing in a mirror smooth body of water and when the ripples meet, they cancel each other out and the rest of the undisturbed ripples continue to radiate out from the original splash points.

What surrounds are you using? What receiver are you using?

A recommendation would be to Google "REW," download a freeware copy, obtain a sound meter, a measuring microphone and learn about room measurements so you can see the interaction of the sound waves in your listening venue. Without doing so, it's not possible to fully appreciate, acoustically, what's happening in your room.
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post #8 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Without a subwoofer, there's no point in setting crossovers to 80Hz as now you're simply removing energy from the room. The Jamo, sub 250 is more capable then your mains. More than likely, the placement of the subwoofer is creating a null (cancellation) in the sound waves.

Think of two pebbles, simultaneously splashing in a mirror smooth body of water and when the ripples meet, they cancel each other out and the rest of the undisturbed ripples continue to radiate out from the original splash points.

What surrounds are you using? What receiver are you using?

Why is my sub more capable than my two 10'' woofers ? Receiver is onkyo tx sr 308 and rears jamo s602.

As for me to get strong bass from my subwoofer as im getting from my fronts , i need to turn up the gain on the back of the sub to 12 o'clock or more , but then it starts to rumble a bit. Its in the front left corner and i am not able to change its position because my room is pretty small sized and alot of furniture.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:48 AM
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As to large and small speaker setting, my understanding, setting the speakers to large, allows bass to go to the speakers and the subwoofer channel. Dollar to doughnuts, your woofers are more cable then you subwoofer and when you have the speakers set to large, you get double bass through the speakers and the subwoofer.

Partially true. Sub + mains (set as Large) only play bass together if subwoofer mode is set to Double Bass (Onkyo) or LFE+main (Denon).

Anyway, subwoofer is all about moving lots and lots of air. The 10 inch woofers in your mains combined offer larger surface area compared to your 8" dedicated sub alone and can move comparatively more air. Hence the smoother bass when set as large till their -3dB point.

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Originally Posted by dazkyl View Post

Why is my sub more capable than my two 10'' woofers ? Receiver is onkyo tx sr 308 and rears jamo s602.

I posted Jamo links to your speakers and your subwoofer which list the reproduction capabilities of each system. The subwoofer is 30Hz capable and the mains are 37Hz capable.

Your surrounds are Jamo, s602 and they're 80Hz capable. An 80Hz crossover won't have much if any affect on their output as their output is already limited. Without a decent subwoofer, your totally dependent on your subwoofer and your mains.

What subwoofer are you looking to buy?
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post #11 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I posted Jamo links to your speakers and your subwoofer which list the reproduction capabilities of each system. The subwoofer is 30Hz capable and the mains are 37Hz capable.

Your surrounds are Jamo, s602 and they're 80Hz capable. An 80Hz crossover won't have much if any affect on their output as their output is already limited. Without a decent subwoofer, your totally dependent on your subwoofer and your mains.

What subwoofer are you looking to buy?

I was thinking about buying the Klipsch rw-12 , and maybe add a second one later one , but for now i think i will be sticking with the fronts set to large .
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post #12 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Partially true. Sub + mains (set as Large) only play bass together if subwoofer mode is set to Double Bass (Onkyo) or LFE+main (Denon).

Anyway, subwoofer is all about moving lots and lots of air. The 10 inch woofers in your mains combined offer larger surface area compared to your 8" dedicated sub alone and can move comparatively more air. Hence the smoother bass when set as large till their -3dB point.

So , i should stick with fronts set to large and subwoofer off right ?
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post #13 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:53 AM
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So , i should stick with fronts set to large and subwoofer off right ?

Yes dear. An 8" subwoofer will distort badly even 40Hz and below if pushed hard.

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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Sub + mains (set as Large) only play bass together if subwoofer mode is set to Double Bass (Onkyo) or (LFE+main).

I think I've got it; LFE vs LFE+main....mains set to large. Our AVR is set to LFE (mains set to small) as "double bass" makes our room measurement graphs go all wonky; not flat.
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post #15 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Yes dear. An 8" subwoofer will distort badly even 40Hz and below if pushed hard.

Fair enough smile.gif I also calibrated the tone controls for bass and treble to -2 for both. I noticed the bass is smoother at -2dB than at 0dB. Is this okay?
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post #16 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 07:00 AM
 
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Fair enough smile.gif I also calibrated the tone controls for bass and treble to -2 for both. I noticed the bass is smoother at -2dB than at 0dB. Is this okay?

Anything is good that reduces aberrations in the frequency response.

The Klipsch, RW12d is an excellent, for the price, subwoofer. Word. The more subwoofers the better. Currently we're running three RW-12d's to help smooth out the room's acoustical response.

When you can, download a freeware copy of "REW." Get a basic sound meter with a microphone out so you can use it as a measuring microphone. You'll be surprised what REW shows you about your room's acoustics.

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post #17 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 07:16 AM
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Our AVR is set to LFE (mains set to small) as "double bass" makes our room measurement graphs go all wonky; not flat.

Same here. I wouldn't use double bass or lfe+main if mains are set to large. Also, I wouldn't set my mains to large unless they are capable down to 20Hz. But in the specific case of OP, he is better off running his mains as large coz of less capable sub.

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Your surrounds are Jamo, s602 and they're 80Hz capable. An 80Hz crossover won't have much if any affect on their output as their output is already limited. Without a decent subwoofer, your totally dependent on your subwoofer and your mains.

When sub is set to none; mains default to Large and the bass from all other speakers set as small will be redirected to mains including the LFE.

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post #19 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 07:31 AM
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Subwoofers are a journey, not a destination.

+1

One can never get enough bass

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post #20 of 20 Old 08-19-2013, 07:34 AM
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I noticed the bass is smoother at -2dB than at 0dB. Is this okay?

It's all up to you. I would not change the tone control and let it be at 00. However, -ve is better as opposed to even 1 dB of +ve gain for bass control.

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